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Old April 1st 21, 21:58   #51
Axionz
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Re: New To Babylon 5

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I have actually been putting off finishing Season 5 the last couple of weeks because I really don't want it to end lol!

I'm on episode 11 - Phoenix Rising and to be honest I'm really missing Sheridan as the Commander, being in that main role of running the station and of course ivanova which I have mentioned previously as well. It just seems so strange with Sheridan not being the main lead Commander now, he also starts to look so different growing his mustache and the clothes he wears to really show off the image of a politician type instead of military.

So yeh, definately prefer him as the military type/Commander and with Ivanova just sort of dropping off the show completely after Season 4 and garibaldi not in his chief security position it just seems sooo different, like a completely different vibe to it all now, does not feel right lol.

Hope you're all doing well!
I REALLY felt like putting off the ending after seeing every episode of Season 5 when it aired. I do this with a lot of shows. I don't want them to end so I slow my viewing pace, but when B5 aired I didn't have that option. I was beholden to the schedule. Every week I started to dread the show coming to a close. My only solace was I knew there was more from the B5 Universe on the horizon at the time.

And if there is one thing you can say about Season 5 it is that change is all around. New network, new cast members, new character roles, and missing cast members. The wheel keeps turning.

Hey all, how you all doing?

Yes I have been putting off watching these last few episodes on Season 5 myself, just don't want Babylon 5 to end really lol, love the universe and the characters. Even though I can start watching it from Season 1 again it would just feel so different, like too much has changed in terms of story and the characters themselves if you know what I mean? For example in the early seasons the main characters are almost completely different, it takes you on a journey throughout and you watch and see how the characters/actors playing them grow along the way as well, so they become quite different and for the better, so it would just be so strange to see them all starting from scratch again I think, and it truly does give you that message/feeling of, "this story has now been told".

What do you guys think on that?

Well I'm finally getting to the end of Babylon 5 now as I'm onto Season 5 Episode 19 - The Wheel of Fire. Sort of a sad feeling when it's been such a great show and the characters have been fantastic. I hate getting to this point when you are 5-6-7 seasons in on something so good, such a shame Babylon 5 didn't go for a few more seasons.

Man it just feels so gutting at this point lol, like so crap that in a few more episodes boom it's done, the main story of Babylon 5 and the characters are complete, and of course with it being from the 90s there's zero chance of there being anything more.

Such an awesome show!
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Old April 2nd 21, 13:15   #52
Jan
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Re: New To Babylon 5

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Yes I have been putting off watching these last few episodes on Season 5 myself, just don't want Babylon 5 to end really lol, love the universe and the characters. Even though I can start watching it from Season 1 again it would just feel so different, like too much has changed in terms of story and the characters themselves if you know what I mean? For example in the early seasons the main characters are almost completely different, it takes you on a journey throughout and you watch and see how the characters/actors playing them grow along the way as well, so they become quite different and for the better, so it would just be so strange to see them all starting from scratch again I think, and it truly does give you that message/feeling of, "this story has now been told".

What do you guys think on that?
I understand how you feel. But here's the good news: Watching it for the second time is a whole different experience and not all that dissimilar from watching the first time when it comes to discovery. Because when you know what ended up happening, you'll be able to see and appreciate more just how things were set up in advance. You'll actually notice how the audience was literally told what would happen - and it did happen - but in such a completely different way than you expected.

That's why I always envy people discovering the show their first *two* viewings.

Looking forward to your reactions to the final few!!
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Old April 3rd 21, 01:53   #53
Karajorma
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Re: New To Babylon 5

Yep. It's astounding how much the second viewing of B5 gives you. Cause now you see all the foreshadowing that was totally subtle for what it really is.

Things like in Infection where they mention a great war a thousand years ago which just seems like a throwaway line until you rewatch and realise that it was due to the Shadow War.
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Old April 3rd 21, 19:34   #54
Looney
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Re: New To Babylon 5

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Yep. It's astounding how much the second viewing of B5 gives you. Cause now you see all the foreshadowing that was totally subtle for what it really is.

Things like in Infection where they mention a great war a thousand years ago which just seems like a throwaway line until you rewatch and realise that it was due to the Shadow War.
Yes the second viewing is always big. I have watched it all the way through many times and I've found something new EVERY time. This is especially true with Season One, which I've watched at least thirty times. I start it. I get to the end. I take too long a break before starting Season Two. I go back and start Season One again. (For reference as to why this happens see User ID).

OBTW, there are plenty of ways to watch the show with different viewing orders that give you new outlooks as well. (Just look in the B5.FAQ section and you'll see three threads about Viewing Orders right off the bat.) I started a new one a little while back and it really changed how the show started out in terms of major plot points that were emphasized early on.
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Old April 4th 21, 20:31   #55
Axionz
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Re: New To Babylon 5

Well it's a wrap folks! I've just watched the final Babylon 5 episode and man the last few episodes are so sad, how all the main actors are sort or given their chance to basically leave the station and move on, always a sad thing to reach the end of a good show like Babylon 5.

I did find it interesting when Lorien said to Sheridan that it's time to start a new journey as if he was sort of entering the realm of the Vorlans/Shadows and Lorien beyond space.

I loved watching Babylon 5 and I was absolutely glued to it late into Season 2 when Sheridan came on board and started to grow into his role as commander, and the Shadow war story was just amazing, LOVED every episode and the whole build up to the Shadows as well, the entire thing was amazing and so well done.

Some short notes below on my thoughts when it came to some of the main character arcs.

Michael Garibaldi - Loved Garibaldi as the main security chief guy and his role overall, I was not a big fan of the part he was captured by Bester and then basically became a different character all together, I felt he was very missed alongside Sheridan etc on an episode to episode basis playing sort of the right hand man alongside Sheridan and ivanova.

Sheridan - I was not so sure with the switch from Sinclair to Sheridan but heading towards the end of Season 2 he done so well to fit in as the new lead and he quickly became a favorite of mine, his ending was quite sad but loved Sheridan all the way through.

Delenn - I really like Delenn from the start, I liked that sort of power dynamic she brought to the show being part of the gray council etc, a very powerful character being at the top of the chain for the minbari. When she went through that process to become a Minbari/Human hybrid I felt like I preferred the original form but as time went on she done great with this character and seeing Delenn grow as the human hybrid was very interesting and fun to watch for sure!

Londo - Loved Londo, he's hands down one of the top and just such a great/funny character throughout the whole series. I thought his ending was a bit of a shame really and I would have preferred something actually happened with what was going down on his home world with the allies of the Shadows being there and basically controlling his race through all the top political figures including Londo himself. What I mean by that would be Sheridan somehow finding out what was happening to Londo and his world, especially with Delenn towards the end you can see she knows something is wrong, she almost see's the Shadow Tech on Londo and she can feel the Shadow presence there for a moment... I think they could have done something here for sure instead of letting Londo sort of fade away like that, but quite a dark sad ending for him really.

One thing I would have liked though was to see Londo at the table with the rest of them on the last episode for Sheridans sort of last meal with the crew, sort of felt like Londo not being there was out the blue but I guess it feeds across the fact the Shadow allies had no more use for him and so killed him?

Ivanova - What can I say here, loved Ivanova and thought she was great all the way through as well, just such a damn shame she left at the end of Season 4 like that and was just gone.

I did read up on this and from what I can see apparently she just didn't sign the contract for season 5 at the last minute? I read that she just wanted to go a different path and lean more towards the movie industry at the time? But regardless she was very missed throughout season 5, just didn't feel right without her so a big hit to the show in my opinion, a sad one for sure.

G'Kar - A legend... alongside Londo for sure! Absolutely loved G'Kar's arc and seeing him grow throughout the seasons, an absolute joy and both him and Londo together early seasons was just great, a very fun chemistry these 2 had. G'Kar's arc finished strong and it was sort of "the time has come to move on" type of ending for him which was great, fits his character with the direction he was going late seasons. It was always such a delight to watch G'Kar throughout, great character all the way through!

Zack Allan - Someone who you don't actually see all too much early stages who infact becomes a fantastic main character late stages pretty much when Garibaldi gets captured and from that point on wards. Zack grows on you real fast and fits in so well to the point you feel like he's always been there and he was there until the very end which I thought was nice, him seeing Sheridan on the Babylon 5 station one last time, was great seeing these 2 there looking back on the place long ago.

Vir - You can't mention Londo and not talk about Vir, another great character alongside Londo throughout, he was there from the beginning and things wouldn't feel right not seeing Vir with Londo.

Franklin - A character that to begin with just didn't click/fit in my opinion but over time I really started to like the Doc, he won me over as time went on and actually became a treat to watch and Babylon 5 would not be what it was without him, his character really grew on me.

Sinclair - Loved his character from the get go and was sad to see him leave after season 1, this felt like a huge loss to begin with but Sheridan does a great job taking on his role, just a shame why Michael O'Hare had to leave and no one had any clue as to why until he passed away pretty much?

I'm still not happy that they never brought back Sinclair's Intro as it's hands down the best Intro to this day out of all shows haha! Such a powerful voice as well.


There are a few others for sure but just wanted to cover the main ones, give you my thoughts on it.

Now it's time to decide on my next move, do I watch Babylon 5 from the beginning again and see if my eye can catch out any parts I missed or if I pick up on stuff differently, maybe watch the new remastered version? I think that could be cool seeing it all in a different light essentially.

I think this is something I might do but man it will be sooooooo strange to see Delenn as a full Minbari again and all the other characters being so different when starting out again lol, although Londo was quite funny in the early stages as well and G'Kar!

I was checking out some other sci-fi shows just to see what else is out there that I have not seen, some that I can see are The Expanse and Farscape, anyone seen those? Although to be honest I don't really feel ready to move on from Babylon 5 lol! It feels like a piece of my life is now just "missing" all of a sudden lol!

Most likely going to see if I can find the remastered version and watch that from the start, kinda of wish I could forget it all and watch again haha but I bet everyone thinks that!

Last edited by Axionz; April 4th 21 at 20:41.
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Old April 4th 21, 21:01   #56
babylonfan
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Re: New To Babylon 5

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Originally Posted by Axionz View Post
One thing I would have liked though was to see Londo at the table with the rest of them on the last episode for Sheridans sort of last meal with the crew, sort of felt like Londo not being there was out the blue but I guess it feeds across the fact the Shadow allies had no more use for him and so killed him?
What happens to Londo is explained in the Centauri Prime book trilogy by Peter David. Well worth a read, if you can find it. Usually it is cheaper to buy the hardcover omnibus instead of the three separate soft-covers.

Even without the books, it makes sense not to include Londo in this scene. It closes the prophecy by lady Morella (S03E09) that Vir becomes emperor after Londo’s death.

There is still some B5 material left. Several books and comics (canon and non-canon). A few TV movies of varying quality, and the spin-off show Crusade. Crusade showed great potential, but was cancelled halfway season one, leaving every storyline wide open. For that reason alone, watching it might be more frustrating then it is worth.
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Old April 5th 21, 02:54   #57
Looney
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Re: New To Babylon 5

I would watch CRUSADE and the movies before starting the series again. At a minimum you should watch IN THE BEGINNING before starting the series over. RIVER OF SOULS and THIRDSPACE are not so tied to the arc that you have to see them before re-watching the series, but you need to watch A CALL TO ARMS before watching CRUSADE and IN THE BEGINNING before starting the series over again.

Oh I remember what you are feeling right now. Of course as I've said before, when I got to where you are I still had hope that CRUSADE would be coming and be great and that more B5 Universe would be down the road.
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Old April 5th 21, 12:54   #58
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Re: New To Babylon 5

Hey Axionz, glad you got to the end of the show and enjoyed it! Though as Looney and babylonfan point out, you've not finished B5 yet! There's still a bit more content that I don't think you've seen yet. Have you watched In the Beginning?

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Londo

One thing I would have liked though was to see Londo at the table with the rest of them on the last episode for Sheridans sort of last meal with the crew, sort of felt like Londo not being there was out the blue but I guess it feeds across the fact the Shadow allies had no more use for him and so killed him?
Remember we saw Londo's (and G'Kar's) fate in Sheridan's flash-forward in War Without End part 2. The final episode, Sleeping in Light, is set about 2 years after that, I think. And we see a bit of this period in In the Beginning too.

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Ivanova - What can I say here, loved Ivanova and thought she was great all the way through as well, just such a damn shame she left at the end of Season 4 like that and was just gone.

I did read up on this and from what I can see apparently she just didn't sign the contract for season 5 at the last minute? I read that she just wanted to go a different path and lean more towards the movie industry at the time? But regardless she was very missed throughout season 5, just didn't feel right without her so a big hit to the show in my opinion, a sad one for sure.
That situation was a big, big mess. Claudia said she wanted a few episodes off to film a movie, JMS was happy to do that but there was some problem with the contract, everyone signed contracts except for CC, who held out and in the end the show had to move on.

At least they'd filmed Sleeping in Light before she left, so we got to see her one more time.

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I'm still not happy that they never brought back Sinclair's Intro as it's hands down the best Intro to this day out of all shows haha! Such a powerful voice as well.
Definitely, he had a fantastic voice, and I thought he played the role of Sinclair so well.

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I was checking out some other sci-fi shows just to see what else is out there that I have not seen, some that I can see are The Expanse and Farscape, anyone seen those? Although to be honest I don't really feel ready to move on from Babylon 5 lol! It feels like a piece of my life is now just "missing" all of a sudden lol!

Most likely going to see if I can find the remastered version and watch that from the start, kinda of wish I could forget it all and watch again haha but I bet everyone thinks that!
The Expanse is very good, but is too serious - it doesn't have the playfulness that B5 had. I think the Expanse books are better than the show.

I've not seen Farscape in ages, and only the first season or so, but it's worth a watch. It's on Amazon Prime so I should really take my own advice one of these days and give it a re-watch.

And I echo what everyone says about how your second watch of B5 will be very different to your first watch. You'll notice so many things, so much foreshadowing! For example, keep an eye on the headlines on Garibaldi's newspapers!
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Old April 18th 21, 23:22   #59
Axionz
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Re: New To Babylon 5

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One thing I would have liked though was to see Londo at the table with the rest of them on the last episode for Sheridans sort of last meal with the crew, sort of felt like Londo not being there was out the blue but I guess it feeds across the fact the Shadow allies had no more use for him and so killed him?
What happens to Londo is explained in the Centauri Prime book trilogy by Peter David. Well worth a read, if you can find it. Usually it is cheaper to buy the hardcover omnibus instead of the three separate soft-covers.

Even without the books, it makes sense not to include Londo in this scene. It closes the prophecy by lady Morella (S03E09) that Vir becomes emperor after Londo’s death.

There is still some B5 material left. Several books and comics (canon and non-canon). A few TV movies of varying quality, and the spin-off show Crusade. Crusade showed great potential, but was cancelled halfway season one, leaving every storyline wide open. For that reason alone, watching it might be more frustrating then it is worth.
Ahh yeh I remember that now, but for sure will be adding the book to the list, especially if you're saying it's well worth the read! quite exciting! I still have a good few of the movies to go through at the moment, I've seen The Gathering which I watched before the Seasons, I also watched ThirdSpace half way through as well but the rest I've kept until the end.

So the next one I will be watching is "In The Beginning".


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Originally Posted by Looney View Post
I would watch CRUSADE and the movies before starting the series again. At a minimum you should watch IN THE BEGINNING before starting the series over. RIVER OF SOULS and THIRDSPACE are not so tied to the arc that you have to see them before re-watching the series, but you need to watch A CALL TO ARMS before watching CRUSADE and IN THE BEGINNING before starting the series over again.

Oh I remember what you are feeling right now. Of course as I've said before, when I got to where you are I still had hope that CRUSADE would be coming and be great and that more B5 Universe would be down the road.
Yeh I will be watching all these for sure, In The Beginning is up next and after I have seen all the movies and I will check out what Crusade is like, I'm sure that will feel so strange because it's not the good old crew!

I will definitely be watching it all from season 1 again, I already really miss the cast and so much is lost in terms of characters by the time it hits Season 5 which is a shame.


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Hey Axionz, glad you got to the end of the show and enjoyed it! Though as Looney and babylonfan point out, you've not finished B5 yet! There's still a bit more content that I don't think you've seen yet. Have you watched In the Beginning?

Hey man, yeh it was great and as I mentioned above I miss all the characters and how that world was during the earlier seasons, so deffo gonna be watching it again from the start, absolutely LOVED the Shadow Wars story line... amazing.

I'm about to stick that movie on now haha, looking forward to it and will be a blast I'm sure!

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Originally Posted by Axionz View Post
Londo

One thing I would have liked though was to see Londo at the table with the rest of them on the last episode for Sheridans sort of last meal with the crew, sort of felt like Londo not being there was out the blue but I guess it feeds across the fact the Shadow allies had no more use for him and so killed him?
Remember we saw Londo's (and G'Kar's) fate in Sheridan's flash-forward in War Without End part 2. The final episode, Sleeping in Light, is set about 2 years after that, I think. And we see a bit of this period in In the Beginning too.

Yeh I remember seeing that way back!

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Originally Posted by Axionz View Post
Ivanova - What can I say here, loved Ivanova and thought she was great all the way through as well, just such a damn shame she left at the end of Season 4 like that and was just gone.

I did read up on this and from what I can see apparently she just didn't sign the contract for season 5 at the last minute? I read that she just wanted to go a different path and lean more towards the movie industry at the time? But regardless she was very missed throughout season 5, just didn't feel right without her so a big hit to the show in my opinion, a sad one for sure.
That situation was a big, big mess. Claudia said she wanted a few episodes off to film a movie, JMS was happy to do that but there was some problem with the contract, everyone signed contracts except for CC, who held out and in the end the show had to move on.

At least they'd filmed Sleeping in Light before she left, so we got to see her one more time.

Yeh it was such a shame, huge loss for the show with Claudia not coming on board and again I've said it so much but it's so true, so much was lost by the time season 5 hit which makes you really miss the earlier seasons a lot.

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I'm still not happy that they never brought back Sinclair's Intro as it's hands down the best Intro to this day out of all shows haha! Such a powerful voice as well.
Definitely, he had a fantastic voice, and I thought he played the role of Sinclair so well.

He is a legend for sure!

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Originally Posted by Axionz View Post
I was checking out some other sci-fi shows just to see what else is out there that I have not seen, some that I can see are The Expanse and Farscape, anyone seen those? Although to be honest I don't really feel ready to move on from Babylon 5 lol! It feels like a piece of my life is now just "missing" all of a sudden lol!

Most likely going to see if I can find the remastered version and watch that from the start, kinda of wish I could forget it all and watch again haha but I bet everyone thinks that!
The Expanse is very good, but is too serious - it doesn't have the playfulness that B5 had. I think the Expanse books are better than the show.

I've not seen Farscape in ages, and only the first season or so, but it's worth a watch. It's on Amazon Prime so I should really take my own advice one of these days and give it a re-watch.

And I echo what everyone says about how your second watch of B5 will be very different to your first watch. You'll notice so many things, so much foreshadowing! For example, keep an eye on the headlines on Garibaldi's newspapers!
Yeh I will add The Expanse to my watch list for sure and will check out Farscape down the line at some point probably as well. The Expanse books eh, something I'll need to keep in mind for sure! Already looking at buying that book about Londo as mentioned above by babyonfan.

I think I will enjoy watching it through for a second time as well, but I can see myself getting pissed when it gets to late stage again and everyone is leaving! lol.

Hope you're all keeping well!

Last edited by Axionz; April 18th 21 at 23:26.
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