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Carnivale last ep, speculation and spoilers

Jade Jaguar

Regular
Yow! Some of the things I predicted came to pass, but in totally different ways than I expected. Norman healed, then struck down, moments later. Sophie did prove crucial, but... She shot Jonesy! She seems to be resurecting the evil Brother Justin! Ben stabbed Justin in the right spot, with the right weapon, but, maybe he isn't really dead anymore? Is Jonesy really dead? Will Ben recover? Lying in Management's bed, will he become as reclusive as management? How could Sophie heal Justin, and why would she, since she knows he raped her mother? Will Justin's bloody killing rampage really be attributed to him, and turn his followers against him, or will he somehow manage to blame it all on Ben? And, what about Iris? What does she do now? I have my ideas about all of this, but let me hear yours!
 
I thought all those same things too but don't have time to speculate right now. I just wanted to let people know that I heard it is on the bubble for a renewal. HBO has an open survey for it's subscribers so, iIf you are a HBO subscriber and wish to help get Carnivale renewed, please follow the link below to participate.

http://www.hbosurveys.com/surveys/carnivale05.htm

I filled it out and I hope it helps. This is too good of a show to not get renewed -- especially with all the unanswered questions from this last season! :eek:
 
I thought it had been renewed. :( I did fill out the survey on the website, and I hope it helps. Thanks for posting it. Now, if we could only get some discussion going here... ;)
 
I filled out the survey also. I'm going to be sad if this show gets killed off like Jeremiah did on Showtime.

-Haze
 
(Taken from TVGuide.com )

Question: Any idea what's going to happen with Carnivàle? The second season finale was excellent, but I'm worried it's going to be canned. — Melanie

Ausiello: You're worried? I've been biting my nails down to nubs ever since Sophie leveled that cornfield in the episode's final moments. Fortunately, the situation doesn't seem to be as dire as Variety made it out to be last week. (The trade paper reported that Carnivàle was "not likely to return" for a third season.) "There's no indication from HBO that the show is dead," series creator Daniel Knauf tells me. "The fact is, our ratings for the last episode were [almost as high as] Deadwood's. Personally, I think they're gonna pick it up." From his mouth to Hawkins' ears.

Question: If they decide not to bring Carnivàle back for a third full season, what would be the chance of a two-hour movie just to wrap things up a little better? I mean, we've potentially got Sophie and Justin teamed up out there wreaking havoc and surely Ben will have to finish them off for good. — Steve

Ausiello: Not a chance, according to Daniel Knauf. "It wouldn't work [as a two-hour movie]," he says, "because we're only a third of the way through our story. I had said at the beginning that we couldn't do it in any less than three seasons or any more than six. I had always envisioned the story as three books. I knew if I crushed things I could do it in three, but we didn't. We decided from the outset not to crush it and tell the stories the way they should be told — which is in three two-season cycles. That decision had to be made early on and that's the way we went." That said, Kanuf believes that Carnivàle's remaining "three books" will see the light of day — if not on HBO, then maybe in the movies. "I've got a feeling that this is not going to go away," he says. "It could very well be one of those Star Trek experiences, where we pick it up where we last left off at some future date. But I doubt it would be on another network or anything like that."
 
Now, as for my feelings. I think Sophie either:

1. Has healing powers because she's preggo w/Ben's child
2. Is something "else."

I'm tending to lead toward the idea that she's something else. She IS the Omega, meaning she's the last. I think this is the case because she is pregnant with Ben's child and now brings both bloodlines together.

I don't know about Jonesy. I think she killed him to save Brother Justin. How did she know Justin was shot? Well, she's got some pretty damn amazing powers, so why wouldn't she know? Ben "heals" and Justin "Feels." It's always been that way. She could just be gaining that insight from her pa. She also wasn't terribly suprised to see Justin laying there covered in blood.

So, she may have used Jonesy to heal Brother Justin. If that is the case, then it's possible that Jonesy's spirit / personality may start to come through in Brother Justin (the same way Lodz came through Ruthie.)

Now, my heart tells me Jonesy isn't dead. I think people who have been touched by Avatars (either of light or dark) are forever changed.

First off, we have Lodz. He had the powers of empathy. Actually, if you read his profile, it was Scudder who gave him these powers, but the price was his sight.

Second, you have Ruthie. She was resurrected by Ben, using Lodz' life. She now has one foot in the spirit world and one foot out.

Third, you have Appy. She was raped by Brother Justin and went into a catatonic state after Sophie was born. Justin also had sex with various women, all of whom were "not the same" after he was finished with them. Appy had the gifts of telekenisis and perhaps the gift of prophecy, though I tend to think that came more from Sophie than from Appy.

All of that said, it appears that once a person is healed, touched, altered by either a Creature of Light or Creature of Darkness, they are changed. I'm hoping that Jonesy will survive because he was healed by Ben, that he will simply be stronger and can make it through.

If Sophie healed Brother Justin, it could very well be that she used Stroud to do it instead of Jonesy.

One thing that did catch my eye in season 2, was when Sophie gave Ben another tarot card reading. The Lovers appeared and Sophie and Ben both had visions of kissing one another in the field where the bomb went off. The odd thing? Sophie was wearing Jonesy's baseball mitt. Just have to wonder if that's a sign he really is dead. Jonesy also said something to himself (muttered) "when you were little, you used to think the hems were veins." He said this while Sophie was doing hard labor and he was staring down at his mitt. He then rolled the baseball to her and walked away.

According to Sophie's profile (and Jonesy's) Sophie was kind of a pest when she was little, following Jonesy around everywhere and idolizing him. He taught her baseball, etc. So, if she did truly kill Jonesy, she's going to end up really regretting it.

This leads me to my second train of thought (er.. or is that like my 6th or 7th train of thought, anyway.) I think Sophie was possessed or that there may really be two personalities struggling within her. Remember when she was in the shack and she was shown her mother being raped by Justin? She's approached by the figure in the veil (who turns out to be Sophie herself.)

Every prophet in her house.

"This IS YOUR house," she tells Sophie. Then we hear Sophie scream. Something happened to her, against her will. Perhaps she went mad, or, the "other personality / other Sophie" came forth.

I have more, but won't bog down this post. Will post below. Hahah. Sorry, I'm a GEEK!
 
Sophie and the Omega.

Here are some passages from the Bible:

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the ending, the First and the Last.”

“Do not fear, I am the First and the Last, and the Living One, and I became dead, and behold, I am alive for ever and ever, Amen. And I have the keys of hell and of death."

The way I look at it is this way:

Ben is the Alpha.
Sophie is the Omega.

Justin is just the devil (ha!)

But being the Alpha and the Omega, it’s part of the same thing. Perhaps Ben represents God’s love and healing. Sophie represents God’s wrath and judgment.


Now, what’s REALLY interesting is this bit I found about the name SOPHIA:

Sophia

In Gnostic tradition, the term Sophia (Greek for "wisdom") has an esoteric meaning.

Many Gnostics (especially the followers of Valentinius) taught that there was the One, the original, unknowable God; and then from the One emanated other Aeons, pairs of lesser beings in sequence. (Valentinius listed 30 such pairs.) The Aeons together made up the Pleroma, or fullness, of God. The lowest of these pairs were Sophia and Christ.

Sophia's fear and anguish of losing her life, (just as she lost the light of the One) caused confusion and longing to return to it. Because of these longings the matter and the soul accidentally came into existence through the four elements: fire, water, earth, and air.

After this the savior (Christ) returns and lets her see the light again, bringing her knowledge of the spirit. Christ was then sent to earth on the form of the man Jesus to give men the gnosis needed to rescue themselves from the physical world and return to spiritual world.

The three sensations experienced by Sophia create three types of humans:

* hylics (bond to the matter, the principle of evil)
* psychics (bond to the soul and partly saved from evil)
* pneumatics that can return to the plemora if they achieve gnosis and can behold the world of light. The gnostics regarded themselves as members of this group.

The title Pistis Sophia is obscure, and is sometimes translated "Faith wisdom." In an earlier, simpler version of a Sophia, in the Berlin Codex and also found in a papyrus at Nag Hammadi, the transfigured Christ explains '"Pistis":

Again, his disciples said: "Tell us clearly how they came down from the invisibilities, from the immortal to the world that dies?"

The perfect Savior said: "Son of Man consented with Sophia, his consort, and revealed a great androgynous light. His male name is designated 'Savior, Begetter of All Things'. His female name is designated 'All-Begettress Sophia'. Some call her 'Pistis'." (— The Sophia of Jesus Christ)
 
That is some really interesting stuff and has given me lots to think about. At some point (when I have time -- ha!) we want to watch the second season again to see clues we may have missed before.

I had a strong feeling that Sophie would get pregnant as soon as Ben and her had sex. I just couldn't figure out what the consequences of that union but I bet it is going to play a huge part in the story. ;)
 
Thanks for the post from TV Guide. It sounds hopeful to me.

I don't think that Sophie uses Jonesy to heal Justin, because I think she would have drawn energy from him, instead of shooting him, if that was the case. I think she is definitely being controlled/possessed by someone, but the question is who? It seems like Justin sent Stroud to kill her, and it doesn't seem like he would have done that, if he could, or planned, to possess her. It doesn't seem like Lodz, since the eyes were black, not white. Sophie's mom, perhaps? But then, why would she have Sophie heal Justin, the man she hates? Did Apollonia know that Sophie would heal Justin, and that's why she tried to kill her in the fire?

As to your biblical/gnostic citations, those might play a part, but only if Knauf is familiar with them. ;) But, Iris did make a point of Sophie's name... I believe that one of the scientists present at the first nuclear explosion, near Alamo Gordo, read some quote about "I am the Alpha and Omega..." I can't quite remember it, but I think it came from Hindu or Buddhist writings. Knowing that we have only seen the first of three "books," and that the first nuke test was in 1944, there is lots of time to cover yet. That would make Ben and Sophie's child about 9 or 10 when the bomb goes off.
 

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