Ranger Loyalty

I expect we are going to see much more ground covered over the Rangers loyalties to Alliance and homeworld. The Ranger motto We live for the One we die for the One, echoes the sentiments they are supposed to hold. The lead character in particular is going to have to face up to the fact that he looked after the interests of number one not The One, not that I condemn him, it was a human decision and anyone could have done the same. However, I was thinking about how a Drazi would have reacted if he were a ranger aboard a White Star orbitting the Enphili homeworld, waiting to engage the Drazi war fleet. That ranger would be called on to fire on his own people, possibly own family. Or again, a Narn/Drazi during the bombardment of Centauri Prime. I think JMS could have lots of fun exploring the characters individual loyalties backgrounds and agendas, and playing them off against the Ranger credo and the Homeworld position on things.

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"We Live for the One. We die for the One!"

"We live for the one we die for the one"
Is quite a contradiction to the motto "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" no?

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"Faith Manages"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The One Who Was:
"We live for the one we die for the one"
Is quite a contradiction to the motto "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" no?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The whole "We live for The One...." concept has always given me problems.

The first is a very practical question. Who exactly is The One? Is it Ranger One, or the Entil'zha? We're told somewhere -- I think it was To Dream In The City of Sorrows -- that the leadership of the Rangers passes down, but that not every Ranger One is Entil'zha. Valen was Entil'zha. Sinclair was Entil'zha. If Zathrus is to be believed, Delenn and Sheridan are. But what about Ivanova? Is she Entil'zha or simply Ranger One? Is she The One?

Then the questions get more confusing. How can so many people be The One? I grew up Roman Catholic and I know more about the idea of the Trinity than is probably healthy, but I still have a problem with the Zathrus speech about The One who was, the one who is and the one who will be.

And then, more philosophical questions. It's understandable that Valen's Rangers would have had a deep personal loyalty to him. And in the course of this wonderful story, we accept Sheridan and Delenn as heroes, so it's easy to accept that the Rangers would have a personal loyalty to them. But it would be dangerous if the Rangers weren't about something greater than a single person. I have to think that "The One" is a symbol of something greater. (I spent a lot of time in a fic -- or more accurately, had a character spend a long time in a fic -- struggling with that question.

And if a point sneaks up on me anytime soon, I'll make it. Sorry for rambling. It's past my bedtime.



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Carly
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Anatomically impossible, Mr. Garibaldi, but you're welcome to try.
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http://members.aol.com/sullivanc2

I think being Ranger One is enough to qualify as "The One" as far as the Rangers are concerned. I don't think the rank of Entil'zha (sp?) was ever conferred on Delenn, but Marcus considered her The One.

Which presents a problem. What if The One is corrupt? What if someone less than deserving manages to become Ranger One? If so, what's to stop that individual from using the Rangers to take over the Interstellar Alliance?

Another possibility. Ranger One is given his job by the ISA President, right? Well, what if, like Clark, someone corrupt makes it to the post of President. Then goes on to install someone likeminded as Ranger One? (Example: Clark, through whatever means, becomes President of the Interstellar Alliance. He then installs Bester as Ranger One.) Wouldn't that be disastrous?

There are problems all around with the ISA. It seems as if the only way it can work is if the people running it are beyond reproach. But the moment someone self-serving gets in it all goes to hell.

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Lochley: You know what you are?

Gideon: Ruggedly handsome?

Lochley: A control freak!

Gideon: Can't I be both?

I think that "The One" is the Entil'Zha, of which there have only been four (or three depending on how you count Sinclair/Valen. )

Valen was Entil'Zha. Upon his passing the head of the Rangers was titled Ranger One. "The One" whom the Rangers swore to live and die for over the next 1,000 years remained Valen - their founder, the one who had given them their mission, their rules and their customs. When Sinclair took over the Rangers, recruiting mostly Humans because many Minbari were both contemptuous of the organization and unwilling to serve side-by-side with other races, he was made Entil'Zha because of prophecy. ("Entil'Zha" itself means something like, "The One who Brings (or Creates) the Future.")

After Sinclair departs aboard B4, Delenn is named Entil'Zha. (Marcus is fighting Neroon during her inauguration ceremony, so it is splitting hairs to say that he calls her "The One" when she is not Entil'Zha. He wasn't exactly in a position to check ISN to see if she had taken the oath, or whatever. )

When Delenn becomes President of the IA, she relinquishes the title to Sheridan.

I do not believe that it passes to Ivanova. I think it is only borne by the three Zathras calls, "The One", and after that is retired, awaiting the predicted return of Valen. This would seem to track with the way the title is used in To Dream in the City of Sorrows.

So for most of their history the Rangers pledge allegiance to "The One" as a symbol, to the memory of the departed "Ones" who held that title, much as a modern soldier pledges allegiance to a nation or a flag, not to an individual. As it happens, for the brief time they are pledging themselves to particular individuals, they are eminently worthy ones - the right people, in the right place, at the right time. (Or "times", in Sinclair's case. )

That, in any case, is how I see it.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

"After Sinclair departs aboard B4, Delenn is named Entil'Zha. (Marcus is fighting Neroon during her inauguration ceremony, so it is splitting hairs to say that he calls her "The One" when she is not Entil'Zha. He wasn't exactly in a position to check ISN to see if she had taken the oath, or whatever."

Heh, have to admit, when Neroon walked into the ceremony looking the way he did and calling her Entil'Zha, I wouldn't have argued! I am the type who likes to see the sun rise the next day with facial features intact!

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"So where does the power come from to see the race to its end? It comes from within."

I was under the impression that Entil'Zha was used for the Ranger Ones that were leaders of the Rangers during a war.

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Have you been taking a philosophy course for the martial-artistically challenged?

"Another possibility. Ranger One is given his job by the ISA President, right? Well, what if, like Clark, someone corrupt makes it to the post of President. Then goes on to install someone likeminded as Ranger One? (Example: Clark, through whatever means, becomes President of the Interstellar Alliance. He then installs Bester as Ranger One.) Wouldn't that be disastrous?"
(don't know how to do that quote thingie..so this is the next best thing)
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Someone has not been paying attention!
As the rest of the posts have shown...it's impossible to get someone like Bester as Ranger One.
In order to fully understand the process you have to read 'To Dream In the City of Sorrows'
The Gray Council helps decide who is to be Entil'zha and Ranger One. They are separate but one leads to the other. (Joe D...you are as much up on this as I am)
Ranger One is the position of leader of the Rangers. The title of Entil'zha is essentially a replacement for Valen. Because Sinclair was beleived (and we know) to have a part of Valen's soul, he was fulfilling prophecy for the Rangers and Minbari and, after a lot of debate and going head to head verbally with Neroon, he was conferred the title of Entil'zha.
Remember the drink that Delenn had during her ceremony? That stuff is deadly poison to humans and is part of the ritual of becoming Entil'zha. After reading what happened to Sinclair, being human, I only wondered if it made Delenn sick at all?
Okay...part two.
Sinclair, Delenn and Sheridan were all part of fulfilling the prophecy and continuing the legacy of the Rangers. Sheridan and Ivanova are the only two that most likely didn't complete the ceremony to become Entil'zha. Although I wouldn't have put it past Sheridan, I can just see that argument! Ivanova on the other hand, was not in the plans and therefore would have settled as Ranger One.
So...anything else?
The Rangers are sworn to The One as the spirit of Valen embodied in whoever is leading the rangers at the time.
As far as the philosophy goes, there's a trinity in the Catholic church..hello?
The Rangers are not a religion..it is an organization. They swear to the One as American soldiers swear to protect the President and uphold the constitution.
Okay....nuf said...sorry...this is something I can go all day on.

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PM
--The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that vast terrible inbetween.
---Centauri Emperor

It makes since that after all the bloodshed of the Earth Civil war, Sheridan and others would have put a system of checks and balances on the power of the ISA president.

The same goes for the Earth Alliance. I'm sure they learned harsh lessons after President Clark's coup.

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Now this is the Law of the Jungle -- as old and as true as the sky;
And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the Wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk the Law runneth forward and back --
For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
-The Law of the Jungle by Rudyard Kipling

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Someone has not been paying attention!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guess I should pay more attention, next time. :b

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>As the rest of the posts have shown...it's impossible to get someone like Bester as Ranger One.

In order to fully understand the process you have to read 'To Dream In the City of Sorrows'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never actually read the book. Had I read the book then I'd know. So in actuality I'm ignorant, not attention-deficit.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>The Gray Council helps decide who is to be Entil'zha and Ranger One.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, now this I have a problem with. The Rangers are now the military arm of the Interstellar Alliance. They're no longer answerable to the Grey Council. So how is the Ranger One selected, now? From "Sleeping In Light", it seemed evident that the Ranger One was given his (or hers in that instance) job by the ISA President. (Delenn in that case)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>They are separate but one leads to the other. (Joe D...you are as much up on this as I am)

Ranger One is the position of leader of the Rangers. The title of Entil'zha is essentially a replacement for Valen. Because Sinclair was beleived (and we know) to have a part of Valen's soul, he was fulfilling prophecy for the Rangers and Minbari and, after a lot of debate and going head to head verbally with Neroon, he was conferred the title of Entil'zha.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, I get it. If you're Entil'Zha then you're also Ranger One, but being Ranger One doesn't necessarily make you Entil'Zha.

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Lochley: You know what you are?

Gideon: Ruggedly handsome?

Lochley: A control freak!

Gideon: Can't I be both?

The One in some senses can be ambiguous. Sinclair didn't necessarily feel comfortable with all Minbari customs, he certainly said while serving as Anla'Shok Na, that you didn't necessarily have to believe what the Minbari believed, just respect it. For me, and perhaps for many of the Rangers the One can be who or what you want it to be. My personal belief, is Christian, so for me the one would be Jesus Christ. Not trying to get heavy here, just making a point. So a Narn might see G'Lan or G'Quan as the one or even G'Kar (much to his annoyance). Minbari adhere to Valen, Drazi to Droshalla, the Centauri would probably have a headache!

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"We Live for the One. We die for the One!"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>OK, I get it. If you're Entil'Zha then you're also Ranger One, but being Ranger One doesn't necessarily make you Entil'Zha.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No more calls please ... we have a winner!



Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

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"We Live for the One. We die for the One!"

One more point on "The One".

In order to become Ranger One, the person would also have to be accepted by the Rangers. In Ivanova's case, she is both Known to them (By reputation, at least) and recommended by Delenn. They'd accept her even though she's an outsider. I suspect that, in most cases, it is the job of Ranger One to select and groom his/her replacement. Usually this would be from the ranks of the Rangers themselves. This method of selection would make it much more difficult for a corrupt politician to gain control, so long as the Rangers continue to select recruits for Integrity and willingness to Sacrifice themselves for others. The selfish would never make it through training, much less up to the top.

That is certaily what Dukhat _Intended_ when he chose Delenn for his replacement as leader of all the Minbari. So, things didn't work out Quite the way he planned. It's still a good plan.

In Delenn's case as Ranger One, circumstances denied her the time to train a replacement, so she solved the problem by picking the best person she knew and who, incidentally, was already a trained leader.



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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>One more point on "The One". In order to become Ranger One, the person would also have to be accepted by the Rangers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again, I think it is important to understand the distinction between Entil'Zha (The One who Creates the Future) and Anlashok'na (Ranger One), the operational commander of the Rangers. The Entil'Zha is "The One" in the sense Zathras uses it and for whom the Rangers will live and die. It is not whoever happens to be the leader of the Rangers at the time. The Entil'Zha is always Ranger One. Ranger One is only also Entil'Zha four times that we know of. "The One" is the combined entity represented a different times by Sinclair/Valen, Delenn, and Sherian (all of whom combine aspects of the three Minbari castes in different proportions: Worker, Religious and Warrior.)

Also, we never see (or even hear abuot) any Ranger One (much less Entil'Zha) training his or her replacement.

Sinclair is not trained by his predecessor on Minbar. His predecessor, if memory serves, is already dead before he is invested. Sinclair, in turn, does not train Delenn (although it is probable that he named her as his successor.)

And Ivanova doesn't replace Delenn as head of the Rangers. She replaces Sheridan who retires from politics and assumes the title of Entil'Zha around 2279. (Delenn, at the same time, is elected President of the IA and steps down from her position with the Rangers. When she and Ivanova speak in "Sleeping in Light" it is mentioned that Delenn has been President for two years.)

Arguably living for nearly 20 years on Minbar constitutes training for Sheridan.

Sheridan selects Ivanova as his replacement, and Delenn agrees, but there is no question of training her. She isn't even asked until Sheridan knows he is dying, and she can certainly refuse.

Still, Capt. and later General Ivanova has doubtless been a guest in the Sheridan home many times over the years, and learned a great deal about both the Minbari and the Rangers. They, in turn, would have come to know her, and as one of the almost legendary leaders of the Army of Light, and the chosen of the semi-divine Sheridan, she would have been readily accepted.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

I'll try to answer all of this in one post.
Ivanova wasn't chosen by Delenn the ISA president. She was chosen by Sheridan (the Entil'Za) and perhaps Delenn. Sheridan wouldn't have wanted to ask her himself because then it wouldn't have been her choice, she would have done it as a 'last wish' thing and that wouldn't have been right (i just watched the ep yesterday. Sheridan is in the hallway and asks if Ivanova said yes, indicating that he knew of the offer).

as for the ethics of "live for the one, die for the one": try telling a secret service agent that the president isn't worth taking a bullet for. or that the president isn't worth 100 agents taking a bullet for.
sometimes, the right person in the right place with the will to do good can change the world. and the Rangers understand that sometimes they will be asked to lay down their lives for something they will never understand.
to understand the rangers, the best source is not anything Marcus ever did (because Delenn herself said he joined for the wrong reasons) but the 5th season ep "Learning Curve" w/ the Ranger trainees visiting B5. The story of the flower sums up what it means to be a Ranger.
And as for the many and the few - only 4 people could have won the shadow war (according to the Shadows themselves). Do you think the life of a Ranger wouldn't be worth giving up for one of them?


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"I bring the Hand of God and that is all I bring. I speak for the Hand of God. I am the Preacher"
The Preacher - "Children of Dune"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Also, we never see (or even hear about) any Ranger One (much less Entil'Zha) training his or her replacement.

Sinclair is not trained by his predecessor on Minbar. His predecessor, if memory serves, is already dead before he is invested. Sinclair, in turn, does not train Delenn (although it is probable that he named her as his successor.) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

These are, as noted, unusual circumstances. Sinclair takes over at a time when the Rangers are at their lowest manning level ever. The Warrior Caste has been deliberately working to eliminate the entire organization. So, they don't Have a suitable candidate to be trained. Plus, I believe the reason for Sinclair's induction as Ranger One is because of the Prophesy.

Delenn & Sheridan are also part of the prophesy. Their reasons for choosing Ivanova are their own.

But, in normal times, any smart leader chooses and grooms his/her successor when possible. Even some supposedly "elected" leaders are chosen in this manner.

Since we have evidence (Dukhat/Delenn) that the Minbari _Do_ mentor their replacements, I'd say the chances of that being the Normal course of events is pretty good.

The one method for choosing Ranger One that I'd rule out is any sort of "popular vote", even if it were limited to just Rangers voting. The organization needs to be at least quasi military and elections are just not a good idea for that sort of organization. Merit promotions are the most likely method for advancement as a Ranger.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that, aside from Ranger One and Teachers, there is almost no rank structure among the Rangers? True, there are ship's Captains, but that seemed to be more a JOB than a rank.

An organization of Equals (for the most part) each person doing the job he/she is best at.



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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>BTW, has anyone else noticed that, aside from Ranger One and Teachers, there is almost no rank structure among the Rangers? True, there are ship's Captains, but that seemed to be more a JOB than a rank.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, this might change post Shadow War. For most of of their history, and most of the time we see them on the show, the Rangers are covert intelligence gatherers and behind-the-lines covert ops types - a cross between CIA field operatives and Navy SEALs/Army Rangers or Marine Force Recon. This role puts a premium on personal combat skills, small unit cohesion and tactics, and everyone knowing and doing his job. The rank structure is still there, but the units are more egalitarian in practice than many military units, at least below the level of the commander.

Now the Rangers are the primary military force of the Interstellar Alliance. That's a new and very different mission, and will require a new structure. SEAL Teams do not ordinarily serve as the command staff of ships - and for good reason. Both the training and the function of the Rangers is going to have to change in order for them to fulfill their new, more open role.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

Point of information: In the JMS story "Time, Space, and the Incurable Romantic," published some months ago in "Amazing Stories" magazine (now defunct?), JMS quite clearly designates Ivanova's title as Anlashok na, Ranger One. JMS says that Ivanova served as Anlashok na from the day that she accepted the job until the end of her life, and did such a great job as Anlashok na that she's still revered by the Minbari over 200 years after her death, despite the apparent fact that she never received the title Entil'zha.

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When you see what you want, don ' t be afraid -- all love is not unrequited.

Marcus lives!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Now the Rangers are the primary military force of the Interstellar Alliance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well, not quite. Sheridan spent a bit of effort telling people that the Rangers would NOT function as a "police force" but as an information gathering and "Peace Force". It is the job of the Rangers to "Create the Peace", not enforce it. If the Alliance needs a Military force, it would be the same sort of coalition that fought the Shadows: All members working together.

Simple logic: The only Military force the Alliance would need would be for meeting attacks from Outside, such as the Drakh.

Internal disputes between members would be the problem of the member govts and the Alliance would not become involved except as a Peace negotiator. Any other role would inevitably lead to a civil war among the members of the alliance. Keeping this bunch together is already too much like herding cats. The last thing Sheridan & Delenn need is anyone pointing fingers and going "Mommy always liked You Better."

All of which contradicts any idea of the Rangers functioning as a Military force, much less the Primary one.



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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?