True Blood

Honestly, I didn't realize people were watching that much vampire TV. Sure I'm aware of Buffy/Angel (saw a couple of episodes and had no interest) and the odd film here and there but I can't say I'm particularly sick of it, myself- again, probably because I didn't get into the Buffy/Angel thing which are popular amongst fellow sci-fi fans and seemed to be on forever.

I guess I'm not saying I'm sick of watching Vampire stuff...because I really dont watch them at all anyway. I guess I'm saying I'm just really surprised at HOW MUCH Vampire content is out there over the last 10 years. So when I see something else come along, its a big "yawn, another Vampire show/movie" and I just don't motivate to watch it.

KoshFan said:

That would probably set my back up too... let me guess: girlfriend?

I'm well aware that Whedon's shows are scarcely alone, but once you've watched his stuff, why watch anything else?

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because Kinski shits all over any actor who has ever even thought about a role in anything to do with vampires whatsoever.

i just don't think whedon is all that great a writer either, JMS is a genius, ron moore is clichéd and somewhat derivative, but still fairly entertaining.

Recoil said:

I don't think I could possibly disagree more with anything I have seen recently. Did you seriously mean what you just said? Because Joss Whedon did a couple TV shows about Vampires, that ruins the entire fucking genre now? Wait! He did Firefly! Fuck! I guess that means why bother watching any Sci Fi as well! Or Westerns for that matter.

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Well, there was a bit of humor in my comments. And of course I'm not swearing off SF because of Firefly; plenty more good stuff out there. But when it comes to vampires, Buffy kinda put the genre in the grave for me (so to speak). If there's ever another vampire show that has a sense of humor that matches mine so perfectly, another show that's got characters I can identify with so closely and admire so much, and another show that's got Eliza Dushku being morally ambiguous, I'll give it a try. Failing that, any vampire show will probably suffer a bit in my eyes, especially if it's pitched at teens.

For example, if they made a TV series out of the new "Twilight" novels, I'd never watch it, because the vampire lover is practically a carbon copy of Angel while the heroine is so vapid and lovestruck that she's even more spineless than first-season Willow, and the romantic arc would be a retread of Season 3 of BtVS only without the fantastic puns.

Yeah, it's fanboyism, but it's also because Buffy matches my personality so darn well. It's like wearing clothes that suit me perfectly. I don't object to the existence of other clothes, but I'm already set, thanks.

Ranger1 said:

i just don't think whedon is all that great a writer either, JMS is a genius, ron moore is clichéd and somewhat derivative, but still fairly entertaining.

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I'll reiterate my question: how much of Whedon's stuff have you seen? I'm not going to insist that he's great, because greatness is in the eye of the beholder, but think of it this way: if all you ever saw of B5 was "Gray 17 is Missing," how highly would you esteem JMS?

KoshFan said:

I'll reiterate my question: how much of Whedon's stuff have you seen? I'm not going to insist that he's great, because greatness is in the eye of the beholder, but think of it this way: if all you ever saw of B5 was "Gray 17 is Missing," how highly would you esteem JMS?

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i have sadly suffered through most of his work, firefly was okay i guess, but not great, and to be honest it was only the concept that that interested me.

also, grey 17 is an awesome episode, i genuinely don't understand the hatred for it.

Ya know, I never watched Buffy on a regular basis. I've seen a show or two. It's on my list of "things to watch someday," along with all of the Stargate series and Farscape. I'm really not into campy so much (a reason why I have avoided Buffy, but still plan to watch it someday.) I did love Fright Night, though.

I think there is definitely a difference between Buffy and something far more dark and brooding (like "The Hunger.")

I can't imagine a vampire show or movie that will NOT steal its ideas from something of vampire past. There is simply too much out there. It can be done in a really cool way, of that I am certain. It just has to be in the right hands and not tarted up or dumbed down.

Anna Paquin is an excellent choice. Naive and youthful, yet very sexy in her own right.

I realized that I've become a grumpy old man and can't relate to shows and movies about young people. Our pop culture is geared towards and centered around youth, and I find young people to be profoundly uninteresting. Possibly one reason I never got into the Buffy. Also one reason I love B5- the characters are unusually old for a sci-fi TV show.

Ranger1 said:

sorry it was Gorkon, it's just Chang continually quotes the bard.

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I know... it was my assumption as well - for exactly the same reason, and I would have probably put that myself had I not bothered to run the clip on YouTube first.

Ranger1 said:

i have sadly suffered through most of his work, firefly was okay i guess, but not great, and to be honest it was only the concept that that interested me.

also, grey 17 is an awesome episode, i genuinely don't understand the hatred for it.

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Grey 17 falls down in a similar way to TKO (although the latter is more cheesy than bad).

The "B" stories in both, are far stronger than the main story... and you can't help thinking that you wished more time had been spent on those elements than the main thread.

That said, the subplots of both those episodes more than redeem them in my books... so I don't understand any feeling of utter contempt for them either.

Ranger1 said:

i have sadly suffered through most of his work, firefly was okay i guess, but not great, and to be honest it was only the concept that that interested me.

also, grey 17 is an awesome episode, i genuinely don't understand the hatred for it.

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Okay, bad example; I forgot the Neroon story. And if you've "suffered" through most of Whedon's stuff and don't like him, then I doubt we'll ever see completely eye to eye on matters of taste... which is just fine.

Alluveal said:

Ya know, I never watched Buffy on a regular basis. [...]
I think there is definitely a difference between Buffy and something far more dark and brooding (like "The Hunger.")

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More dark? Yeah, you've never watched Buffy or Angel. Those shows are utterly brutal to the main characters. Not epic dark like "oh, we just blew up humanity" BSG, but the dark of "How much more can these poor kids take?"

GKarsEye said:

Our pop culture is geared towards and centered around youth, and I find young people to be profoundly uninteresting.

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You haven't had much to do with them, then. Yeah, kids can be incredibly dumb and self-centered, but they're also capable of truly astonishing things, given the chance. They're always a total mix. In fact, try to think of them all as Gaius Baltar: huge egos and equally huge self-loathing, a brash exterior hiding an increasingly complex interior, utterly unpredictable. Brilliant, stupid, wildly hormonal.

I loved Buffy and liked Angel. I would agree that they are probably my favorite TV vampire shows ever. However, none of the vampires with the exception of perhaps some of Spike's moments are my favorite. Kinski was exceptional, and I loved Louis Jourdan's Dracula. Odd, and interesting. His scraping up the stone wall, fangs out scared the bejesus out of me.

KoshFan said:

You haven't had much to do with them, then. Yeah, kids can be incredibly dumb and self-centered, but they're also capable of truly astonishing things, given the chance. They're always a total mix. In fact, try to think of them all as Gaius Baltar: huge egos and equally huge self-loathing, a brash exterior hiding an increasingly complex interior, utterly unpredictable. Brilliant, stupid, wildly hormonal.

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I am a bit with GKE on this one. Focusing on the angst of teens leaves me a bit bored. Being half my age KF and a teacher, you are closer and more intrigued with it than some of us codgers. I spent last Sunday with my 19 year old niece. She is all of the above that you mentioned. It was exhausting.

Oh, definitely exhausting. But I think this culture sells teenagers short, and never really gives them a chance to shine, so I speak up for them when I can.

See, I don't mind the teen shows or stories about younger people. I've even been known to watch DeGrassi the next Generation w/my niece on occasion. Sometimes, you do things that make you want to take a shower afterwards, but you secretly appreciate it on some really strange level.

And with Whedon's teen-oriented stuff (of which there is, actually, not that much, since his characters grew up), it's not a matter of wanting a shower... in my case, at least, it's a burning rage at myself for not watching the show when I was actually in high school, when it could have been useful.

I'm indifferent with the opener. It felt really disjointed and like it didn't know what it wanted to be. At some points it appeared to want to be more of a gonzo type show, with imagery and scenes merely meant to shock the audience, and at others it appeared to want to be some sort of introspective take on human culture. Anna Pacquin still can't act, and the rest of the cast was okay, except for the best friend who was too over the top with her role. I'll stick with it, but hopefully it finds itself as time goes by.

Well, Cell, you hate just about everything, so I think the rest of us will have to just wait and see it.

Of course he does. He is Cobra Commander you know ...

Alluveal said:

Well, Cell, you hate just about everything, so I think the rest of us will have to just wait and see it.

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I like lots of stuff actually, and I've liked True Blood enough to go back for the third episode. I just happen to be critical of what I watch, but that doesn't mean I don't like all kinds of shows or movies.

I watched the first episode and found it to me unbelievably stupid on every level. No need to go into a detailed break-down, the whole show just stunk on ice.

I don't mean to sound dramatic, but with all of their great shows over or canceled and this as their marquee show, it looks like HBO's days of making the finest TV are over.