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Crusade Vs. Star Blazers

BTW...when somebody ways things like '...was poorly written..." could I suggest an example? Because chances are, without the kind of credentials to match the one who actually did write what you're complaining about, what you're actually saying is a grandiose "I just didn't like it".

Sure! That's a good question!

Ok, I already mentioned the scene from "A view from the gallery" where random guest stars inform us that we HAVE to like Lochley, and that she's a total badass. That's an example of bad writing because she hasn't earned that kind of regard from us yet.

Okay, that makes sense. Except that you're overlooking the next part, where JMS practically breaks the fourth wall and addresses the rumors going around the station about why Ivanova left. We were just shown Lochley in action and a character voiced an opinion vs rumors floating around about her and about Ivanova. The two together pretty much equal 'wait and see' to me.

If you like. The question was "when somebody ways things like '...was poorly written..." could I suggest an example? Because chances are, without the kind of credentials to match the one who actually did write what you're complaining about, what you're actually saying is a grandiose "I just didn't like it"."

I gave an example. And, yeah, it's a 4th-wall breaker, and I get the point, but I feel the scene is poorly written (The gag is way too pointed, way too obvious), poorly acted, and on the whole I think the episode is sub-par. This is opinion, of course, but you wanted an example so I gave you an example of what constitutes 'poorly written' to me.

In fact, I consider that entire episode to be an example of a good idea that was very poorly written/executed. I didn't like either Mac or Bo, and it felt very stagey, even though some of their lines were pretty good. The discussion of the floor-cleaners was clever, but the delivery killed it. The discussion of 'tastes like chicken' was not clever, and the delivery was bad. And the whole episode felt forced. An enemy we've never heard of before or since does more damage to B5 than the entire Shadow War and the Civil War managed - combined - and yet there's no repercussions. The point was just a forced plot to give our two goofuses a reason to fall through random encounters with people we already know, and show us how they look to "The little people." The episode just didn't work.

For you. I on the other hand loved it, especially the chemistry between Mac and Bo. Much the way I loved the first season episodes which expanded the universe and station to more than the command staff. You have a point about the 'raiders' except that nameless raiders have always been the threat of the day on B5, hardly ever being caught or pursued. And there really wasn't that much damage, as I recall.

THEY BLEW OUT A HUGE SECTION OF THE HULL! The only time we've seen more damage to the station was when the Centauri blew off the cargo stabilizer. And THIS attack was on the rotating section, which, by its nature, would be far more devestating then attacking an industrial or storage area. Also: they weren't raiders, they were aliens. Remember the whole "Methane colors the explosions" thing? And their space suits? Not raiders. They're an alien species. Delenn mentions their name at one point, but I can't recalll it.

Generally speaking, I like format-breaking episodes of TV shows. "Lower Decks" from TNG is a great format-breaker that does the same thing as this better (Probably the only time you'll ever hear me say that about anything in TNG, a show I really didn't like). Most of the episodes from the final season of M*A*S*H are great for just that reason. Episodes like "Point of No Return" and "Cloverdale" from the Stargate shows are awesome format-breakers. Anything that expands a fictional universe is good in my book, assuming it's well told.

This just wasn't. But we're not english majors having an argument, so there's not really a reason to take it further than 'here's the reasons I didn't like it, and here's the reasons you did.'

I have a lot of the same problems with "The Illusion of Truth." It's a really clever idea, but it's poorly executed. In order to get the soundbites the reporter needs for his propagandistic view of B5, JMS has to make all his characters act in very self-conscious ways, saying things they wouldn't normally say or reacting in ways they wouldn't normally, so the whole episode feels false and contrived.

Need another real example here. Because what made that episode effective was the re-editing of the questions. You may actually be right to an extent but for a one-episode message, TV generally needs to be a bit on the obvious side. It also was done in the mid-90s when most of us were still thinking that news held an amount of responsibility. Silly us.

Jan

Nahhhhhhhhhh, everyone was already cynical as hell in the '90s. When you say you need another example, do you mean you need a 3rd episode I feel is poorly written, or that you need me to be more specific about "The Illusion of Truth?" (Conversely, I felt "And now for a word" made use of the same basic idea, but did it much better)
 
Elizabeth Lochley never struck me a military officer. Tracy Scoggins was good when she played the girlfriend but not as the boss-man in drag.
 
Elizabeth Lochley never struck me a military officer. Tracy Scoggins was good when she played the girlfriend but not as the boss-man in drag.

I liked her MUCH better on Crusade than on B5. I also liked her in "Lost Tales."

"Boss man in drag" is a serious problem with SF, I agree. Or as I call it, "Captain Kirk in a Dress."
 
"Boss man in drag" is a serious problem with SF, I agree. Or as I call it, "Captain Kirk in a Dress."

Perhaps, but not with Babylon 5. Andrew has a rather backward view of what parts women should play in drama and it usually boils down to him describing them as 'girlfriend' or 'secretary'. It's a perception problem on his part, not of Tracy's portrayal of a female Captain.

Jan
 
"Boss man in drag" is a serious problem with SF, I agree. Or as I call it, "Captain Kirk in a Dress."

Perhaps, but not with Babylon 5. Andrew has a rather backward view of what parts women should play in drama and it usually boils down to him describing them as 'girlfriend' or 'secretary'. It's a perception problem on his part, not of Tracy's portrayal of a female Captain.

Jan

It is more complex than that Jan. I have no problems seeing Ivanova as a military officer - she has the needed aggression and is not trying to get people to love her. She did not flirt with people in meetings the way Lochley did.
 
It is more complex than that Jan. I have no problems seeing Ivanova as a military officer - she has the needed aggression and is not trying to get people to love her. She did not flirt with people in meetings the way Lochley did.

For example (this I've got to see)?

Jan
 
"Boss man in drag" is a serious problem with SF, I agree. Or as I call it, "Captain Kirk in a Dress."

Perhaps, but not with Babylon 5. Andrew has a rather backward view of what parts women should play in drama and it usually boils down to him describing them as 'girlfriend' or 'secretary'. It's a perception problem on his part, not of Tracy's portrayal of a female Captain.

Jan

No, B5 has a good track record with chicks in charge. Ivonova was wonderful. Lochley had a few good moments (Such as her speech about not getting to choose which orders you follow), but the character suffered from not a lot of development time, being born in a rush, and then being uncomfortably grafted on to a cast we already liked. On the whole, she didn't work. In her post B5 appearances I find her believable, though.
 
On the whole, she didn't work.

There, we'll have to differ. With the exception of the "Then the report's inclompete." bit when she first arrived and was talking to Corwin, I found her much more believable and relatable than Ivanova.

Jan
 
It is more complex than that Jan. I have no problems seeing Ivanova as a military officer - she has the needed aggression and is not trying to get people to love her. She did not flirt with people in meetings the way Lochley did.

Being in a leadership position isn't about being aggressive though, whether you are a man or a woman. Being a successful leader is more about discipline, setting standards and showing authority and intelligence in decision making. Something that Ivanova was learning from Sinclair and Sheridan. I felt Ivanova, at least in the beginning, was always conscious of what Sinclair and Sheridan thought of her abilities as she looked up to them - she wouldn't want to disappoint them. She was still a young officer, remember. Lochley, I think, didn't care if Sheridan or anyone else disapproved of anything she did. She had already been a starship captain, she already had that command presence and confidence in decision making.

I don't recall Lochley ever flirting with anyone and if she was so bothered about people liking her she wouldn't have come down on Garibaldi like a ton of bricks from the beginning.
 
Going back to the original topic of the thread, it took me a quick google search to realise that ‘Star Blazers’ and ‘Space Battleship Yamato’ are essentially the same show, just re-dubbed and slightly re-cut for an American audience.

Always been curious to see Space Battleship Yamato as it seemed like an interesting reflection of Japanese sentiment and society post WWII. I think the closest I got to a cartoon like that in my youth was ExoSquad, which had similarly adult themes and an epic space war that saw main characteres die along the way. Still have to rewatch that as it’s all on Youtube.

As for the similarities to Crusade, it’s hard to say. I expect it’s just one of those cases where thing coincidentally line up. It’s like the first time I saw Cowboy Bebop, I couldn’t believe how similar it was to Firefly. An SF ship show with a massive Western influence. However, Joss claims he’d never seen Cowboy Bebop prior to making Firefly, so fair play. I believe they were just mining the same influences, but the resemlance is definitely there.

If there are any SF fans here who haven’t seen Bebop, I’d recommend it. Great characters, and it’s easily on a par with Firefly.
 
Always been curious to see Space Battleship Yamato as it seemed like an interesting reflection of Japanese sentiment and society post WWII. I think the closest I got to a cartoon like that in my youth was ExoSquad, which had similarly adult themes and an epic space war that saw main characteres die along the way. Still have to rewatch that as it’s all on Youtube.

Animation: Headache-inducing
Dubbing: Cringingly bad.
American Script/Censoring: I suppose it COULD have been worse...
Overall Japanese Original: Kinda' silly-but-cool

Thing is, with all that going against it, I will always love SB/SBY. It was the first arc-driven cartoon, nay, the first arc-driven SF show *PERIOD* that I ever saw. And oh my gosh is that theme music awesome! I got a copy of both the TV show soundtrack AND the Live-Action Movie soundtrack. Wonderful!
 
Is the live action film worth my time?

Well, if you're not that interested and it's a choice between a 2-hour movie and a 13 hour TV series, go for the movie. The FX are nice, the soundtrack is great, and the acting is pretty good. Much of it is on youtube if you want to try to check it out.

On the other hand, if you're a purist, you'll probably hate it as it takes massive liberties with the story. Thing is: I think they worked. There's no point in doing a straight remake of the show on screen, so I feel that while it diverged a LOT in details, I think it was entirely true in spirit, where it counted. This freed them up to do a lot of stuff I didn't see coming, which is awesomei in a movie like this.

My only beef is it's maybe 5 minutes longer than it needs to be, and drags a bit in the middle.
 

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