Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

I thought I would also return to what the hybrid was saying in past episodes:

"Mists of dreams drip along the nascent echo and love no more end of line. Those mists, the vapor of disparate memories and experiences, black-haired lives, won't ever coalesce back into their reborn rivers, now: Six, Three, Simon, Eight, Leoben, Doral, Cavil. All losing memories and shapes forever, shedding drops of memory and
self, becoming less, to love no more. End of line."

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Just a few observations: All the women are referred to by numbers, the males by name. Losing memories, not being allowed into their “reborn rivers” could mean the prediction of the resurrection ship being blasted to oblivion.

Baseship Hybrid 1.0: "At last they've come for me. I feel their lives, their destinies spilling out before me. The denial of the one true path, played out on a world not their own, will end soon enough.

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I assume it’s the cylons that the hybrid is talking about here. The denial of the one true path = the denial of the one true God perhaps.

Played out on a world not their own could mean Earth. Hard to say.

Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening. Struggling with the knowledge of their true selves. The pain of revelation bringing new clarity. And in the midst of confusion, he will find her, enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one.

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“he will find her” could mean Tigh finding Ellen, or Adama finding Roslyn.
Enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies joined as one are the humans and cylons working together.

The way forward, at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.

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Obviously this is Ellen. She needs redemption (through suffering.) I don’t think she’s experienced this redemption yet, or the suffering. So, bad things ahead for her if we are to believe the hybrid.

I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin.

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The “seven” meaning 7 models. They were down to six when D’Anna was boxed.

Or, it could mean “seven” the model who is now “six” which would be a clue about seven’s identity. (Baltar/Six would fit)

But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many. And then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning."

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They split already. That has happened. They are suffering. They joined the humans to find Earth. “On the wings of an angel” is uncertain. They do see Earth’s “end” but according to this, there is hope.

She (Kara Thrace) is the herald of the Apocalypse, the harbinger of death. They must not follow her.

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They shouldn’t have gone to Earth, according to this.

The children of the one reborn shall find their own country. Intruders swarm like flame, like the whirlwind. Hopes soaring to slaughter all their best against our house.

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Hmm, who is the one reborn? Starbuck? Ellen? Number 7?

Centrifical force reacts to the rotating frame of reference. The obstinate toy soldier becomes pliant. The city devours the land...the people devour the city.

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Obstinate toy soldier is ______? Whoever he/she is, they become pliant. City devouring the land? Who knows.

Intruders swarm like flame, like the whirlwind. Hopes soaring to slaughter all their best against our house.

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The “House” meaning the cylon race? Hopes = a downfall?

Ask will it come to pass? The dying leader will know the truth of the opera house. The missing three will give you the five, who have come from the home of the thirteenth. You are the harbinger of death Kara Thrace. You will lead them all to their end.

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The dying leader will learn the truth of the opera house. We’re still waiting for that.
D’Anna gave us the final five (or four, in a sense.) They came from the home of the 13th (they came from Earth)

Alluveal said:

First 5 skinjobs were created on Kobol. They took the centurions and left for Earth.

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Where was it said that those five were created on Kobol? And that they left with centurions? Sounded like a large group of skinjobs left for Earth....those 5 may or may not have been among them (they might have been "born" on Earth for all we know). Then on Earth they created Centurions and things went from there. The Final Five were the only ones to escape Earth.

From what I have read on other boards and from how I interpreted the dialogue so far, I think that all cylons went to Earth from Kobol. And I'm led to believe that centurions and skinjobs went because after the big war on Kobol, they "left to find a homeworld of their own" much as the cylons of the 12 colonies did after the first cylon war.

Hell, for all I know, the cylon "homeworld" that we have yet to see could be the "real" Earth.

The skinjobs could have been created on Earth by the centurions, I guess? I do know they found centurion remains on Earth and that there were the 5 on Earth, the "first five." I'm led to believe there were a lot more than five, though, after all was said and done (and procreation became possible.) If they populated Earth, there have to have been a whole metric assload of skinjobs (be them procreated or whatnot.)

I'll see what I can dig up about whether or not the First Five were created on Kobol. I could be wrong.

All these details. I could just kick the writers in the junk.

One thing is for damn sure:

JMS > RDM

Ok, I found some answers. First off, there is this:

Anders: "Organic memory transfer came from Kobol along with the thirteenth tribe. It fell out of use after our people started to procreate. We worked night and day to rebuild it."

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Second, centurions did not go to Earth. This was taken from an interview with one of the writers. The link is found HERE:

The skinjob-style Cylons on Earth built their own metal battlebots who turned on them.

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So, the skinjobs came from Kobol. They settled Earth and built their own cylons.

The Centurions didn’t create Cavil. The Final Five did. We saw the Centurions experimenting with Hybrids during ‘Razor’ and we also saw the Final Five as ‘skin jobs’ on Kobol thousands of years ago, so I don’t think the idea of aspiring to human form is all that surprising.

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Also, someone asked about Saul Tigh and Adama, that is also answered:

They didn't meet until after the war. Saul was given false memories and introduced into life among humans at that point.

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Updated the timeline as well. (weee!)


Yes, JMS > all imho.

Are we totally convinced that "Earth" is our Earth or is it just a forerunner/homage to the Earth we know and love?

The constellations of the twelve colonies match the configuration given by the thirteenth but it's certainly possible that the same constellations could be visible in different configurations from multiple locations.

And the big clincher for me is the early season comment by Starbuck about Earth's moon being yellow. Last time I checked, our moon was not yellow.

Galahad said:

And the big clincher for me is the early season comment by Starbuck about Earth's moon being yellow. Last time I checked, our moon was not yellow.

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Well it did used to be made of cheese :guffaw:

crazyhorse said:

Well it did used to be made of cheese :guffaw:

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Yes, but Wallace & Gromit strip mined it in search of Wensleydale.

I'm not convinced that is Earth. No way we're all cylons! =D

I think some faction will settle a planet and name that "Earth" and that will be the Earth we know and love.

They will settle Earth and begin civilization a'new. The "old gods" (Hera, Zeus, etc) will be introduced as the gods of Earth and they will eventually go the way of the dodo. The hint here IS that some people are still worshipping the old gods. Why would this occur at all if real Earth had already been destroyed. The cylons didn't switch over to the "one True God" while they were anywhere near Earth. It happened on/in context to the 12 colonies.

Galahad said:

Are we totally convinced that "Earth" is our Earth or is it just a forerunner/homage to the Earth we know and love?

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Does it really matter? Where is it said that this is happening in our universe, in our reality, and in our time? Its a story, nothing more.

Logically speaking it CAN'T be our Earth because the history of man inhabiting this planet goes back far more than just a couple thousand years.

Well, I would think there are still "rules" in place for using Earth in a story. =)

As for history, we'll just have to see. There could already be humans on whatever planet they find. They mesh with those humans, give them a technological and evolutionary boost and voila! New Earth, the one we are familiar with. Not that other piece of rock in which we saw no maps, continents or bodies of water to distinguish it one way or another.

Alluveal said:

Well, I would think there are still "rules" in place for using Earth in a story. =)

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I agree - while it's all, of course, just a story .. if you're going to use "Earth", it'd be pretty gimmicky to discard everything about Earth that makes it Earth.

I'm also not convinced that the Earth we've seen is our Earth. I'm still suspicious about how they did not show us an orbital shot, showing the continents.

So I'm guessing there's either another colony we know nothing about .. or, more likely, it'll be your theory. They arrive at a planet just when Galactica is falling apart. Crash, lose all their technology. Start from scratch.

Chilli said:

or, more likely, it'll be your theory. They arrive at a planet just when Galactica is falling apart. Crash, lose all their technology. Start from scratch.

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THIS is how I thought the show would always end. The end of a civilization, and the beginning of ours. And the reason this has always been such a strong possibility in my mind is because so much of this show IS (whether people like it or not) based on many of the concepts of the original. And who can for get the first sentence in the opening credits of the original Battlestar Galactica? "There are those who believe that life here began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans."

I think I'm going to call my doctor and schedule that Cylon test I've always been thinking about taking...

Alluveal said:

Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening. Struggling with the knowledge of their true selves. The pain of revelation bringing new clarity. And in the midst of confusion, he will find her, enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one.

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“he will find her” could mean Tigh finding Ellen, or Adama finding Roslyn.
Enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies joined as one are the humans and cylons working together.

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I think the "he will find her" probably refers to Leoben and Starbuck. It was him finding her while she was looking for Earth that caused the humans and cylons to start working together, however bumpy doing so proved to be.

Note: I originally started this post pointing out the discrepancy between Alluveal's and Recoil's understanding of the humanoid Cylon origins, before coming across the later posts about it. So glad to see it's not just me who was lost.

Additional note: I will cease, after this sentence, using the term "skinjob" because it makes me giggle so.

Haven't seen this episode yet, but I think the Chief isn't in one camp or the other...and that's the point. He's swinging like a pendulum every time he's faced with a convincing argument.

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I dunno man, he seemed pretty intent on leaving.

So where do we guys come in? People actually living on planet earth now? Are we all cylons, or simply un-canon? If the latter is the case, it'd make the whole "Earth" thing pretty gimmicky.

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Funny, I was thinking the same thing as I clicked on this thread today.

The most interesting mystery for me when the series started was how they were going to connect "our" Earth to "their" Earth.

“he will find her” could mean Tigh finding Ellen, or Adama finding Roslyn.
Enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies joined as one are the humans and cylons working together.

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Tigh and Caprica 6 seem to fit this description best to me.

The children of the one reborn shall find their own country. Intruders swarm like flame, like the whirlwind. Hopes soaring to slaughter all their best against our house.
Hmm, who is the one reborn? Starbuck? Ellen? Number 7?

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Note that Ellen speaks of the other humanoid models as her children.

Does it really matter? Where is it said that this is happening in our universe, in our reality, and in our time? Its a story, nothing more.

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If that were the case, than using the word "Earth" to describe a planet in this story that has no dramatic connection to our planet would be so incredibly lame that, regardless of whatever other nonsense this show throws at us, would be to cheap and insulting towards its audience.

THIS is how I thought the show would always end. The end of a civilization, and the beginning of ours. And the reason this has always been such a strong possibility in my mind is because so much of this show IS (whether people like it or not) based on many of the concepts of the original. And who can for get the first sentence in the opening credits of the original Battlestar Galactica? "There are those who believe that life here began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans."

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But didn't that series end with Apollo showing up in present-day Earth?

GKarsEye said:

I dunno man, he seemed pretty intent on leaving.

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As aforementioned, I'm not yet up to speed with this episode...so I'm mainly going on what has come before.

GKarsEye said:

The most interesting mystery for me when the series started was how they were going to connect "our" Earth to "their" Earth.

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Same here.

GKarsEye said:

If that were the case, than using the word "Earth" to describe a planet in this story that has no dramatic connection to our planet would be so incredibly lame that, regardless of whatever other nonsense this show throws at us, would be to cheap and insulting towards its audience.

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Exactly

GKarsEye said:

But didn't that series end with Apollo showing up in present-day Earth?

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I don't know if it was the character of Apollo, it certainly was a different actor playing the part and his sidekick I think, was Barry van Dyke.

Recoil's point about the dialogue from the original series misses out the final line which goes onto say "some believe there may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive somewhere among the heavens".

Here's a link to the intro ... blinking heck I used to have a MAJOR crush on Maren Jensen!

So the original series didn't necessarily set out with the notion that the it was going to conclude with the colonies forming our early civilizations. In fact, the whole ship of light thing seemed to indicate that the human race on Earth had evolved to a kind of first one status... and were guiding the colonials back to a future Earth.

GKarsEye said:

But didn't that series end with Apollo showing up in present-day Earth?

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Technically speaking no. That was "Galactica 1980" which was a completely different concept started by the suits at the network who didn't like how Season 1 went. It was horrible in every way possible and people pretty much dismissed it as non-canon.

However, the original series did hint at a modern day Earth, as in the last real episode of BSG Season 1, the Apollo moon landing recording was seen.

To further explain, and justify this from Galahad's post, what needs to be remembered is that the original BSG hinted at things differently. In the original BSG, the humans started off on Kobol also. Most humans went to form the 12 colonies, and a "13th tribe" went off on their own to colonize Earth. So the concept was starting to appear that the 13th tribe that left Kobol were the ones who were the forefathers of the Egyptians, etc, but they advanced, technologically, more slowly than the colonies, and so the Galactica could find modern day Earth, and the whole "left here began out there" was due to the 13th tribe leaving Kobol NOT to the Galactica being the forefathers.

However I still think this new series will follow the same concept, but just get there in a different way, with our fleet and the Galactica settling on Earth with little to no technology left, and being the forefathers of the Egyptians. So same concept, but done with a twist.

That all assumes that the planet they called Earth isn't our planet, which would be so freakin' lame.

The one think that makes me doubt the theory Recoil, Alluveal and myself have subscribed to is "All Along the Watchtower". Where did that come from? At the time, the only logical conclusion for me was that they were picking up a stray transition from Earth.

Of course, this also negates BSG canon as it stands now - the one in which everything on Earth has been dead for millenia.

So I have a hard time imagining how this could end up making sense in the end. Unless the producers are trying to tell us that Bob Dylan is a universal constant or some shit. In which case, they can blow me.

Well I admit that would be a kick for us Dylan fans