Story arc

Does anyone know what the story arc is, or what it could be?

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"Gideon says we all have things to hide."
"Does he? How unfortunate, I was hoping he'd come further than that. Well not that it isn't true of course, it's just that one simply doesn't have to say it."

"I was just trying to work out whether a comment from me right now would be most wanted or least needed."

At this point, we don't tehcnically know that there's going to be a story arc. JMS remains resolutely silent on the matter, despite its having been raised more than once on the internet.

I would say this, based on B5 and Crusade: There is likely to be an arc. There is almost no chance that we're going to be able to figure out what that arc is based on the pilot or any of the pre-series publicity materials. In fact, the first traces of the arc won't show up until the middle of the first season, and we won't know where the show is really going until the end of S1 or early S2.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

[This message has been edited by Joseph DeMartino (edited May 31, 2001).]

JMS's golden rule of television:

The show that you think you're watching is not really the show that you are watching.



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You are finite. Zathras is finite. This...is wrong tool.

jtk724@hotmail.com

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zathras:
JMS's golden rule of television:

The show that you think you're watching is not really the show that you are watching.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JMS is the misdirection man....

I think B5LR will be a arcy show just not as intense as babylon 5 is my prediction.

Lots of little ones and a big one I hope....



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Deviot
Lincbot@yahoo.com.au

Quite true, seaons 1 episodes made much more sence after you'd watched the serie.

Regards
Halldor

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Gideon: I thought you said you don't hold a grudge?
Galen: I don't, I have no surviving enemies, at all.

Well, I would think that since the premise of the movie is supposed to be the Rangers helping worlds that have been devasted by the Shadow war the series (it hasn't actually BEEN eshtablished that there will be a series, has it?) should have an arc that includes much of that stuff. It could be the Drakh plague on Earth will get some attention. They might even mention some of the happenings from the Centauri trilogy with the Drakh on Centauri prime. Who knows? But my guess would be that the arc would be related to the Rangers helping worlds recover from the Shadow war.

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Sheridan to Bester:
And I could nail your head to the table, set fire to it, and feed your charred remains to the Pak'ma'ra.

It has been pointed out that the movie takes place 3 years after Objects at Rest, then that would be two years before A Call to Arms.

If JMS does get the series going, and if he keeps to the calendar year as he did in B5, then the Drakh plague would come up in the third year and could be woven into the story, or not, as JMS chooses.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>If JMS does get the series going, and if he keeps to the calendar year as he did in B5, then the Drakh plague would come up in the third year<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

More likely in the second year. The Rangers movie takes place in 2265. The Telepath War end sometime in 2265. Since the movie comes after the Teep War, and since JMS will likely want to leave a gap of several months between the two events for "wriggle room" when he eventually does the Teep War story, the Rangers pilot will likely take place too late in the year for the series to pick up in the same year. If I'm right about this, the series would start very early in 2266.

This follows the pattern of his previous series, in any event. The Gathering takes place in the summer of 2257, B5 kicks off in 2258. A Call to Arms is set either very late in 2266 or in January 2267, depending on what date the Interstellar Alliance takes as its founding.

(The movie takes place as the IA is about to celebrate its fifth anniversary. The Alliance is proposed late in 2261 and many worlds sign on. But we don't know when it officially "starts." Sheridan is sworn-in as the first President, and it becomes a working government, early in 2262.)

Crusade starts in 2267, shortly after the events of ACtA. (Even if you chuck "War Zone" the mission of the Excalibur begins in January 2267, and many of the events of the early days would have been covered in dialogue and flashbacks if JMS had had his way.)

So I think 2266 is the most likely year for Rangers S1, which means that Drakh assault on Earth would happen early in S2.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:

(The movie takes place as the IA is about to celebrate its fifth anniversary. The Alliance is proposed late in 2261 and many worlds sign on. But we don't know when it officially "starts."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

there is another thing: I believe , because the IA is more Minbari-related then Earth-related, the fifth anniversary should be seen in Minbari years. We know a Minbari year is shorter, so A Call to Arms may be set as early as november 2266.
This means the Drakh assault could take place near the end of Rangers S1.




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"I don't watch TV. It’s a cultural wasteland filled with inappropriate metaphors and an unrealistic portrayal of life created by the liberal media-elite."

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I believe , because the IA is more Minbari-related then Earth-related, the fifth anniversary should be seen in Minbari years.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to disagree here. The IA may have been Delenn's initiative, and it may be headquartered on Minbar, but it is the Humans who make it possible. The one race that all of the others are willing to trust and throw their support behind, as Sheridan is the one individual everyone will support. (There are very deliberate echoes of George Washington at the time of the Constitutional Convention in Sheridan's portrayal.)

So I think the likelihood is that Human measurements will become the de facto standard for all the aliens, since it is always easier to have a single reference that everybody can translate into and out of rather than each individual race trying to deal with each other separately.

The same sort of thing happens on Earth. At various times Greek, Latin, French and English have been the languages of the educated classes in various countries, and the standard language of diplomacy. Similarly the world sets it watches with reference to Greenwich Mean Time, and even non-Christians employ a dating system based on the approximate year of Christ's birth when they want to commuicate a date in a way that will be universally understood.

The Earth Alliance may not be that important in the grand schemem of things, but Humans still make up the majority of Rangers, and Humans whose loyalty is more to the IA than to Earth (from Mars and the other newly independent colonies, which view the IA as their liberator and guarantor of freedom) will continue to play a leading role in the new Alliance.

I'd have to guess that "Galactic Standard Time" for the Alliance is going to be good old GMT, the most common language English, and the year 365.25 24 hour days long.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

[This message has been edited by Joseph DeMartino (edited June 01, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Humans still make up the majority of Rangers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Joe, do you have a source for that? Since the Minbari were the Only race allowed to be Rangers before Sinclair became Ranger One, I'd expect them to have an edge in recruitment for quite a while.




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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

In both In the Beginning and the novel To Dream in the City of Sorrows it is made clear that the Rangers have been in decline on Minbar for some time. They attract few recruits, especially from the Warrior caste, and most of their members are elderly. Members of the Gray Council privately mock the organization, and it is starved for funds and support.

When Sinclair takes over enough Minbari are convinced by events that there might be something to prophecy after all, and that the Rangers need to be reactivated, but there is still resistance. (As late as "Severed Dreams" the Gray Council is still split over whether or not the current troubles really indicate the return of the ancient enemy, and even over their belief in Valen's prophecies.) Having a Human at the head of the organization doesn't help any. Many Minbari who might be inclined to join the Rangers refuse because an alien is running the show. So a great many of Sinclair's recruits (Marcus and his brother are among the earliest) are Humans.

Until season 5, we don't see many Minbari Rangers. The ones we do see are mostly new recruits who have joined since the Shadow war. The elderly trainers are from the pre-Sinclair era, and so are mostly Minbari. But the bulk of the Ranger force and hierarchy that actually saw service during the Shadow War were Human. They will, in the natural course of things, hold most of the senior command slots as the organiztion expands under the IA. And since the Rangers are now open to all races, odds are the Humans will remain the single largest contingent in the organization for some time to come.

I would also think that Humans would still be heavily recruited in the years after 2262. The independence of Mars, and possibly Proxima and Rigel, was ultimately won by Sheridan's fleet. Martian patriots and others would have an interest in supporting IA. There are probably still many refugees from Clark who aren't comfortable going home and who would be looking for someone or something to "serve" and "trust," There are probably also lots of military and ex-military personnel who followed orders under Clark, but aren't happy about the things they did. A stint in the Rangers could represent a kind of pennance for them.

After the Drakh plague and the quarantine of Earth, there will be a lot more Humans who "can't go home" and would want to serve in the Rangers to help look for a cure.

So I think. for a time at least, the Rangers will be dominated by, if not mostly made up of, Humans. (And don't forget, since the Rangers' rebirth under Sinclair, every leader of the Rangers that we see is human - either wholly or on a genetic level: Sinclair, Delenn, Sheridan and Ivanova.)

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

[This message has been edited by Joseph DeMartino (edited June 03, 2001).]

You are right Joe D. In the episode the Coming of the Shadows, the ranger gives Garibaldi the message from Sinclair who tells the chief that the rangers are made up of mostly humans and a few minbari.

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Back to the subject of the Rangers story arc--did anyone else notice:

B5 episode #8--"And the Sky Full of Stars": a story arc is first hinted at in an episode that deals with Sinclair's past.

B5 episode #13--"Signs and Portents": The main story arc of the series really begins.

Crusade episode #9--"The Path of Sorrows" (according to JMS's "intended" order) : a story arc is first hinted at in an episode that deals with Gideon's past (and, to a lesser extent, the past of other characters).

Crusade episode #14--"To the Ends of the Earth": The main story arc of the series really begins.

My educated guess is that we can expect something similar for Rangers.


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"And the Sky Full of Stars" is kind of a reach for first bringing the arc into view. It deals only with Sinclair's missing 24 hours, a mystery that would have been wrapped up in "Chrysalis" but for Michael O'Hare's departure. The arc proper is the recurring, ancient war, and how the people of B5 broke the cycle and founded a new alliance. "Sky" is only peripherally connected to that, and qualifies as "arc" mostly in retrospect.

"Signs" introduces a mystery in the form of Morden, but nobody would come away from that episode with much understanding of what is really going on. It isn't until well into S2 that we begin to see the shape of the thing that "Signs" hints at.

Without JMS's subsequent revelations about his plans for Crusade, even with the publication of the unfilmed scripts, I don't think we'd be in as good a position to guess the direction of that series based solely on the produced S1 episodes either.

So whatever hints there may be in Rangers season one I don't think that anyone will be able to say for sure where the series is going until the last S1 episode, or even later. Hindsight is 20/20. None of the episodes mentioned were as big a red flag the first time they aired as they become in the light of later events.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
It deals only with Sinclair's missing 24 hours, a mystery that would have been wrapped up in "Chrysalis" but for Michael O'Hare's departure.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Did you just type the wrong episode name, or are you implying that Chrysalis was changed because of O'Hare's departure?

(Or are you being "really clever" and dragging Chrysalis, Part 2 into the mix?)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
It deals only with Sinclair's missing 24 hours, a mystery that would have been wrapped up in "Chrysalis" but for Michael O'Hare's departure.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JMS said:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>The only difference in the resolution of that aspect is this: we had originally intended to resolve the missing 24 hours, and the Battle of the Line, by episode four, season two. We've simply moved it up 3 eps to the first episode. Because new players are coming onto the field, in the form of the Shadowmen, and other forces, and we now have to begin turning our attention to new mysteries.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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vakie

Yeah, I was typing fast and was a little fuzzy on what got revealed where and was thinking of Crysalis, Pt. 2. The point being only that some of the revelations would have been handled slightly differently.

JMS's planned pattern for the show (tossed out the window in S4 and S5 due to Real Life considerations) was to resolved some of the plot threads and mysteries from each season in the first three or four episodes of the following seasons, having planted the seeds for those mysteries in the waning episodes of the earlier season.

(Thus S4 would have seen the arrival of Byron and the start of the Teep colony near the end, which would have come with "Intersections in Realtime." The Earth Civil War would have been wrapped up by the 4th or 5th episode of S5.)

So while there is lots of stuff in the B5 S1 that fits into the arc wonderfully in retrospect, it would still have been difficult to predict a geat deal about the series based only on those first 22 shows. I suspect that Rangers - if it has an arc - will be similar in this respect.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

Are there any hints yet as to who might be penning some of these hopefully-to-be B5LR episodes? We have to remember that B5 was authored almost exclusively by JMS. That makes heavy arcs easier to maintain. JMS also promises he NEVER intends to do that to himself again! It's just too much work to be everything for a series. If he plans to have any arcs at all in the new series (if it gets made of course), he'd have to have a regular staff of writers all keyed into his larger scheme, I might speculate. So, any idea who might be on board as writers?

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"Why not? Only 1 Human captain has ever survived battle with the Minbari fleet. He is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else."

Pardon, but isn't everyone jumping the gun? As far as I know, Sci-Fi has yet to announce there will be a new series. The closest thing I've heard have been some JMS quotes basically saying that if sci-fi likes what they see then they might start a new series. Granted IMdB has a page devoted toward the series (as well as the movie/pilot) but to this day I have yet to hear that there will definitively be a series. From some of JMS earlier quotes he made it seem as though if Sci-fi was pleased with the script and with the dailies then they would decide whether or not to start a series... but now that trailers/teasers are running, why hasn't sci-fi made the announcement? Aren't they concerned that even if they do decide to start a series that some of the original cast might be connected to other projects by then? Sci-fi seems to be at least somewhat aware of the massive fan interest -- secret web code announcements; have a character named after you.... So why not announce it now if they have already made the decision. And if they haven't made the decision, then this really is being premature. And what if, heaven forbid, they decide that there won't be a new series at all?

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