Ruined even further

Sorry, it's not just raping my childhood, it's destroying art and history. As a filmmaker, I now view a man I once respected with shame. The new films are missing the magic, character and wonder of the OT. And by the time GL is done, there will be no magic left.

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30 years from now Lucas will still be remembered, so will Star Wars and it's *magic*, yes, including the prequel trilogy. And i will be there to see it. Just because the kids in the 90's are growing up fantasizing about piloting a pod racer instead of an X-Wing in the Death Star Trench it doesn't mean it's any less "wonderous".

Sorry, it's not just raping my childhood, it's destroying art and history. As a filmmaker, I now view a man I once respected with shame. The new films are missing the magic, character and wonder of the OT. And by the time GL is done, there will be no magic left.

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30 years from now Lucas will still be remembered, so will Star Wars and it's *magic*, yes, including the prequel trilogy. And i will be there to see it. Just because the kids in the 90's are growing up fantasizing about piloting a pod racer instead of an X-Wing in the Death Star Trench it doesn't mean it's any less "wonderous".

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OH...except...that it is...muuuuuch less wonderous...that is.

Sorry, as a filmmaker and storyteller, trust me...the pre-quels are lackluster, badly written, and poorly directed pale imitations of the OT.

In the future the SW films will more than likely be remembered as the great story that was destroyed by most and as a joke by others.

But like ST I'm sure there will be some die-hards that will blindly hold on to crap.

CE

Well... i've been enjoying DS9 lately, so you may have a point. I just happened to watch The Phantom Menace first and that's what set my standards as to what to expect from Star Wars.

As for your boasting as a filmmaker... well, good luck in creating a space opera loved by millions and making yourself stinking rich by selling stupid toys four times their real price...

I for one will be enjoying the Confederacy getting it's ass kicked in the sea and space battles of Episode III, even if others decide stay at home. Good for me.

I for one will be enjoying the Confederacy getting it's ass kicked in the sea and space battles of Episode III, even if others decide stay at home. Good for me.

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There's very little chance people will stay home. I'll be there for sure. You do point out that we are all a product of our time. Your first impressions were of Ep I. You enjoyed it. Good for you and all of those that had their first taste of that universe through that movie.

I just happened to watch The Phantom Menace first and that's what set my standards as to what to expect from Star Wars.

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That explains a lot.

As for your boasting as a filmmaker... well, good luck in creating a space opera loved by millions and making yourself stinking rich by selling stupid toys four times their real price...

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Why...thank you...nice to know I already have fans!

I for one will be enjoying the Confederacy getting it's ass kicked in the sea and space battles of Episode III, even if others decide stay at home. Good for me.

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Never said I wouldn't see it, if for no other reason than to learn more about what not to do in film. I will see it...well...out of loyalty to that childhood wonder I held when watching the first three films. I will see it...to say I've watched them all.

I will most likely also rag the shit out of it upon leaving the theatre. While, I will do my utmost to keep an open and fair mind, I will freely admit that my expectations are not far above a sesspool.

CE

Hey, now. No reason to just agree to disagee. Some people do like and some don't like the new Star Wars trilogy. I know people of all ages who love the new trilogy, though. It isn't just the young.

Personally, I'll wait and rent it on Netflix.

But like ST I'm sure there will be some die-hards that will blindly hold on to crap.

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Just because I actually really like the prequels does not mean that I'm blind in any way. My preferences are what enable me to like them, not mindless following. And I find it rather insulting to be tagged blind just because I enjoy them.

I grew up watching tapes and tv broadcasts of the original trilogy (I was just a wee bit too young to see them in the theaters). The annual broadcast of ANH when I was young was something I often enjoyed. So, for me, it's not that my preferences were formed by seeing the prequels before the original trilogy.

..(snip)I'm now offically a jaded ex-lucas fanboy, and regretting my handle....

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Yes, nice new signature there.

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Done!

And despite my new offical status, i'll still EP3 in the cinema. I've heard very cool things about.

Not sure about these DVD's though...

Well... i've been enjoying DS9 lately, so you may have a point. I just happened to watch The Phantom Menace first and that's what set my standards as to what to expect from Star Wars.

As for your boasting as a filmmaker... well, good luck in creating a space opera loved by millions and making yourself stinking rich by selling stupid toys four times their real price...

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I'm with you, Fas... I think people expect too much out of SW films, especially when comparing them to the OT, which most of us first saw as children.

Show a kid Blade Runner, 2001: A Space Odyssey, or Dune — three top classics of the sci-fi genre. Then show him Star Wars, and ask him which he liked the best.

The SW OT itself is no shining beacon of cinematic or literary accomplishment, after all. In the Sci-Fi world, it's huge, I'm the first to admit and admire that, and I've totally been sucked into the SW universe. Lucas has mastered the art of promotion & advertisement, has told a good story, and created a fictional universe that rivals that of Trek and B5 in terms of scale, time, and complexity. The SW fan base is enormous, and I gladly consider myself a part of it, but I also recognize that as far as really GOOD filmmaking goes, SW leaves a lot to be desired. Therefore I don't expect a lot from them — just clean, fun entertainment. I reserve words like "sesspool" for films like Gigli.

When posting to this board, I have made no secret of my disappointment with the prequel trilogy. However, I do think this current debate is slightly missing the point.

The fact that I dislike the new films is my problem, no one else's - films will always be subjective, some (like Fas) enjoy the PT, I dont. C'est la vie.

What makes me angry is George Lucas' constant tinkering with the films that I do like. I have seen the 20th anniversary "special editions" a couple of times now and I can honestly say that I didn't think any of the "improvements" actually improved the film and in many cases the films suffered because of them.

This from someone who was actually quite excited about the prospect of the SEs before release.

A point was made early in this thread suggesting that young people today would consider the SFX of the OT to be laughable, and so it was only right that they be updated.

Poppycock.

I think most young people would be insulted by the notion that they can't understand and differentiate between films made using technology representing the State of the Art in 1999-2005, and films made using technology representing the State of the Art in 1977-1983.

Show them the original 1930s version of King Kong and then the 1976 remake and see which one they think is the better movie.

As I have said here before, JMS got is right when he quoted an old saying "Art is never completed, only abandoned". GL should have abandoned the OT in 1983 when it was completed and released to the public.

Sure, include some revamped FX and lost scenes as extras on the DVD release by all means, but leave the films themselves alone.

Here's hoping that I will one day be able to replace my knackered old copy of the VHS version with a shiny new DVD, but I'm not holding my breath.

... [/rant]

I now return you to your normal broadcast.

I dunno... the OT is overrated. Remember the first 30 minutes of ANH are all about cute droids (3P0 whining like an asshole), desert, and jawas. That's pretty lame if you ask me. Give me a underwater city, a droid-army invasion, Jedi and CGI characters anytime.

The dialogue isn't all that great either, everyone complains about the ep II love story but come on: "I love you": "I know" - You've been wanting her all the movie, and now you are gonna die and those are your last words? Yeah real deep

But whatever floats your boat.

I dunno... the OT is overrated. Remember the first 30 minutes of ANH are all about cute droids (3P0 whining like an asshole), desert, and jawas. That's pretty lame if you ask me. Give me a underwater city, a droid-army invasion, Jedi and CGI characters anytime.

The dialogue isn't all that great either, everyone complains about the ep II love story but come on: "I love you": "I know" - You've been wanting her all the movie, and now you are gonna die and those are your last words? Yeah real deep

But whatever floats your boat.

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"I know" was actually ad-libbed by Harrison Ford. Han Solo was supposed to reciprocate the love in that scene, but Ford felt that Solo was too much of a scoundrel to really admit it (at least at that time).

I've seen the original trilogy as a child and countless times in between. As much as I always return to the theatre hoping to love the next installment, I don't find that they have the same energy as the original trilogy.

Yeah, Ford rewrote that exchange, and in my opinion it works much better than any flowery proclamations of undying devotion. Simple, straight to the point, heartbreaking.

Fas:

Remember the first 30 minutes of ANH are all about cute droids (3P0 whining like an asshole), desert, and jawas.

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No, the first 30 minutes of ANH were all about fantastic, heretofore never experienced (outside of 2001: A Space Odyssey) special effects. I'll never forget the opening scene in the theater when the empire's ship (can't think what it's called...starcruiser?) chasing the rebels' ship just kept getting bigger and bigger.

I don't think people who have been raised on today's special effects capabilities can appreciate the big change it was for us born before 1950!

Yeah... that was kinda cool. Funny that it was actually only a few centimetres long. Movie trivia, eh?

crofootski said:

I'll never forget the opening scene in the theater when the empire's ship (can't think what it's called...starcruiser?)

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Imperial Star Destroyer is the name of that ship. It was one of the most original starship designs I've ever seen on the screen, at the time.

I dunno... the OT is overrated. Remember the first 30 minutes of ANH are all about cute droids (3P0 whining like an asshole), desert, and jawas. That's pretty lame if you ask me. Give me a underwater city, a droid-army invasion, Jedi and CGI characters anytime.

But whatever floats your boat.

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I think you missed the point of my post Fas. You like the PT better than the OT for me its the other way around. No problem, I have no interest in trying to persuade you otherwise.

The pity is that having made three movies that a generation of kids (and adults) grew up loving to bits, he now can't stop tinkering with and changing them for no other reason than that he can (or that it makes him more money which is even worse).

The dialogue isn't all that great either, everyone complains about the ep II love story but come on: "I love you": "I know" - You've been wanting her all the movie, and now you are gonna die and those are your last words? Yeah, real deep.

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And since when was Han Solo's character supposed to be deep and philosophical? For me (as for Harrison Ford) that line fits so much better with his character than the original one written by GL.

EpV's love story works because it was a natural progression of the two characters' relationship. EpII's doesn't (for me) because it is just so hard to believe that sophisticated Queen Amidala could fall in love with an arrogant ***hole who she could be forgiven for thinking was stalking her.

Again, just my opinion.

it is just so hard to believe that sophisticated Queen Amidala could fall in love with an arrogant ***hole who she could be forgiven for thinking was stalking her.

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Yeah, i know... even though Anakin has good reasons to be an arrogant asshole (he wouldn't fall to the darkside if he wasn't fed crap from Palpatine now and then) it's hard to believe. I don't think she ever took the stalking seriously, at the beginning she always saw him as a harmless "kid from Tatooine"... its later that she started seeing him as something else. I also think it would have been more believable if he had kept the fact that he's a mass killer to himself. Oh well. I might add the deleted scenes add a lot of interest to the lvoe story.

In regards to the "how could she fall in love with an *******":
A lot of people, guys particularly, said that about Lyta and Byron. And a lot of guys I know say that about women they know.

So in that sense, it's very realistic, eh?

As far as the rewriting/editing of the originals, I personally am not a real fan of most remakes. Most films or songs that are remade are butchered, IMHO. But what stands out so much in my mind with the Original Trilogy is just how stuck Lucas seems to be.

Even a band that redoes an old Beatles' song also creates and markets mostly new material. It's kind of sad to think of GL in a rut, unable to leave his old successes behind and to move on to new projects.

Or has he also been working on new projects and I'm just not aware of it?

And a lot of guys I know say that about women they know.

So in that sense, it's very realistic, eh?

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Oh, yeah, i forgot about that. Stupid women.

Or has he also been working on new projects and I'm just not aware of it?

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He's moving on after the new trilogy, or so he has said.