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Alternate timelines
- Thread starter jnk5y
- Start date
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
No offence but i really hate when i have to think about time and i end up falling over!If sinclair had'nt left everything would have changed how much we can never know although we can speculate!Which is so ace the show finished in 1999 and here we are still debating and suggesting things!I love a good debate...any way i just got totally off track!Simply put if he never left things would have been totally changed we don't know how or what the outcome would be but as i said we can suggest things!Like if he never left then Valen would probably not be created and human DNA would not be in the minbari genome so the minbari would have fired on earth and humanity would be gone!
------------------
We live for the one!We die for the one!
------------------
We live for the one!We die for the one!
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
Yeah thats what i meant if hadent left to be the Earth Ambassador to minbar he may not have got the letter from himself and become Entil'Zha
------------------
We live for the one!We die for the one!
------------------
We live for the one!We die for the one!
hypatia
Regular
I have always suspected that his transformation into Valen would have ended the series. Just a thought.
------------------
"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo
"I think I speak for Mr. Bloom and myself when I say: you are the only director in the World who can do justice to 'Springtime For Hitler' " - Zero Mostel, The Producers
------------------
"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo
"I think I speak for Mr. Bloom and myself when I say: you are the only director in the World who can do justice to 'Springtime For Hitler' " - Zero Mostel, The Producers
I always though that O'Hare was origanly going to be in the series for a long time. I think that what JMS was saying in that was that the battle of the line story was to be resolved in the middle of season two. Just because we find out that sinclair has Valens soul doesn't mean that he leaves the show. It would apear that he was a reicarnation of Valen then in war without end we would discover that he truly was Valen. The events of war without end would then have taken place in I think season 4 or five. Siclair was always ment to be the one to lead the fight against the shadows.
------------------
Scott Gifford
Please pardon the spelling errors, grammer errors and various sarcastic overtures
------------------
Scott Gifford
Please pardon the spelling errors, grammer errors and various sarcastic overtures
A_Ranger
Regular
Another JMS quote:
How important to the arc is Sheridan?
How critical was Aragorn to the storyline of Lord of the Rings?
So there! When JMS says Sheridan was always intended to be there, belive him (I can't find the exact quote where he says that, but its somewhere at Lurker's Guide. so find it)
------------------
We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it
How important to the arc is Sheridan?
How critical was Aragorn to the storyline of Lord of the Rings?
So there! When JMS says Sheridan was always intended to be there, belive him (I can't find the exact quote where he says that, but its somewhere at Lurker's Guide. so find it)
------------------
We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by A_Ranger:
Another JMS quote:
How important to the arc is Sheridan?
How critical was Aragorn to the storyline of Lord of the Rings?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Never read it. But I intend to, it has gotten high praise from many, and although magic and wizards and gnomes is not my cup of tea, I still think I should give it a shot.
How's that for sidetracking the conversation?
------------------
I am Yu Lau! I am nobody's bitch! You are mine!
Another JMS quote:
How important to the arc is Sheridan?
How critical was Aragorn to the storyline of Lord of the Rings?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Never read it. But I intend to, it has gotten high praise from many, and although magic and wizards and gnomes is not my cup of tea, I still think I should give it a shot.
How's that for sidetracking the conversation?
------------------
I am Yu Lau! I am nobody's bitch! You are mine!
Kribu
Administrator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by solaris5:
Never read it. But I intend to, it has gotten high praise from many, and although magic and wizards and gnomes is not my cup of tea, I still think I should give it a shot.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I just hope you're not seriously thinking that Lord of the Rings is about magic and wizards and gnomes...
It is heavy prose though, parts of which you just have to gnaw yourself through (well, it was written a long time ago when people didn't have a problem with heavy, difficult prose, long sentences etc
).
------------------
"Narns, Humans, Centauri... we all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time." - G'Kar, Mind War
Kribu's Lounge
Never read it. But I intend to, it has gotten high praise from many, and although magic and wizards and gnomes is not my cup of tea, I still think I should give it a shot.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I just hope you're not seriously thinking that Lord of the Rings is about magic and wizards and gnomes...
It is heavy prose though, parts of which you just have to gnaw yourself through (well, it was written a long time ago when people didn't have a problem with heavy, difficult prose, long sentences etc
------------------
"Narns, Humans, Centauri... we all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time." - G'Kar, Mind War
Kribu's Lounge
A_Ranger
Regular
Sinclair was always meant to leave sometime in Season 2!!!!!! Here's a message from JMS up at the Lurkers Guide:
About Michael O'Hare's Departure
As written by J. Michael Straczynski on GEnie, May 20, 1994
I have some news that must be imparted. I think that the best way to convey that news is to start at the end of the story, make my way to the middle, and end at the beginning. So: the end of the story.
Everything is okay. Nothing major really changes. All is well.
Now the middle of the story.
I've been asked, several times, what happens if something happens to me, or one of the cast members, during the five year arc, since this is a fully-worked-out novel. Generally, I blow off the question with humor. But the truth is, obviously, I've taken every possible step to make sure that no one is disappointed. In my case, I've made sure the story is available somewhere.
The trouble, of course, is that unlike writing a novel, where the characters exist only on a sheet of paper, actors and writers are some discussion on the best of days). They can get sick, they can get into contract disputes, they can be hit by meteors, they can decide to buy a house in Cambridge and raise hedgehogs under an assumed name. There are, in short, always unpredictables in any such endeavor.
Consequently, in drafting the story for Babylon 5, I made sure to compensate for any possible changes. For lack of a better term, there is a "trap door" built into the storyline for every character. Obviously, you don't want to lose anyone, but in every case any such change momentarily shifts the story about ten degrees to one side for a little bit, and then you're back on track again.
Case in point: Dr. Benjamin Kyle and Lyta Alexander. Here are the only two humans who have seen or scanned a Vorlon. This is Very Important to the storyline. Alas, as later events unfolded, things did not work out, and the characters were dropped...but their story remained important, in that it was established that they were soon afterward recalled to Earth under mysterious circumstances (as noted in "War Prayer"), which actually helps the storyline in many ways. This is not meant to sound callous. As a writer, and as a producer, it's my job to tell the story, to be responsible, and to make sure every possible contingency is covered. To do anything less would be simply irresponsible.
Now to the beginning of the story.
Over the last few weeks, we've been re-activating our cast, making the deals for the coming season. One aspect of this has been a series of conversations with Michael O'Hare. Having produced one full season, and having learned a lot, and having fine-tuned the "saga" along the way, it was our goal to expand the show, bring in some new characters, and take the show in some new directions, which will prove quite interesting, I think. (One sidelight to all this: now that we've established the series, we'll be able to spend a bit more time on personal stories, to let our audience learn more about the characters, particularly the humans, who kinda got short shrift this season.)
There is also the question, from an actor's point of view, about other opportunities, any possible concern about typecasting, the limitations of a continuing role (and the role of the commander does have some definite "walls," giving more freedom in many ways to other characters). Now is the point where one needs to take a breath and assess one's future, because the deeper we get into the story, the more problematic it is to change things (though, again, it's do-able, as noted above).
As a result of these discussions, it has been agreed that we will have a separation, in the role of the commander. Let me emphasize this very clearly, so there is no chance of miscommunication: this is a mutual, amicable, and friendly separation. This isn't a Tasha Yar situation. Moreover, we will be handling this in such a way that, down the road, Sinclair could potentially return to the story. The character of Sinclair will achieve an important destiny, and the mystery of the Battle of the Line will be explained, both in the first episode of the new season. His story will still track. And the series will still track precisely as planned. I take pains to mention this because both Michael and I want it clear that we both believe in the show, and want this in no way to interfere with the series. He has asked me to convey for him his encouragement, his best wishes, and to emphasize that this is, again, an amicable and friendly separation.
He has said that he is happy to continue to do the conventions, to promote the show, because he believes in it, and because he is an important part of this season's success. We can think of no finer ambassador for Babylon 5 at conventions than Michael O'Hare. He is a dynamite speaker, he cares about the fans of the show, and his compassion shows. We think he's a nifty guy.
On our part, we wish Michael only the very best. We know that he is very much in demand, and look forward to seeing him in other projects over the next year. This will also allow us to pursue some new directions avenues for the show that will help to expedite the overall story. Sinclair disappearing for an indeterminate period after the events of "Chrysalis" will allow us to tighten the screws of the story, and heighten the tension of things going on in the storyline.
If I can speak personally for a moment...those of you reading this on-line know that I've always talked straight with you. If I thought this in any way would interfere with the story, you'd hear about it from me loud and clear. When problems have arisen in the past, I've always spoken about them quite bluntly here (much to the chagrin of some people). This is okay. We're all still very much friends. I speak frequently to Michael, and consider him a friend, just as he considers me a friend. This was a hard decision, but we both knew that it was the right decision, for very different reasons. We both kinda came to the same place at the same time from different directions. We've got to do what's right for the show, and for each other, and in many ways, this does just that.
So both we on the show, and Michael are served by this mutual and amicable separation. We will go our separate ways for now, with the possibility of meeting Sinclair again down the road a piece, as Gandalf disappeared for a time into Mordor, only to return when needed most. (We will also be keeping the character of Sinclair alive in the comic, and some of the planned novels, to keep that option available to us.)
Once again, let me emphasize that the story continues on the path that has been set for it, everything you learn this season sill obtains, the show remains solid, with all of the other cast members coming back for a new season, and that the saga of Babylon 5 will continue to reveal itself exactly as planned. And I hope you will continue to stay with us for that journey.
Sincerely,
Joe Straczynski
Creator/Executive Producer
BABYLON 5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Replies to the Usenet discussion about the above
Please do not stick this on O'Hare. Whatever decisions get made, it is up to the producers -- me and Doug -- to implement those decisions, so ultimate responsibility rests with me. If you're going to be angry at anyone, be angry at me. Your anger is misplaced.
Again, this was mutual. We looked at the story, the way a novelist looks at a novel he's one-fifth through writing, and you learn things writing the novel that you can learn NO other way, however much you plan and outline. And at some point, you say, "If we leave things JUST as they are, no changes, we can do X and Y, which are both very cool. But if we take a chance, and make some shifts in direction, we can do X, and Y...and Z...and Z is very interesting indeed. It opens up whole new areas for us to explore. So we talked about it with Michael, who had some thoughts of his own...and now here we are.
Granted, it's taking a chance. But we all swore a blood oath to make the show consistently better. Any time a possible decision comes up -- like, Should we do "Believers," knowing that it'll get us in ENDLESS trouble -- we ask, "Will this benefit the show?" If the answer is yes, we do it, regardless.
Once again, this is mutual. So blame me. And be assured, this isn't now going to be a band-aid covering...it will let us get deeper and faster into the meat of the storyline, and intensify the characterizations and relationships. Sinclair's purpose in the large part of the first section of the story was really to get everyone together...to start the pieces moving. And now we've got all the players in position. The whole 24 hours/Line thread was always going to be resolved at the top of year two, because you can't sustain that for more than 1.5 seasons at MOST. The audience, rightly, won't stand for it. At that point, that mystery dispensed with (which would lead to other questions), Sinclair kinda faded a bit from the story, because now we have to bring the other players into the foreground. So if he's going to fade anyway, why have him meandering around? Why not "absent" him for a time...and up the stakes for everyone else, and help focus on other aspects?
The story will go where it was always going to go. This much is certain.
jms
---
The Battle of the Line and the hole in Sinclair's mind was always intended as the entry point or trigger to the story. It's like Frodo being given the Ring in LoTR. The story isn't about that, that's how we get INTO it. Frankly, there's no way you can sustain that one element for five years, nor did we ever intend to do so.
The only difference in the resolution of that aspect is this: we had originally intended to resolve the missing 24 hours, and the Battle of the Line, by episode four, season two. We've simply moved it up 3 eps to the first episode. Because new players are coming onto the field, in the form of the Shadowmen, and other forces, and we now have to begin turning our attention to new mysteries.
jms
------------------
We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it
About Michael O'Hare's Departure
As written by J. Michael Straczynski on GEnie, May 20, 1994
I have some news that must be imparted. I think that the best way to convey that news is to start at the end of the story, make my way to the middle, and end at the beginning. So: the end of the story.
Everything is okay. Nothing major really changes. All is well.
Now the middle of the story.
I've been asked, several times, what happens if something happens to me, or one of the cast members, during the five year arc, since this is a fully-worked-out novel. Generally, I blow off the question with humor. But the truth is, obviously, I've taken every possible step to make sure that no one is disappointed. In my case, I've made sure the story is available somewhere.
The trouble, of course, is that unlike writing a novel, where the characters exist only on a sheet of paper, actors and writers are some discussion on the best of days). They can get sick, they can get into contract disputes, they can be hit by meteors, they can decide to buy a house in Cambridge and raise hedgehogs under an assumed name. There are, in short, always unpredictables in any such endeavor.
Consequently, in drafting the story for Babylon 5, I made sure to compensate for any possible changes. For lack of a better term, there is a "trap door" built into the storyline for every character. Obviously, you don't want to lose anyone, but in every case any such change momentarily shifts the story about ten degrees to one side for a little bit, and then you're back on track again.
Case in point: Dr. Benjamin Kyle and Lyta Alexander. Here are the only two humans who have seen or scanned a Vorlon. This is Very Important to the storyline. Alas, as later events unfolded, things did not work out, and the characters were dropped...but their story remained important, in that it was established that they were soon afterward recalled to Earth under mysterious circumstances (as noted in "War Prayer"), which actually helps the storyline in many ways. This is not meant to sound callous. As a writer, and as a producer, it's my job to tell the story, to be responsible, and to make sure every possible contingency is covered. To do anything less would be simply irresponsible.
Now to the beginning of the story.
Over the last few weeks, we've been re-activating our cast, making the deals for the coming season. One aspect of this has been a series of conversations with Michael O'Hare. Having produced one full season, and having learned a lot, and having fine-tuned the "saga" along the way, it was our goal to expand the show, bring in some new characters, and take the show in some new directions, which will prove quite interesting, I think. (One sidelight to all this: now that we've established the series, we'll be able to spend a bit more time on personal stories, to let our audience learn more about the characters, particularly the humans, who kinda got short shrift this season.)
There is also the question, from an actor's point of view, about other opportunities, any possible concern about typecasting, the limitations of a continuing role (and the role of the commander does have some definite "walls," giving more freedom in many ways to other characters). Now is the point where one needs to take a breath and assess one's future, because the deeper we get into the story, the more problematic it is to change things (though, again, it's do-able, as noted above).
As a result of these discussions, it has been agreed that we will have a separation, in the role of the commander. Let me emphasize this very clearly, so there is no chance of miscommunication: this is a mutual, amicable, and friendly separation. This isn't a Tasha Yar situation. Moreover, we will be handling this in such a way that, down the road, Sinclair could potentially return to the story. The character of Sinclair will achieve an important destiny, and the mystery of the Battle of the Line will be explained, both in the first episode of the new season. His story will still track. And the series will still track precisely as planned. I take pains to mention this because both Michael and I want it clear that we both believe in the show, and want this in no way to interfere with the series. He has asked me to convey for him his encouragement, his best wishes, and to emphasize that this is, again, an amicable and friendly separation.
He has said that he is happy to continue to do the conventions, to promote the show, because he believes in it, and because he is an important part of this season's success. We can think of no finer ambassador for Babylon 5 at conventions than Michael O'Hare. He is a dynamite speaker, he cares about the fans of the show, and his compassion shows. We think he's a nifty guy.
On our part, we wish Michael only the very best. We know that he is very much in demand, and look forward to seeing him in other projects over the next year. This will also allow us to pursue some new directions avenues for the show that will help to expedite the overall story. Sinclair disappearing for an indeterminate period after the events of "Chrysalis" will allow us to tighten the screws of the story, and heighten the tension of things going on in the storyline.
If I can speak personally for a moment...those of you reading this on-line know that I've always talked straight with you. If I thought this in any way would interfere with the story, you'd hear about it from me loud and clear. When problems have arisen in the past, I've always spoken about them quite bluntly here (much to the chagrin of some people). This is okay. We're all still very much friends. I speak frequently to Michael, and consider him a friend, just as he considers me a friend. This was a hard decision, but we both knew that it was the right decision, for very different reasons. We both kinda came to the same place at the same time from different directions. We've got to do what's right for the show, and for each other, and in many ways, this does just that.
So both we on the show, and Michael are served by this mutual and amicable separation. We will go our separate ways for now, with the possibility of meeting Sinclair again down the road a piece, as Gandalf disappeared for a time into Mordor, only to return when needed most. (We will also be keeping the character of Sinclair alive in the comic, and some of the planned novels, to keep that option available to us.)
Once again, let me emphasize that the story continues on the path that has been set for it, everything you learn this season sill obtains, the show remains solid, with all of the other cast members coming back for a new season, and that the saga of Babylon 5 will continue to reveal itself exactly as planned. And I hope you will continue to stay with us for that journey.
Sincerely,
Joe Straczynski
Creator/Executive Producer
BABYLON 5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Replies to the Usenet discussion about the above
Please do not stick this on O'Hare. Whatever decisions get made, it is up to the producers -- me and Doug -- to implement those decisions, so ultimate responsibility rests with me. If you're going to be angry at anyone, be angry at me. Your anger is misplaced.
Again, this was mutual. We looked at the story, the way a novelist looks at a novel he's one-fifth through writing, and you learn things writing the novel that you can learn NO other way, however much you plan and outline. And at some point, you say, "If we leave things JUST as they are, no changes, we can do X and Y, which are both very cool. But if we take a chance, and make some shifts in direction, we can do X, and Y...and Z...and Z is very interesting indeed. It opens up whole new areas for us to explore. So we talked about it with Michael, who had some thoughts of his own...and now here we are.
Granted, it's taking a chance. But we all swore a blood oath to make the show consistently better. Any time a possible decision comes up -- like, Should we do "Believers," knowing that it'll get us in ENDLESS trouble -- we ask, "Will this benefit the show?" If the answer is yes, we do it, regardless.
Once again, this is mutual. So blame me. And be assured, this isn't now going to be a band-aid covering...it will let us get deeper and faster into the meat of the storyline, and intensify the characterizations and relationships. Sinclair's purpose in the large part of the first section of the story was really to get everyone together...to start the pieces moving. And now we've got all the players in position. The whole 24 hours/Line thread was always going to be resolved at the top of year two, because you can't sustain that for more than 1.5 seasons at MOST. The audience, rightly, won't stand for it. At that point, that mystery dispensed with (which would lead to other questions), Sinclair kinda faded a bit from the story, because now we have to bring the other players into the foreground. So if he's going to fade anyway, why have him meandering around? Why not "absent" him for a time...and up the stakes for everyone else, and help focus on other aspects?
The story will go where it was always going to go. This much is certain.
jms
---
The Battle of the Line and the hole in Sinclair's mind was always intended as the entry point or trigger to the story. It's like Frodo being given the Ring in LoTR. The story isn't about that, that's how we get INTO it. Frankly, there's no way you can sustain that one element for five years, nor did we ever intend to do so.
The only difference in the resolution of that aspect is this: we had originally intended to resolve the missing 24 hours, and the Battle of the Line, by episode four, season two. We've simply moved it up 3 eps to the first episode. Because new players are coming onto the field, in the form of the Shadowmen, and other forces, and we now have to begin turning our attention to new mysteries.
jms
------------------
We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it
Mr. Bester
Beyond the rim
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by A_Ranger:
Another JMS quote:
Sinclair was always meant to leave sometime in Season 2!!!!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Excuse me for my stupidity, but where does JMS say that. All he does say is that we'd see that Sinclair has a minbari soul and that it would be better to get rid of him for season 2 since he would be doing nothing for part of it.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
JMS says Sheridan was always intended to be there<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, but we don't what kind of role he was going to play. IMHO judging from his character I'd say he would play the role of General Hague as the guy who starts the conspiracy against Clark.
------------------
Another JMS quote:
Sinclair was always meant to leave sometime in Season 2!!!!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Excuse me for my stupidity, but where does JMS say that. All he does say is that we'd see that Sinclair has a minbari soul and that it would be better to get rid of him for season 2 since he would be doing nothing for part of it.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
JMS says Sheridan was always intended to be there<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, but we don't what kind of role he was going to play. IMHO judging from his character I'd say he would play the role of General Hague as the guy who starts the conspiracy against Clark.
------------------
Kribu
Administrator
I read The Hobbit for the first time when I was about five. I loved it.
I guess you could say that The Hobbit is a bit more like a children's book... dragons and gnomes and wizards and all that. It's the introduction to The Lord of the Rings but can be treated like a separate (kids') story with a definite ending.
LOTR itself is definitely not a kids' story, though - I would even suspect that it's far too heavy and difficult for younger (i.e. pre-teen) readers.
Basically, it's the age-old story about the fight between good and evil, personal sacrifice, courage and faith and friendship, having the heart to be the hero even when you're small and weak and alone and seemingly insignificant - being a hero even when you are afraid, and risk death without anyone remembering you...
The wizards and magic and dragons and other fantasy creatures are just the superficial stuff. It's about people... with all their faults and good sides.
------------------
"Narns, Humans, Centauri... we all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time." - G'Kar, Mind War
Kribu's Lounge
I guess you could say that The Hobbit is a bit more like a children's book... dragons and gnomes and wizards and all that. It's the introduction to The Lord of the Rings but can be treated like a separate (kids') story with a definite ending.
LOTR itself is definitely not a kids' story, though - I would even suspect that it's far too heavy and difficult for younger (i.e. pre-teen) readers.
Basically, it's the age-old story about the fight between good and evil, personal sacrifice, courage and faith and friendship, having the heart to be the hero even when you're small and weak and alone and seemingly insignificant - being a hero even when you are afraid, and risk death without anyone remembering you...
The wizards and magic and dragons and other fantasy creatures are just the superficial stuff. It's about people... with all their faults and good sides.
------------------
"Narns, Humans, Centauri... we all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time." - G'Kar, Mind War
Kribu's Lounge
Galahad
Regular
Are you sure that JMS was referring to the character of Sheridan or the archetype?
JMS has a thing about archetypes. Not only using them, but changing characters between different archetypes.
Kosh was the archetypical mentor, who takes the hero character to a point and then is taken away due to plot development.
JMS said that when he explained the meaning of "You have always been here" and "I have always been here".
Essentially Sheridan and Sinclair fulfill the same archetype.
JMS did want to find a stronger way of tying the central character to Z'Ha'Dum and the Shadows. To involve Sinclair, Catherine Sakai would probably have been wasted in the "Anna Sheridan" way of thinking. I think bringing Sheridan in was more credible anyway, as to have Sinclair tied in so strongly to everything would be stretching things a little.
The mentor, the hero, and every archetype under the sun, they have always existed in some form or other in both history and literature.
Back to the original question though. I don't think you can dismiss it that easily. Remember in the video from sector 14, the Babylon station was still there (this is a reality where Sinclair has not changed the past).
If you take one miniscule element of the past and change it, you will change the future in a massive way.
Think about it... no B4, Minbari fight the Shadows on the run, and probably scrape through with a decimated fleet and race. Maybe after a 100 years they are not as advanced, or as numerous.
They encounter the humans... maybe because history has changed, there is no war, or the outcome is more favourable to mankind... otherwise how would there be humans on B5 in the alternate 2260? With the Minbari having no reason to surrender (no Valen), something BIG must have changed in the alternate timeline.
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Back when I was a kid in Sunday School, Father Minkowski once said: "Given the crucifixion was a terrible thing for anyone to endure, if you could go back in time 2200 years, would you prevent the crucifixion of Christ?" Well after a heated debate, we all agreed the answer was no. The crucifixion was necessary to redeem the world. - Lt. John Matheson "The Needs of Earth"
"We live for the One. We die for the One!"
JMS has a thing about archetypes. Not only using them, but changing characters between different archetypes.
Kosh was the archetypical mentor, who takes the hero character to a point and then is taken away due to plot development.
JMS said that when he explained the meaning of "You have always been here" and "I have always been here".
Essentially Sheridan and Sinclair fulfill the same archetype.
JMS did want to find a stronger way of tying the central character to Z'Ha'Dum and the Shadows. To involve Sinclair, Catherine Sakai would probably have been wasted in the "Anna Sheridan" way of thinking. I think bringing Sheridan in was more credible anyway, as to have Sinclair tied in so strongly to everything would be stretching things a little.
The mentor, the hero, and every archetype under the sun, they have always existed in some form or other in both history and literature.
Back to the original question though. I don't think you can dismiss it that easily. Remember in the video from sector 14, the Babylon station was still there (this is a reality where Sinclair has not changed the past).
If you take one miniscule element of the past and change it, you will change the future in a massive way.
Think about it... no B4, Minbari fight the Shadows on the run, and probably scrape through with a decimated fleet and race. Maybe after a 100 years they are not as advanced, or as numerous.
They encounter the humans... maybe because history has changed, there is no war, or the outcome is more favourable to mankind... otherwise how would there be humans on B5 in the alternate 2260? With the Minbari having no reason to surrender (no Valen), something BIG must have changed in the alternate timeline.
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Back when I was a kid in Sunday School, Father Minkowski once said: "Given the crucifixion was a terrible thing for anyone to endure, if you could go back in time 2200 years, would you prevent the crucifixion of Christ?" Well after a heated debate, we all agreed the answer was no. The crucifixion was necessary to redeem the world. - Lt. John Matheson "The Needs of Earth"
"We live for the One. We die for the One!"
A_Ranger
Regular
More JMS:
Sheridan wasn't a "backup" for Sinclair, he was brought in specifically because I needed somene who could and would do things in a different way, and had a different arc. If it was going to track 1-to-1 you wouldn't *need* a new character
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We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it
Sheridan wasn't a "backup" for Sinclair, he was brought in specifically because I needed somene who could and would do things in a different way, and had a different arc. If it was going to track 1-to-1 you wouldn't *need* a new character
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We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it
A_Ranger
Regular
Sorry, but once again more JMS:
Did you work out the circular sequence of events as you went, or was it all mapped out beforehand?
No, it all has to hang together, or it's kinda useless. It just required working out the details of what was, is, and will be. Then I walked on water....
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We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it
Did you work out the circular sequence of events as you went, or was it all mapped out beforehand?
No, it all has to hang together, or it's kinda useless. It just required working out the details of what was, is, and will be. Then I walked on water....
------------------
We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by solaris5:
Interesting....
Well, I don't know if I'll like it, but I am definitely not the type that enjoys wizards and dragons and stuff, so that's probably why I lost interest in The Hobbit.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I can only assume you are definitely not going to see Harry Potter.
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I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
Interesting....
Well, I don't know if I'll like it, but I am definitely not the type that enjoys wizards and dragons and stuff, so that's probably why I lost interest in The Hobbit.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I can only assume you are definitely not going to see Harry Potter.
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I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
Kribu
Administrator
Sol: if you manage to look past the wizards and magic and dragons, you might be pleasantly surprised.
Then again, you might not.
Not everyone likes everything. And that's as it should be.
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"Narns, Humans, Centauri... we all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time." - G'Kar, Mind War
Kribu's Lounge
Then again, you might not.
Not everyone likes everything. And that's as it should be.
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"Narns, Humans, Centauri... we all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time." - G'Kar, Mind War
Kribu's Lounge
