What Makes Babylon 5 so Great??

Well said Icarus:
Being a sci-fi fan I watched quite a few of the shows over the years. Star trek - Battlestar Galactica etc.
My favorite as of present is the Babylon 5 series.

An ongoing story (as opposed to Star Trek), good characters generally played quite well by the actors, lot of good plots along the line , nice music.

A story line you can live within.

I'm just sorry they could not continue with an equally good series about the rangers.

Welcome to the board Wolfrat.

I like the intricate politics infused with the story arc that takes place over several seasons. I also like learning the motivating influences of each character throughout the entire series. I found that opinions I had of the various characters and races at the start of the first season episodes changed over the different seasons as I learned more about each of them and saw things from their points of view.

It's funny, when I read all the different posts placed on this board by all the B fivers out there, the commen ground which everybody appears to have taken a stand on is JMS's interpretation and visualization of human nature and the various aspects there of Kraig mentions that he likes the politics. I personally enjoyed the character developments over the past couple of years. others have mentioned the day to day interaction between individuals as well as species. Ironically enough as much as B5 set a new standard for CGI and planned battle scenes, they appear to take the back seat. The things that make B5 great are the actors, the storyline, the arcs, the writer, the characters , the cgi and the list can go on forever! but what it boils down to is that it's the best show ever!

I am also fascinated by character development and interaction. I love how diffferent characters relate to one another and how their actions affect each other in different ways. When you look at the different characters that have been on Babylon 5 and the notice the different ways that each interacted with the others, there are all kinds of different degrees of relationships displayed.

Espeicially the Delenn / Sheridan romance! initially I didn't see it coming and even when the sighns became more obvious. Here was a memeber of the grey council and the infamous Starkiller falling in love!
Yes , well I'm a soppy romantic.

Nothing wrong with being a soppy romantic, IMHO. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

Right now I am watching season 5 episodes. One thing that you see in season 5 after watching the 4 previous seasons is Londo and G'Kar's relationship. They went from hating each other and the other's race to being almost friends. G'Kar is assigned as Londo's bodyguard by Delenn, and they spend alot of time together in season 5. You can see them begin to tolerate, and even like each other. That 's definitely a far cry from where they were when they both wanted to kill each other!

Why is it that everytime there is a discussion about the merits of B5 it turns into Trek bashing??? I've said it here before, if there were no Trek, there would be no B5. That has nothing to do with the quality of B5 or the writing. It has to do with the fact that Trek opened doors and when Paramount started making $$$ others realized that science fiction viewers weren't all crazy loner geeks with nothing better to do with themselves but act out role playing games & discuss "stupid" topics that no one in the main stream cared about.

The best thing about Roddenbery's baby is that people who wouldn't have admitted to watching sci-fi if their very lives depended on it openly quote Spock and can tell you what a dillithium crystal is. (though I obviously can't spell it) /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif Say whatever you want, but the fan base for Trek is over 30 years old and gets stronger every day. And it was TNG that made it possible for an hour long sci-fi show to make a successful weekly showing during prime time. Why can't we ever give ourselves a reality check? Don't like Wesley Crusher? Well, you wouldn't know who he was if you hadn't watched the show!

Back to the topic, and off my mad rant. I was drawn to B5 for the same reasons that I settled into DS9. At some point I realized that there was an over-all story being told and I wanted to find out what it was. Don't get me wrong, prior to both shows I watched TNG and was happy for high quality graphics and interesting story lines. --Buck Rodgers in the 25th Century (or whenever) it wasn't.--

I'm the first one to admit that I'm one big ole science fiction geek. But, I have my standards and don't like just anything. I only read two sci-fi serials, B5 & Trek. (and I'm pretty particular about my Trek so not just anyone--though I reluctantly admit to having bought 2 Voyager books but I was desperate for something sci fi to read & they didn't kill me)

B5 caught me by accident. I didn't know what it was & had never heard of it. But, the local network did something interesting. It showed new episodes of DS9 at 8:00, squeezed B5 in at 9:00, then put TNG on at 10:00 and a 1st or 2nd season DS9 rerun on at 11:00. If they hadn't done that, I wouldn't have caught B5. And, if it hadn't been for my 1) love of sci-fi 2) serious interest in the developing story of DS9 and 3) the stations formatting, I wouldn't have watched the show. ---Granted, I think they were just dumping all the sci-fi on at one time, but it filled up my Friday nights 'cause that was no longer 'date night' in my house!

Aside from it being a serial, or perhaps because it was, I think B5 was great because it not only told a big story with side stories but we got to really know the characters. They had personality and it was like a soap opera. I know B5ers who talk about Ivanova like she was Daytime's biggest diva, Erica Kane (aka Susan Lucci).

Finally, one thing that is unique to science fiction story telling is that it incorporates a significant amount of mysticism and religious symbolism. B5 did that and even had atheists living and dying for the one out here in viewer land. Bits and pieces of that are found in other sci-fi shows and even the over-all Trek universe but it is most noted in B5 & DS9. Many don't like that and those are the folks who didn't like either of these shows. There is something different in the viewers and lovers of these two sci-fi genres (yes, they get to be a genre) which sets the fans apart from others. It does not make us "better", "smarter", more "deep" or "intellectual". It makes us different and that is why we think B5 is so great. The show brought something to us that we felt was missing from other shows, it captured our attention and held us for 5 (or 7) years. Obviously, the bulk of sci-fi viewers didn't feel the same way or the same thing for either of these two shows because we didn't break ratings records.

Oh, and I will be buying the complete DVD sets of both B5 and DS9 when they become available.

I think I might use that entire message as my new signature for this site.

I think trek was more of a hinderance than anything else.
1 of the biggest obstacles in the way of jms getting a go ahead for B5 was that apart from Trek, no other sci-fi series had lasted more that a season or 2, and that those shows invariably went over-budget.
The great thing about B5's CGI is that even when new rendering techniques make the images look phoney, the sheer artistry an 3D of the FX will always make up for it:
like the G'dok jumping in during WALKABOUT and skewering the Shadow Battlecrab, the way those Whitestars swooped and banked in Between the Darkness and the Light, the AGGYflying thru the defense platform in Endgame,...
I could go on for hours..

As many have noticed, I like to hack and slash Star Trek. Yes I agree with you star treck was a pioneer and will always rank as one of the greatest sci-fi concepts ever. I would disagree that without star trek B5 wouldn't exist but that is merely personal opinion and I'm sure we could argue till the cows come home!
The point I want to make is that i'm not a B5 zealot (well not completely anyway, I still harbour secret dreams of being a ranger)
I admire and respect Gene roodenberry as one of the greatest sci-fi pioneers, up the there with Isaac Asimov and the likes.
The problem is the star trek producers and writers, in actual fact the entire company that backs them is flogging a dead horse with TNG. The episodes are sterile. Amazing CGI, yet sterile characters! Initialy I liked DS9 but it lost momentum by the second series. Voyager is very good and I'm still waiting to see the first 3 episodes my friend taped off satellite. All reports have been quite favourable thus far!

But you cannot compare it with B5. The storyline and charcter developement are well thought through and portrayed by talented actors. star trek is like the Centauri, far past their prime and looking to hang on to the coat tail of others!

I think that my disgust with Trek has to do with the fact that Trek goes on & on, even though the quality has suffered, & B5 can't seem to catch a break these days! I mean, why can't a spinoff in the B5 universe survive? Something always seems to go wrong.

I do agree that character development was a lot better in B5. The only series that even gets close to it is Farscape. You just never know what is going to happen with the FS characters, & you end up caring about them. I haven't cared about any Trek characters in quite awhile.

Tammy

Old fashioned favouritism! Star Trek isn't better than B% , simply more established. They went out on a limb producing B5 but ST has a huge budget to pump out mindless sap!

To add something new to the mix, the mighty GKarsEye loves B5 because it doesn't pull any punches. Two major characters, one of which is a fan favorite, are shown to succumb to drug addictions for extended periods of time, effecting the Big Picture story. Another major character is responsible for the destruction of millions of lives due to his own character failings- and he doesn't get a break. He suffers, big time. Lots of torture and death and horror. The repurcussions of these people's actions come back to bite them in the ass. Now, that's drama.

And yes, Trek bashing here is completely pointless and silly.

Hmmm......I wonder who those characters might be.... /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

Yeah, GKE brings up a good point. We see B5 characters go through very difficult times and do some pretty bad things, but they aren't really bad people. They just made choices that ended up turning out badly.

Guys, I really hate to sound like the poster child for Trek 'cause I'm not. But, I just don't see what one franchise has to do with the other. I watched both and liked both. Though I had a hard time getting into Crusade at first & then it was gone and the final season of B5 was not all that great to me. Just didn't like the Byron-pycho Leita thing.

Its only my opinion but I really don't think its fair to hate Star Trek because it stays on the air and B5 can't catch a break. That's not because there's some evil science fiction syndicate in Hollywood with an axe to grind against JMS & B5 but because ----as much as WE loved the show---- it wasn't all that popular (translation $$$$$$$) with a lot of viewers.

Yes, I believe the quality of Trek has suffered but I think it has to have something to do with the viewing audience & the execs who cater to them. Love Trek (not all but some), can't stand the movies because they seem too dumbed down for the masses. And, the millions of people who go to see them at the theater aren't tuning in every week to each of the series.

On another note, I still say that while JMS hit the mark with the concept of B5, he went a bit too far with subtle forshadowing & cryptic sub plots which turned out to be major story lines. Yeah, his characters were "real", at least they had real human faults & problems but he's not the first one to do that. I hate comparing Trek to B5 or really comparing different sci fi shows with one another for the very reason that they are different. Let's face it folks, if they were all the same we'd be arguing about that. I wasn't so impressed that Franklin had a drug addiction. I live in the real world & I see a lot of people with drug or alcohol addictions. I love Ivanova but she wasn't all that fleshed out. If we REALLY look at her, she was almost a sterotype. We had some background & there were good episodes about her past but nothing, NOTHING like what we got about Londo & G'kar. Those two had really good chemistry & I thought JMS wrote them well. On closer scrutiny, Garibaldi wasn't completely developed. Yeah, he was an alcoholic screw up turned good guy-bad guy-good guy. But, it was a little too easy to have him hit the bottle every so often. I'd have liked to see more but I am VERY happy with what I got. It wasn't JMS' fault because she did leave on her own, but Talia wasn't complete.

There were some stand alone episodes that I think could have been better used to fill in some information gaps. Maybe that would've been a good time for me to get some history of Psi Corpes, learn about Garibaldi's expereince on Mars, flesh out the Technomages, see some of the one part of the entire story that has been bugging me for years----Valen.

So OT but, instead of the TV movie on the Legend of the Rangers, I would have prefered, "Babylon 5: Valen". Ya'll will get tired of me commenting on that but that's my drum & I'll keep beating it. I wanted to see what happened after B4's arrival. And, as long as I'm second guessing JMS (will this get me into the nit picker's club??) I'd rather have LOTR start with the LEGEND. Like how it got started instead of what they're up to post seson 5. IMO, these things really would've made B5 great.