Input Needed (Sci-Fi Discussion)

Hello all. I would love some input from you guys. I'm currently in graduate school (getting an MFA in creative writing.) I'm taking a pretty extensive class on the short story format. I'm gearing up to do a project / presentation in November (so I have some time.) My topic is going to be science fiction and why it's not taken seriously in the high-falootin' literary world.

In my experience, I've read almost no sci-fi/fantasy in graduate/undergrad--with the exception of two things:

1. A class on Tolkien (special topics)
2. In one class, we read the novel, "Never Let Me Go" by Katsu Ishiguro which is considered more "meta fiction." Even then, Ishiguro refuses to acknowledge that his book IS speculative fiction, even though it's about cloning in an alternative present day.

It just goes to show that even Ishiguro (who wrote "Remains of the Day") considers speculative/sci-fi to be a dirty word.

I get to spend about 20 minutes talking about this. I'm pretty much just looking for some ideas as to why you guys might think science fiction is so poo-pooed in the elite literary circles. Why it's rarely taught in literature classes. Heck, even in creative writing classes, we're told 'NO GENRE FICTION, ESPECIALLY SCI-FI!" I've only been allowed to write genre fiction in one class through the many years I've been in school.

Why?

Also, I need to come up with a short story for the class to read beforehand. I'd love to hear some suggestions. I would want something that doesn't rely too much on the genre (i.e. overly techie, overly "far out", etc.) I want something that really shows GOOD writing, GOOD storytelling (which is what good sci-fi is all about, imho.)

I've obviously looked at some Ray Bradbury and will examine him quite a bit. He has some essays about why sci-fi is a four letter word to many readers.

I also ordered a book by Orson Scott Card with a short story called, "Unaccompanied Sonata" which I hear is supposed to be excellent.

Anyway, sorry this is so long. I'd love to get a dialogue going about this and would love to hear from you guys. The context also doesn't have to be all written stories.

Why aren't sci-fi shows/movies taken as seriously as straight-up drama/fiction?

Looking forward to hearing from ya.

Lulu

Probably because of the geek/nerd stigma that Trek conventions helped permanently burn into people's perception.

Yeah -- that and the concepts are outlandish and hard to accept. ("A vampire slayer? Named what now? No, no, much too silly.") Never mind that a ton of "mainstream" stuff requires just as much suspension of disbelief. Also it's a bit like groupthink and conformity: people don't read it because nobody else does.

As to examples of really good stuff: try "The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas," by Ursula K. LeGuin, which is a truly amazing tale despite being nothing but description.

It just goes to show how limited their imaginations are and how intellectually bankrupt they are in denying genres that are absolutely perfect formats for the conveying of allegorical messages.

Trek/Wars does seem to have been the start of the stigma. When I look at older films and science fiction books, they were lauded back in their day.... but when popular culture absorbed the genres, the intellectuals turned their noses up.

Sometimes I wonder if it's the professor. When I was taking creative writing in college my teacher didn't care if you wrote sci-fi, fantasy, whatever as long as you were writing. I wrote a story that was a mix a bit of magical-realism. I also had an English lit class where one student was being picked on because she consider Stephen King contemporary fiction. The professor then told that student after class (I was outside waiting for class to be over) that if she believed that, then don't let the other students dissuade her. Most of it is subjective anyway.

And speaking of short stories; Stephen King's 'The Jaunt' is a neat little so-called sci-fi story. When he originally tried to publish it I believe he was told it couldn't be published in a sci-fi magazine because the science behind his story wasn't sound.

I love sci-fi, fantasy and so forth and many of them are bestsellers but for some reason they are not taken as seriously as other mainstream fiction. I'm still trying to exactly figure out why. Harry Turtledove does alternate history fiction along with S.M. Stirling; both are exceptional writers and bestsellers but would probably not be covered in an English lit class.

Reading over this I'm not sure if this even helped at all or not.

Yes, I see.

Thinking of it, I'm a fan of Stephen Lawhead's works and a few years ago, his publisher tried to get his newer works reclassified as historical fiction... presumably to escape the stigma attached to the fantasy genre. I certainly think that Patrick, his Celtic Crusades series and and Byzantium probably fall into this bracket.

So it seems their is an attack from scholars and moneymen alike.

I'm older than most people here, and I don't think sci fi was ever appreciated as good literature, LONG before Star Trek. I think that is mostly because Sci Fi was pulp fiction from it's beginning as a popular genre. So, I think the real drama in much good sci fi has been overlooked, because of the conceits of the genre.

Jules Verne and H.G. Welles get some respect, as does Bradbury, but mostly they are considered second rate, at best. There IS one modern writer, who gets a lot of respect, and many of his stories are Sci Fi at heart... that is Kurt Vonnegut. "Cats Cradle" is certainly Sci Fi, as are many of his short stories. Thomas Pynchon, much respected, also has sort of sci fi elements in his work. But, his work is so damn intimidating, I haven't read anything he's written since "V."

Jade Jaguar said:

Jules Verne and H.G. Welles get some respect, as does Bradbury, but mostly they are considered second rate, at best. There IS one modern writer, who gets a lot of respect, and many of his stories are Sci Fi at heart... that is Kurt Vonnegut. "Cats Cradle" is certainly Sci Fi, as are many of his short stories. Thomas Pynchon, much respected, also has sort of sci fi elements in his work. But, his work is so damn intimidating, I haven't read anything he's written since "V."

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I think you have to add the late Arthur C Clarke to that list. Scholars wouldn't be able to attack his ideas as lacking in realism...seeing as several of his visionary ideas have led to actual technological advances in the real world.

This reminds me of a survey done in the UK for the greatest book written in the 20th Century. The result? "The Lord of the Rings," by a mile. Various critics decried the result, but what exactly could they do?

KoshFan said:

This reminds me of a survey done in the UK for the greatest book written in the 20th Century. The result? "The Lord of the Rings," by a mile. Various critics decried the result, but what exactly could they do?

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IIRC (and I am a UK citizen), that survey wasn't just restricted to the 20th century, because the runner up was the "Pride and Prejudice" by Jane Austen. I was so pleased that Tolkien thrashed the britches off Austen. You have no idea how annoying it is to have the same 18th/19th century period dramas wheeled out again and again....and always on in prime time atthe expense of other genres.

I suspect the critics who were decrying The Lord of the Rings the loudest... were the die-hard Austenphile's... because just for once things had gone against them.

All I have to say to them is...

Good Luck on your project. One thought on why SciFi is looked down on is the prose. In general fiction the writer is embellishing the familiar while in speculative fiction the writer is introducing alien ideas/creatures/tools. Everyone can visualize a tiger, takes work to describe a Kzin.:devil:

I'd also recommend Isaac Asimov as one of the Greats. Nightfall or The Ugly Little Boy would be good choices for your short story.

Galahad said:

I think you have to add the late Arthur C Clarke to that list. Scholars wouldn't be able to attack his ideas as lacking in realism...seeing as several of his visionary ideas have led to actual technological advances in the real world.

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Definitely. I wasn't really making a list, just offering some examples.

But, the more I think of it, the more remarkable I find it that Vonnegut, who I much enjoy and admire, escaped the label 'sci fi writer,' because most of his best work is definitely sci fi, like "Slaughterhouse 5," where Billy Pilgrim becomes "unstuck in time." He IS considered a 'serious' author, while most sci fi authors aren't. :wtf:

Sci-fi's origins in Pulp fiction and monthly journals (think Robert E. Howard) such as Amazing Stories have helped fuel the misconception.

There is also the fact that a large proportion of modern sci-fi / fantasy is fairly derivative anyway. So is a lot of chick-lit, horror and crime fiction, but these are not exactly regarded as important literary works either.

When a sci-fi author does produce genuine literature (which I believe has means it has some credible academic content, it seeks to explore or at least inform, as opposed to just entertaining) it rarely gets noticed, or a publisher seeks to reclassify it. Neal Stephenson, one of the best writers of the last 50 years in any genre (and he writes a lot) suffers from this.

The current TV state of affairs is also partly derived from this. BSG is notable in that it dresses characters in normal suits, gives them normal names and explores real world issues in an obvious almost believable way. Its good tv, that happens to be sci-fi, as opposed to sci-fi, that happens to be on TV ! . The literature / entertainment thing also applies here.

As for dressing up, people round here dress up in Shakespearian clobber all the time, and do not get me started on Jane Austin fans.

I just wanted to mention that at the University of Virginia they offered a English Lit class on science fiction writers. I didn't take it but I heard it was a good class.

I searched for other scifi classes and found this one which sounds very interesting

ANTH 223 - Fantasy and Social Values
Examines imaginary societies, in particular those in science fiction novels, to see how they reflect the problems and tensions of real social life. Focuses on “alternate cultures” and fictional societal models.

Wow, awesome replies so far. Sorry I've been absent. I want to respond more soon. In the middle of relocating. It's been really really ugly and I'm exhausted. More later!

Thanks again for stuff so far. Lots of thought-provoking material.