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Thirdspace and Ivanova

A

aajay

Member
Just re-watched Thirdspace and a timing question popped into my head. The movie takes place between the Shadow war and the Earth-civil war (mid season 4), but was a TNT “presentation”, so it was actually filmed after season 4 filming ended, right?
If so, how was Ivanova/Claudia featured so prominently? Didn’t she opt out before (or just as) TNT got involved? (She is also in In The Beginning, but only one scene).
Andy
 
One of the issues in regards to her leaving was that hit occured in the last minute, I think. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure, but I do think that's basically it, yes.
 
Yeah her career really took of after leaving B 5 didn't it? She sure had people calling her with job offers. she should have stay with B5.:rolleyes:
 
Garovorkin said:
Yeah her career really took of after leaving B 5 didn't it? She sure had people calling her with job offers. she should have stay with B5.:rolleyes:
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I don't agree with the Spirit of this statement at all.

I don't fault her for leaving to pursue other interests at all. I do fault her for the WAY she left, and many others do as well, especially JMS.

What if she did stay on B5, removing the selfish fan in me who would liked to have seen her stay, what would have been the difference to HER? One more season. That's it. Maybe a part in the Lost Tales DVD some years later.

She didn't lose anything by not staying other than one more season of a steady paycheck. She took a chance on some opportunities that didn't pan out, it happens. But to not take that chance is worse IMO.

Besides, you made your comment as if staying that extra season would have "made her career" or rather her leaving "damaged" her career --- it didn't. Maybe with JMS, but thats it. Who else from B5 has "made it big" after the 5th season? Jerry Doyle? Steven Furst? They all have done well in their respective careers that they have ventured on to, but none of them have exploded into super stardom because of B5. So lets not kid ourselves here.....
 
And what was the sum total of her career after B5? not much , there is no malice here only fact, yeah I agree staying with B5 might not have made a difference but who knows, you may be right on this score.
 
In retrospect ,your right Recoil none the others really did a lot after B5, I do wish she had stayed to the end though I think season 5 might have different animal then it turned out to be. As for Thirdspace , i think is was by far the best of the B5 movies, would like to see those come back again, maybe in lost tales.
 
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When did fan wishes become more important than actors taking chances by moving on? It's the nature of the game, you know. And it's a hard game to "win". And she seems to have stayed fairly employed, compared to many actors. Do you consider one season of Babylon 5 to be worth the right for an actor to make choices?

And if you are actually curious about what she did following B5, here's the IMDB on her. Pretty long list of paying jobs after B5, it seems:

IMDB entry

Just as an example, Patrick Stewart left a decades-long career with the Royal Shakespeare Company to (fairly soon after) take on the lead as Capt. Picard in "Star Trek, The Next Generation". How much do you want to bet there were fans of his saying what a horrible mistake he was making?

Actors take chances, or you don't hear about them. Don't confuse your admiration of her with some kind of an obligation she has (had) to her fans. That is what pisses me off hearing the fan moanings about her leaving: if you want to complain about anything, make it how she left, not the fact that she chose to, for goodness sake. :rolleyes:
 
Yea that was pretty much exactly what I meant, you just worded it a lot better. :)

I like Season 5 of B5. Slow at start, but strong ending. Would it have been better if she would have stayed? I think yes, without a doubt. Because of that, would I have liked her to stay? Certainly. But I don't disagree at all with her choice on taking a chance. I think it was the right thing to do...I think she just handled the execution of her departure poorly. Actors definitely have to look out for their careers first.
 
Wow, someone who concedes a point at B5tv.com. Amazing. :thumbsup:

Just kidding, folks. I know I've change many an opinion hearing from others around here. In truth, this can be a very educational place. Just don't tell Antony that. ;)
 
aajay said:
Just re-watched Thirdspace and a timing question popped into my head. The movie takes place between the Shadow war and the Earth-civil war (mid season 4), but was a TNT “presentation”, so it was actually filmed after season 4 filming ended, right?
If so, how was Ivanova/Claudia featured so prominently? Didn’t she opt out before (or just as) TNT got involved? (She is also in In The Beginning, but only one scene).
Andy
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"In the Beginning" and "Thirdspace" were filmed immediately after Season Four finished filming. Not being part of the regular season, the MOVs would have been a separate negotiation with the actors. Plus, as somebody noted, Claudia didn't sign the option extension that everybody else did but assured JMS and John Copeland that she was in if Season Five negotiations were successful. It was up to the last few days of the extended options that the negotiations concluded and the new contracts were faxed to the UK where most of the cast was for a convention. Just as that was happening, an article came out in one of the trades about Claudia not planning to participate. That's how the production company was informed of her opting out of Season Five.

Jan
 
Of course all of that is if you believe JMS' side of the issue, which I am leery of doing. I personally don't know who to believe on that issue as Claudia has proven to be a bit shady and JMS has proven to not be an actor-driven creator at all, and someone who views the story as far more important than any of the actors are.
 
I've personally experienced three different accounts from Claudia and only one from JMS so it's not hard for me to decide whom to believe.

I'm curious, Cell. The way you phrased the above, it sounds as though you don't think the story should be the most important thing?

Jan
 
I think it is very important, but I also believe the actors are an integral part of the storytelling process. You can have the greatest story in the world, but if the actors portraying that story aren't any good then the story won't be any good. JMS has always been of the mind set that the story is all important and that actors are interchangeable pieces that don't really matter, and I don't agree with that at all. In the end it takes a near perfect blend of both acting and storytelling to get something like B5, not just great storytelling alone or great acting alone, but a near perfect blend of both.
 
Actors are not as important as the story teller, you can have story tellers without actors, but you cannot actors without story tellers. What does an actor do essentially , he or she pretends, what does does a story teller do he creates. So really which is the more significant? The Story teller, Actors, for every successful good actor you will find 10 good actors who are not working . you can always find good actors, that can do the job, there are some exceptions to this, but not many.
 
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You can be the greatest storyteller in the world, but in a visual medium you need someone to convey the story to the audience. In the visual medium the actors are just as important as the storyteller, because without them the story doesn't come across in as good of a way. Can you honestly look at B5 and think the story would have been as good if instead of Bruce Boxleitner they would have cast someone like Lorenzo Lamas?
 
Cell said:
JMS has always been of the mind set that the story is all important and that actors are interchangeable pieces that don't really matter, and I don't agree with that at all.
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I can see how you might get that impression but I disagree strongly. There's a big difference between being cognizant of potential real-life events that might effect the story and planning for those and considering the actors disposable or interchangeable.

The best evidence I can offer is the fight to keep the original actors when a group optioned a B5 feature film and commissioned JMS to write the screenplay, The Memory of Shadows. The company never did get a deal put together in order to make the film but one aspect became public and that was that they'd hoped for Warner Bros. to distribute the film. WB, only interested in big names and blockbusters wanted to use big name stars rather than the original actors which JMS fought. If he hadn't done so, we might well have gotten a B5 feature film but not recognized any of the characters.

Was TMoS a story JMS wanted to tell? Evidence supports that since at the Hawthorne Convention, he indicated that it would include at least part of the Crusade story.

What JMS did when faced with real life situations was to move story elements from one character to another but each character was different in their own right.

Jan
 
I suppose Lozenzo Lamas is not the greatest of actors, lets see Falcon Crest, Renegade,The Immortal and few really crappy scif movies, But with the right director and producer you get acceptable performances out of most actors. Or you could go to england and the theater and find good theater actors, who might jump at the chance to do television or movies in Hollywood.
 
Cell the right actor in a drama maybe. but I still think that of the two, storyteller is more important then the actor, yes the actor creates the performance , but its the storyteller that creates the vision. The world where in the performer dwells. Thats the way I look at it.
 
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