Mark Oshiro watches Babylon 5

[Springer]

Originally Posted by Jan

It's been a while since the last but I've seen quite a few people over the years who refused to acknowledge Londo's trying for redemption. And they ended up hating Delenn for her part in the E/M war, too.

Maybe it's just me then! I always see stories like Babylon 5 as tapestries – there are heroes, there are villains, there are people who are morally grey or people who just make bad choices, but they are all essential to the tapestry, and so I couldn't imagine hating a character just for taking that role in the tapestry (though of course, there are characters we 'love to hate', but that's different).

Londo was basically irredeemable from the moment he set the Shadows on Quadrant 14, that's beyond question, and we all knew he was doomed – but that doesn't mean it wasn't dramatic to watch him try and achieve redemption, and to play that role in the tapestry.

[KoshFan]

I don't know, I think Londo redeems himself -- at least partially. His alliance with G'Kar to take out Cartagia (although he misses the chance to save G'Kar's eye), his order to Vir to kill him to spare Centauri Prime...

But I think most of the confusion stems from the ambiguity about when the "surrendering to his worst fear" actually comes in the series, since there are several candidates. As there is no clear moment when he takes that step, it's harder for people to say, "Ah, he did save himself in the end."

[Springer]

Originally Posted by KoshFan

I don't know, I think Londo redeems himself -- at least partially. His alliance with G'Kar to take out Cartagia (although he misses the chance to save G'Kar's eye), his order to Vir to kill him to spare Centauri Prime...

But I think most of the confusion stems from the ambiguity about when the "surrendering to his worst fear" actually comes in the series, since there are several candidates. As there is no clear moment when he takes that step, it's harder for people to say, "Ah, he did save himself in the end."

I wasn't so much referring to Lady Morella's prophecy, more to the fact that I'm not sure there can be true redemption for deliberately instigating a war that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of millions. As G'Kar said to Vir in the elevator, how do you apologise to them? But the drama came from watching Londo try to redeem himself, which in the end resulted in him taking on the burden of the keeper and allowing G'Kar to kill him. It's a fascinating moral question – JMS is daring us to feel sorry for someone who has made appalling choices.

A common theme in B5 is one of forgiveness. G'Kar was able to personally forgive Londo, though was at pains to point out that he could not speak for the other Narn. If I was there, I'm not sure I could forgive Londo. But I certainly appreciated watching him try to redeem himself.

Lady Morella's prophecy was about "avoiding the fire that awaited him" – about avoiding a certain fate – rather than making up for his actions.

[Looney]

Well I wasn't following along, but WOW! did this thread die quickly. I assume Oshiro stopped watching Babylon 5 or reached the end or something.

[Jan]

Originally Posted by Looney

Well I wasn't following along, but WOW! did this thread die quickly. I assume Oshiro stopped watching Babylon 5 or reached the end or something.

Nope, not at all. I'm reading pretty much every time he posts (Mon/Wed/Fri now) and enjoying it immensely.

[Karajorma]

Yep. It's just that I tend to post over on that board rather than on here.



And yes, watching Mark watch the first 6 episodes of season 4 was as amazing as you'd expect. Especially the confused WTFs when the war was suddenly over.

[KoshFan]

I very much enjoyed his insights (although it still bugs me that he apparently missed a few crucial lines in "War Without End" and so has a very inaccurate idea of the future... which is a line that only makes sense in the context of B5, come to think of it...). I also liked what other people have been posting; I've even learned a few things, which is amazing considering how closely I've followed this show for 20+ years.

However, I've had to pause in my re-watch, and so I've paused in following Mark's reviews too.

[vacantlook]

I just finished watching Oshiro's video for "Intersections in Real Time."

I love his comment: "What if my review of this episode is just, 'Fuck all of you'?"

[Karajorma]

Yeah, that episode is pretty uncomfortable viewing at the best of times. But watching someone see it for the first time is even more so.