B5TV.COM. Babylon 5 forums Babylon 5 message for the fans from Claudia Christian Babylon 5

Go Back   B5TV.COM > Babylon 5, Crusade and Rangers > B5.world

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 29th 18, 21:24   #21
Looney
Ambassador
 
Looney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Middle West U.S.
Posts: 456
Re: Biggest unanswered questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshFan View Post
what I do not admit is that "canon" necessarily means "good"!
HAHAHA

I think the perfect example of this is Book #7, The Shadow Within. I love that JMS says half the book is canon.

I remember when the original books started coming out in the 90's. I think Book #3 Blood Oath was where I REALLY started saying "HOLD THE PHONE!!!!!". I remember the description of Narn was soooooo incredibly far from what I imagined that it made me mad. I really felt the person writing the book had not seen the series. Oddly enough I started reading these books before I had seen Season One. I guess the first two books didn't throw me off because I was always thinking I was missing something having not seen Season One when it originally aired.

Anyway I still need to read those trilogies. I'm not going to lie that I am a little afraid that I will have another Blood Oath moment, but like Jan said these books are from JMS' outlines so I'm sure that won't happen . . . . too often.
Looney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th 18, 23:34   #22
Springer
Ambassador
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 408
Re: Biggest unanswered questions...

I read somewhere that George Lucas once stated that there were different types of Star Wars canon. There's the movies-only canon, the old expanded-Universe canon, the new Disney canon and so on. And that whichever one you wished to follow, that was okay. People could choose what they wanted in their own personal canon. I don't see why it can't be the same for B5.
Springer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th 18, 11:14   #23
Jan
Psi Cop
 
Jan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,894
Re: Biggest unanswered questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshFan View Post
I readily admit the trilogies are canon; I also admit that JMS's explanation for how Londo's three prophecies shake out is canon; what I do not admit is that "canon" necessarily means "good"!
Good point. Trouble is, far too many people think that "good" = "what I like" or "how I think it should have been".
__________________
"You know, I used to think that life was terribly unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair? If all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." ~~Marcus Cole
Jan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th 18, 13:47   #24
Looney
Ambassador
 
Looney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Middle West U.S.
Posts: 456
Re: Biggest unanswered questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan View Post
[

Good point. Trouble is, far too many people think that "good" = "what I like" or "how I think it should have been".
So true, Jan. It is fun that people think things would be better if it were how they "think it should have been." because everyone knows by now things are only better if they are how Looney thinks they should have been.



And don't even tell me I am wrong about Book #3 because there is no way I am wrong about that not being in anyone's canon. (I wish I could read it without associating it to B5.)

And saying this doesn't mean one couldn't make changes that would make it even better. There are things in B5 that could be changed to make it even better, but that is not to say they are things that would necessarily change the overall story. Hindsight means you can always see tweaks here and there that would make things gel better without losing important things. I don't just mean unforeseen issues that cropped up causing things to be changed, more like dialogue that could be added to establish some things more concretely (and some dialogue here and there that was delivered better ). Of course I am a FIRM believer that just about every episode should have been at least 90 mins, so JMS could flesh out the Universe even more. I love the little details and longer scripts could have been full of them. And now I've started telling you my secrets to how B5 could be even better.

Last edited by Looney; June 30th 18 at 13:50.
Looney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th 18, 18:03   #25
Jan
Psi Cop
 
Jan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,894
Re: Biggest unanswered questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looney View Post
Of course I am a FIRM believer that just about every episode should have been at least 90 mins, so JMS could flesh out the Universe even more. I love the little details and longer scripts could have been full of them. And now I've started telling you my secrets to how B5 could be even better.
Perhaps. But I liked JMS' answer when I asked him what the ideal length and number of episodes per season would be in an ideal world:

Quote:
>In an ideal 'JMS sets the standards' world, what do you think would be the
>optimum length for a television episode? What about the number of episodes
>to
>constitute a season?

You have to understand that I'm a Russian, and we're not known for telling
short stories. So for me an episode would be perfect at 60 minutes, no
commercials, and a season would have 52 episodes per year.

What can I say, I yammer....
__________________
"You know, I used to think that life was terribly unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair? If all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." ~~Marcus Cole
Jan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th 18, 19:38   #26
Looney
Ambassador
 
Looney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Middle West U.S.
Posts: 456
Re: Biggest unanswered questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looney View Post
Of course I am a FIRM believer that just about every episode should have been at least 90 mins, so JMS could flesh out the Universe even more. I love the little details and longer scripts could have been full of them. And now I've started telling you my secrets to how B5 could be even better.
Perhaps. But I liked JMS' answer when I asked him what the ideal length and number of episodes per season would be in an ideal world:

Quote:
>In an ideal 'JMS sets the standards' world, what do you think would be the
>optimum length for a television episode? What about the number of episodes
>to
>constitute a season?

You have to understand that I'm a Russian, and we're not known for telling
short stories. So for me an episode would be perfect at 60 minutes, no
commercials, and a season would have 52 episodes per year.

What can I say, I yammer....
Do you realize you just proved my point?!?!?!?! 60 minute episode with no commercials would be about the same length as a 90 minute episode with commercials.

And I am not ashamed to admit when I read "60 minute episode with no commercials" and "52 episodes per year" the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. What a glorious Season that would be.....
Looney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th 18, 21:45   #27
Jan
Psi Cop
 
Jan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,894
Re: Biggest unanswered questions...

Great minds think alike...
__________________
"You know, I used to think that life was terribly unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair? If all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." ~~Marcus Cole
Jan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st 18, 00:22   #28
KoshFan
Soul Hunter
 
KoshFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The upper left-hand corner of the US
Posts: 10,633
Re: Biggest unanswered questions...

I've gotta disagree on this one. Writers work best when under limitations. I just finished Stephen King's book "On Writing," and one of his secrets is that the second draft should be 10% shorter than the first one. And Joss Whedon once said of Buffy that the writing simply had to be as good as possible because "We couldn't hide bad writing with a dog-and-pony show, because we couldn't afford the pony."

I think if JMS had had total freedom to write 50 hour-long eps, the show would have been too overgrown, too shaggy, and downright stale. The Robert Jordan of science fiction television.

Keep it focused. Show what has to be there. And always leave the audience wanting more.
__________________
Know what you do.

The Generous Grasp
KoshFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st 18, 00:59   #29
Looney
Ambassador
 
Looney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Middle West U.S.
Posts: 456
Re: Biggest unanswered questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshFan View Post
I've gotta disagree on this one. Writers work best when under limitations. I just finished Stephen King's book "On Writing," and one of his secrets is that the second draft should be 10% shorter than the first one. And Joss Whedon once said of Buffy that the writing simply had to be as good as possible because "We couldn't hide bad writing with a dog-and-pony show, because we couldn't afford the pony."

I think if JMS had had total freedom to write 50 hour-long eps, the show would have been too overgrown, too shaggy, and downright stale. The Robert Jordan of science fiction television.

Keep it focused. Show what has to be there. And always leave the audience wanting more.
I respectfully disagree. I completely understand your point and I know that in some regards having that much latitude might lead to some issues, but one thing I think certain B5 episodes suffer from is big ideas that had to be scaled down for time. An example I often like to use is Infection, 1.4. I feel like more people would love this episode as much as I do if there had been more time to flesh the story out a little more. Start with the discovery of the artifact, a bit more time dealing with Drake being on the loose, and maybe a little more emphasis placed on what the weapon actually did to an entire race. We're talking about the elimination of an entire species. At the current length somethings seem rushed.
Looney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st 18, 22:04   #30
KoshFan
Soul Hunter
 
KoshFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The upper left-hand corner of the US
Posts: 10,633
Re: Biggest unanswered questions...

Fair enough. I'll grant you that five minutes here or there would have made things a lot better. I remember how the endings of both two-parter eps got mangled because they had to move stuff around to meet the time limits, and if they'd been able to just do one 40-minute ep and one 48-minute ep instead of trying to balance, it would have improved the show.

But that's fairly minor. If we'd had fifty eps a season, I guarantee you there would have been more clunkers like "Gray 17 is Missing". We would have no doubt seen the saga of getting the methane-breathers' toilets up and running. Another 839 things would have come straight from hell, and 1,201 more things would be going straight there.

JMS understood this, after all: he said "Five seasons, no more," and he basically stuck to that!
__________________
Know what you do.

The Generous Grasp
KoshFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2018 B5TV.COM