Sleeping in light

I've seen it a million times but i can't watch that episode without crying a river. Ok, i tear up at the lamest stuff so is there anyone out there that can make it through with getting all emotional?

It's funny, one of the best episodes and the 2 best characters (most people will agree) Londo and Gkar aren't even in it.

Just felt like writing something down.

------------------

It is a very tearfull episode along with War without end pt2

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>where Londo tells Sheriden and Delenn to help free his people and then Gkar and Londo die in this episode</font></td></tr></table>



------------------
"When it is time, come to this place, call our name, we will be here" -Walkers of Sigma957

*reaches for the tissues*
don't even mention crying type episodes... I choke up just thinking about them.
Also to side track to the books, I cried at the end of the technomages book two


<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Where Carvin dies instead of Elric... though I probably would have cried if Elric died too - they're both among my favourite characters, even if Carvin was one of those disposable types that just had to die </font></td></tr></table>


I even got all chokey when I accidentally clicked on season 3 instead of season 2 and found out what happened to Marcus and Ivanova (now that was a BAD mistake to make)...


------------------
I have not lost my mind... it's backed up on disk somewhere!

I haven't read the technomages trilogy but I have read the Centauri ones. Whitestar 90, War without End part 2 pales in comparison at what you read in the book. That's the thig about TV. They can only tell so much on a character's feelings.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> The part where Londo and G'Kar were fighting? The book described the feeling of both. For Londo, his mind was detached as the keeper was doing the fighting. For G'Kar, his entire focus and rage was upon the creature attached to his shoulders. He poured his strength into crushing that creature instead of Londo. And Londo..... he saw Adira Tyree just before he died, reaching out to him, telling him there was nothing to fear. "I'll be my own man!!" he howled at his keeper and touched Adira's hand where he at last, died. </font></td></tr></table>




So passes the great Londo Mollari, remembered not for his deeds, but what he might become.

I still think Sleeping in Light is the best finale ever. Especially the tearful scene between Delenn and Sheridan. And of course, the honor guard of ships leaving Babylon 5 before its destruction.

Long live JMS!!! May he have no writer's block!!

------------------
May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.

Ditto here cries a river of tears when it is shown

------------------

Yes, no matter how many times I have seen it I can't help but cry, in fact I'm tearing up now just thinking about it. Even so I still have to watch it every time. There are others that tear me up to, but not like this one. Having the "double whammy" of Sheridan/Delenn, and the end of Babylon 5 is just too much.

------------------
"And what is it that you're getting Adira, a washed up old republican, dreaming of better days?" - Ambassador Londo Mollari, Born to the Purple

I know a couple of interesting things about SiL.

1) The scene with John and Delenn crying. Mira Furlan was really in tears, because the brooch she had on was diggin in really sharp because of the tight clinch! I know she's cried in episodes like Ship of Tears for personal reasons too.

2) When Sheridan puts his uniform on, you can see a cross in the mirror reflection over his shoulder. This was serendipitous. While everyone broke up for a coffee during filming, jms took a final look through the viewfinder and was struck dumb. It was there just by accident, but he gave strict instructions that NO-ONE move the mirror, the shot helps to illustrate the kind of role jms believed Sheridan was performing.

It's the music that gets me, especially when the station goes up... poor old jms toasted himself The fact we have walked the length and breadth of the station through five years, and we know it's story makes it a real sad scene when it finally goes. Notice Earth only sends it's retro ships to see of B5. Mind you that's probably a very important point, each race sending a vessel that was in service at the time of B5's zenith.

If you look very closely, you can see Draal and the 9 remaining Zathras brothers jumping up and down in rage at the EA litterbugs, before producing holographic brooms and sweeping up all the debris

------------------
Back when I was a kid in Sunday School, Father Minkowski once said: "Given the crucifixion was a terrible thing for anyone to endure, if you could go back in time 2200 years, would you prevent the crucifixion of Christ?" Well after a heated debate, we all agreed the answer was no. The crucifixion was necessary to redeem the world. - Lt. John Matheson "The Needs of Earth"

"We live for the One. We die for the One!"

LOL@Galahad.... yes, indeed - how inconsiderate of Earth Force... they really should have asked the Zathri what they wanted done with the station


AngelSummers.... yes I thought of the Centauri trilogy too... there's just sooo many teary moments in B5. I highly recommend the Technomage Books (specially since the last one's out soon). I don't know how easy it would be to get your hands on them (I went to Melbourne earlier this year and snapped up all three trilogies on the spot because you just CAN'T get them in Hobart), but they are riveting... the insight into the Mages is fascinating.

*sigh* yes I get teary at the music too

------------------
I have not lost my mind... it's backed up on disk somewhere!

Getting B5 material is not impossible thanks to a few shops that specify in sci-fi and fantasy in Perth. One in particular, called Supernova has most of the B5 range of books but somehow, it never bothered me to see the technomage series. I bought the Centauri because I wanted to know the details of the Drakh War. I even got a bonus in knowing Excalibur DID find a cure in the end.

You sure the technomage series is good? Does it make up for the lost of Crusade? Or for that matter, explain a lot of the origin of technomages?

BTW, I'm studying how to play B5 Wars, a board game that pits ships against ships. Mayhaps one day, I'll travel to Melbourne and meet you people.

------------------
May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.

I agree with Galahad about the music for Sleeping in Light. The music is beautiful and very touching. I have the soundtrack and whenever I listen to it, I don't cry. But when I watch the episode and see the station blown up to that same music, then I want to cry.

------------------
The Whitestar Salad Bar, the galaxy's best place for parties.

This is why Crusade failed. Because the music was fucking lousy and non-soulinspiring. I know TNT also interfered with the script but arguable, Evan Chen is the worst mistake JMS ever made.

Thank God Christopher Franke is doing Rangers. Get ready to cry again fellas.!!

------------------
May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.

Well, I know it's probably illegal immoral AND fattening. However, is it not possible to re-edit Crusade and ACtA from the master tapes and do a "special edition" with Christopher Franke's interpretation of events and storyline. At the very least it would be an interesting excercise. It might also produce revenue if a boxed set of videos was sold in this condition. You could also maybe persuade A broadcaster to tag them to the end of a B5 run and promote it, of course it might be a good idea to stick a few deleted scenes in to the "specials" too... just not any that had been filmed to TNT's plotline amendment specifications!

However this would be a slap in Evan Chen's face, no artiste appreciates being cut out of past work.

Both he and jms embarked on a daring experiment, to bring eastern musical scales to a primarily western audience.

------------------
Back when I was a kid in Sunday School, Father Minkowski once said: "Given the crucifixion was a terrible thing for anyone to endure, if you could go back in time 2200 years, would you prevent the crucifixion of Christ?" Well after a heated debate, we all agreed the answer was no. The crucifixion was necessary to redeem the world. - Lt. John Matheson "The Needs of Earth"

"We live for the One. We die for the One!"

I suspect that, if approached for such a project, Chris Franke would turn the offer down Flat.

I'm sure JMS would vote NO!
He's not one for insulting his friends.

It's done. Finished. For better or worse.

Some people like it. Some don't.
None of us have the right to insult the people who created it.
Demanding a "re-do" Would be an insult.



------------------
The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AngelSummers:
This is why Crusade failed. Because the music was fucking lousy and non-soulinspiring. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here we go again. Crusade didn't last long enough to have soul-inspiring episodes. Compare the sound track from, say, Parliament of Dreams to a Crusade sound track, and tell me if either one is necessarily "better".

-g



------------------

Never mind about what I said about Crusade. I just didn't find it as good as B5. In fact, a pale shadow of B5. Only episode I enjoyed was "Path of Sorrows".

Forget it. I didn't like it but I'm not gonna insult people who do. My apologies.

------------------
May the light of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha protect you.

May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.

bakana believe it or not, I agree with you

I actually found that the Crusade music grew on me gradually, and that is why I thought it immoral to do a re-do, jms is a man of honour and it would be dishonourable to tipp ex out somebody elses work. Creative people are like that, they don't sting other people because theyknow what it feels like to be stung (ref: JMS vs TNT).

I was sort of playing Devil's Advocate.

Besisdes, Farscape's music sounds really unorthodox, isn't that done on a non-Western scale? Yet that is going strong.

We all know why Crusade fell, beurocracy and lack of faith.

We know there were twists coming for Crusade, but *** (I don't event want to say their name now) didn't want intrigue plot and quality drama, they wanted sex violence and stereotyping. Formula poop! By the way I think jms differentiated between the creative dept of *** and their admin dept. it was the latter that messed it all up, as ironically and beautifully spoofed by JMS in appearances and other deceipts.

I want to see Crusade come back, I hope the astronomical odds are overthrown and creativity wins over beurocracy.

Music and all!

------------------
Back when I was a kid in Sunday School, Father Minkowski once said: "Given the crucifixion was a terrible thing for anyone to endure, if you could go back in time 2200 years, would you prevent the crucifixion of Christ?" Well after a heated debate, we all agreed the answer was no. The crucifixion was necessary to redeem the world. - Lt. John Matheson "The Needs of Earth"

"We live for the One. We die for the One!"

Well.. Music in Crusade wasn't so bad, and we cannot judge Chen's artwork because we (as mentioned before) haven't seen all of the series. E.Chen is good composer and with his musical style cannot be compared to Franke. That's my opinion and it's rock solid.

------------------
Logical thinking - Perfect weapon

When it comes to comparing Franke's music and Chen's, I think Franke's is way better. The only bit of Chen's music I like is the opening credits music for Crusade, and the soundtrack from ACTA. Franke, on the other hand I really like. I think his B5 music is just plain kick-butt awesome. I think that Franke's music goes along well with the show and that it helps set the mood for what is going on in each of the episodes. I can put a Franke CD in, especially the Vol. 2 soundtrack and blast it real loud.

------------------
The Whitestar Salad Bar, the galaxy's best place for parties.

Interesting turn this thread has taken

Personally I love Evan Chen's music, I think there is a lot to be said for daring to try something original and different after 5 years of Christopher Franke's stunning and epic work on B5.

As a musician and songwriter I always find it interesting to hear different perspectives on my work - one of my songs divides people in the same way as EC's Crusade soundtrack. Some love it, some hate it, nothing in between.

For another example, consider the fuss over Enterprise's song, and how many fans want Jerry Goldsmith back!

One of the problems Chen had was in bringing Eastern style (and scaled) music to a Western TV show. It does take some getting used to.

Ultimately music is always going to be subjective, and no musician would have it any other way. My only disappointment is in seeing how many people equate "I don't like this" to "This is rubbish". Those two responses are not interchangeable.

------------------
DaveC
"The lunch has already started,
it is too late for the sandwiches to vote"

I love Franke's music for B5. I have 13 of his B5 CD's. I think the music just goes perfectly with the show. I have not found a better scene/music match in too many other TV shows.

------------------
The Whitestar Salad Bar, the galaxy's best place for parties.