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'Revenge of the Sith' reviews (Spoilers)

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Similarly nobody (at least in the industry) wants to tell Lucas his films have been getting worse and worse over the years.

I wondered the same thing about Rick McCallum (producer), Ben Burtt (sound/editing), and other Lucas loyalists. You know they've had a sweet ride for 30 years. McCallum's family is probably set for life. He would probably be stupid to risk telling George when he's doing something funky. A lot of positive credit needs to go to Burtt for sounds, which are incredibly unique in Star Wars films. However, as editor, you'd think he had more than enough opportunities to make a comment or pose a question about performances and why Lucas directed actors the way he did.

Lucas, McCallum, and Burtt did commentary on the Ep. 2 DVD about why they cut out certain scenes, and I really disagree with a few of their choices. They cut out some scenes that really would have enhanced and explained Padme's character. My nickname for them after that was The Three Stooges.

And most actors aren't going to push to hard, either. When people as talented as Natalie Portman and Samuel L. Jackson come off as badly as they do in this film you can point directly to George Lucas and his inability to understand what a good performance looks like.

There were several times when I couldn't help but think, "Why did Lucas not yell 'cut' and ask the actor/actress to try that scene again?".

The lava planet is like the light at the end of the tunnel.

I just thought of something. The lava-mining operation on Mustafar looks like it's been there for a while. I don't remember any particular action that causes the lava eruptions to get worse, but for some reason they do, causing the platform Anakin & Obi-Wan are on to break off. Had everyone shown up to Mustafar a little later, it may have been too unsafe to land, and everything would have turned out very different. Kind of convenient that things got worse while the main characters happened to be there, just so a fight could occur on a breaking platform.

Some people complain about JMS's dialogue, saying it is too "stagy" and self-consciously articulate, that the speeches sometimes go on too long...

The same could be said of The West Wing and Gilmore Girls. Sometimes, their over-articulation and staginess doesn't work, but most of the time it does, and they're both excellent shows.

Lucas has uniformly bad taste in naming people, places and things.

Good:
- Alderaan
- Coruscant (although, I think the novel writers made up that name)
- Dagobah
- Darth Vader
- Endor
- Jabba the Hutt
- Lando Calrissian
- Luke/Anakin Skywalker
- Malastare
- Obi-Wan Kenobi
- Qui-Gon Jinn
- Tatooine
- Utapau (sounds weird but a good kind of weird)

Bad:
- Bail Organa (Bail always makes me think of Baal, which I think is a false god in the Bible)
- Boss Nass
- Boz Pity
- Mon Calamari (isn't calamari something you can order at a seafood restaurant)
- Count Dooku
- Darth Plagueis/Sidious/Maul/Tyranus
- Geonosis (sounds too much like a distortion of Genesis)
- Grand Moff Tarkin (cool baddy, nice name, bad title; what is a Moff and how grand can it be?)
- Greivous
- Jar Jar Binks
- Ki-Adi-Mundi
- Kit Fisto
- Mace Windu
- Mustafar (sounds too much like Rastafarian)
- Naboo
- Nute Gunray (Trade Fed. viceroy)
- Padme Amidala (sounds royal but doesn't roll of the tongue well)
- SHMI Skywalker (Shmi? Anakin's mom got screwed on naming)
- Theed (capital of Naboo)

They also become confusing because Lucas keeps using the same sound elements over and over (Padme/Padwan, Dantooine/Tatooine)

According to Wikipedia, there are several more Star Wars worlds that end in "-ooine". I can accept that as a common planetary suffix in the Star Wars universe the same way "-shire", "-ton", "-boro", "-ham", "-ville", etc. are city suffixes in ours.

Also, you gotta admit, that even JMS is guilty of this to a certain extent:

- Minbari, Centauri, Brakiri
- Delenn (B5), Dulann (LotR)
- Findell (B5), Sindell (LotR)
- Lady Ladira (Kiro's seer), Adira (Londo's lover),
- Turhan (Centauri emperor), Durhan (Minbari ranger)
- Dureena Nafeel (Crusade), Na'Feel (Narn female in LotR)
- Dureena is trained by someone named Tafeek; Tafeek is a character in LotR
- John Sheridan, John Matheson (Crusade)
- Elizabeth Sheridan, Elizabeth Lochley
- David Sheridan, David Corwin, David Martel (LotR)
- Sarah Chambers (Crusade), Sara Cantrell (LotR)
- Emfeeli (Minbari ship in Shadow Dancing), Enphili (a race in season 5)
- G'Kar, G'Quon, G'Lon, G'Stan

Granted, some of those are intentional, such as the common Narn prefixes. Plus, John, David, Elizabeth, and Sarah are common names. I've even had two best freinds at the same time, both named Dave. However, I thought when you're writing fiction, you intentionally try to mix up your names a bit, and to use four different Human names and two different alien names at least twice each--alog with other similarities--within 123 episodes of two series and five TV movies seems like a bit of a trend.

And the worst choice of similar names ever: Sauron & Saruman from Lord of the Rings. Cool names separately, but a little coincidental put together as villains in the same story. What was Tolkein thinking?

I kept wanting to yell, "Stop! Enough! I can't see anything!" The movie is too "busy" there are simply too many explosions, too many ships, too many clones/droids/whatevers, for the eye to focus on, or even take in, and everything in the battle scenes moves too fast. The result actually undercuts the audience's ability to feel any connection to the action, or even quite understand what is happening.

I agree with you. Sometimes my brain literally can't keep up and take it all in. A friend of mine says he actually liked it. I'm okay with "grand scale" shots, such as the MASSIVE shot of armies in LotR:FotR's prologue, the fleet shots in B5, the colliding armies in Braveheart, etc. However, you never want to distract too much from heroes. When Isildur, Sauron, Elrond, the main White Star, or William Wallace get a close-up, we barely see what's in the background and we can tell what's happening to the people/ships that matter.

I'm somewhat okay with the jumbled space battle because it's meant to be chaotic and the scope of space is unavoidably big, but the battle on Kashyyyk could have been better. While it "looked" better, I still enjoyed the Ewok battle on Endor more. Granted the Ewoks can be unnecessarily cute even in battle, but at least you could tell what each little group was doing, who was succeeding, who was outmatched, who was dying, etc. Despite the scope of the battle, you still have a sense of individuality. The Kashyyyk battle looked like a great big metal-and-fur cannon-fodder fest.

Did anyone else have the opening to The Six Million Dollar Man running through their heads toward the end there? ("We can rebuild him. We can make him stronger, faster...")

No, but after the second time seeing it I did think that a flashback montage, ala Londo Mollari before he accepts the Keeper, would have been a good way of building sympathy for Anakin being trapped in that suit and mask, or at the very least would have summarized the different steps Anakin took to the Dark Side. The Anakin viewpoint seeing the face plate come down over him was a nice touch, but overall the suit and helmet scene went awfully quick. There was really no time for sympathy. On the other hand, considering what Anakin had done up to the at point, sympathy may not have been appropriate.

My inner Yoda-voice said suddenly said, "F*cked, we are"

"Screwed ourselves, we did. Mishandled a prophecied threat, we should not have. Been nicer to midichlorian-spawnboy, we should have. Bad advice, the pushing aside of emotional attachments was. To craphole swampworld to hide, I must go."

The second Death Star, bigger and more powerful than the first, was nearly completed in the relatively short interval between "A New Hope" (hate that stupid title) and Empire and had its weapon systems fully functional.

That's assuming that the 2nd one was not started until the 1st one was destroyed. I'm thinking the 2nd one was probably started no more than a decade after the 1st was. At the time of Ep. 6, Death Star 2 was still not complete, so it was probably started but even less further along during Ep. 4. Also, according to http://www.merzo.net, the 2nd one had a 33% bigger diameter than the 1st, so it would have taken longer even if they both had been started at the same time.

Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dates_in_Star_Wars#Film_timeline for a timeline of the films to see how many years were between each episode of the story.
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

So let's see - it took 18 years to finish the first Death Star, and when it was completed it still had a fatal flaw. The second Death Star, bigger and more powerful than the first, was nearly completed in the relatively short interval between "A New Hope" (hate that stupid title) and Empire and had its weapon systems fully functional.
I have worked on defence contracts like that. On the first version not only do you have to debug both the software and the hardware but invent the tools as well.

The Mark 2 uses the plans and tools of the Mark 1. Bigger may simply mean more of the same - think RAM (or floors). With a few extra tweaks to get it to work.
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Could be. I think many of Lucas' names are rather obvious, Darth Vader/invader, Darth Sidious/insidious, Emperor Palpatine/palatine, meaning the Palatine Hills of Rome, or, having royal priveleges.

I have read that Lucas did try very hard to get Lawrence Kasdan to script one, or preferably, all three prequel eps, direct them if he wanted to, and offered him many millions to do so, but Kasdan refused. I wish he had agreed. Lucas says he wants to make "small films" now, so, I guess we and he, will get to see how his writing and direction go over with the general public in something less iconic than Star Wars.


Addendum: Sith sounds like a snake with a lisp... ;)
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

According to an interview with Lawrence Kasdan that I read years ago, Leigh Brackett had barely started on the Empire script, after writing a somewhat sketchy outline, before she died of cancer. That's why the final screenplay is virtuallly all his. (Lucas aparently tried his hand at a draft before wisely bringing Kasdan in, so if there was a bad early draft it is more likely Lucas's than Brackett's. ;))

Kasdan says that they gave her full screenplay co-writer credit both to honor her memory and so that her family would be entitled to full royalties.

Regards,

Joe
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

I just thought of something. The lava-mining operation on Mustafar looks like it's been there for a while. I don't remember any particular action that causes the lava eruptions to get worse, but for some reason they do, causing the platform Anakin & Obi-Wan are on to break off. Had everyone shown up to Mustafar a little later, it may have been too unsafe to land, and everything would have turned out very different. Kind of convenient that things got worse while the main characters happened to be there, just so a fight could occur on a breaking platform.

No, the installations are protected by forcefields, but those fields were shutoff when Anakin and Obi-wan were duelling in the control room. One of them slashed a control panel, shutting the fields. It was a quick shot, but they showed them go down, leaving the facilities vulnerable to the lava.

It's a background thing that wasn't really highlighted well, though. You could see shield effects in the background of some shots as pieces of lava were deflected before the grand duel.
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

It's sad to say, but I thought the Battlestar Galactica 2003 mini-series was better than Eps. 1-3. To say nothing of the new series itself.
The BSG mini-series had terrific writing/characters/acting, real sense of dread, great chemistry, sense of hope in a desperate time...none of these things came out of Eps. 1-3. It' s a lesson in how you take a known quantity and make it BETTER the next time around, not worse.
Obi-Wan was the best thing about any of the prequels.
Anyway, it's over, but it's not convincing. I'll watch the original trilogy on VHS, unaltered, and say "thanks for the memories."

Jendia
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Yeah, when I get some time I have to dig out my old laserdisc player, upload the original trilogyTHX certified widescreen release to my hard drive, then archive it to DVD.

Regards,

Joe
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

I SO wish I had any way to get to the original original trilogy .. not really :D .. the only way I personally have is borring german VHS tapes. Not really that hot on that idea either.

Pity that anyone independtently marketing the unaltered version of the original trilogy would be most illegal .. oh well. Sucks that Lucas didn't somehow manage to lose the rights to the original trilogy after it was done.
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Of course, the fun part is that Anakin does eventually kill Sidious and restore balance even though it takes him losing everyone he cared about for years only to finally discover his children and see his son in pain to respark the Jedi sensibility of helping the helpless that he once adhered to long ago.

Lucas stated this point plainly in an interview. He cautioned reading into prophesy, as it sometimes doesn't play out exactly the way you want it to. Anakin did what was prophesied. In a way, he was like the deepest deep cover agent you could imagine; a black suited Donny Brasco that finally came to his senses and brought the Emperor down.

Lucas has good concepts in place, he just can't seem to execute them well anymore. Saw this film at 12:01 Thursday morning. Was mostly bored. Pity.

Grievous was ten times cooler in the Clone Wars cartoon (as were Anakin, Kenobi, and Windu for that matter).
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Grievous was ten times cooler in the Clone Wars cartoon (as were Anakin, Kenobi, and Windu for that matter).

Eh. I haven't seen them all, but it seems to me that while their powers were amplified, Kenobi was written as such a stick in the mud, and Anakin was, hard to imagine, even whinier than in AOTC. Yoda does such a blatant mind trick, I was worried that he was mentally deficient. So, yes, cooler in the sense that they can do awesome things with the Force, but not necessarily cooler characters.
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Grievous was ten times cooler in the Clone Wars cartoon

Am I the only one that didn't like Grievous? It seems to me that the only point of his character was to be something new and different that we've never seen before, and won't again, just like Darth Maul. He's just there as a new cult icon and to sell action figures.
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Much like Boba Fett, really.
I've seen volume 1 of the clone wars cartoons.
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

The only thing I didn't get/like about Grevious is the fact that he was always acting sickly and coughing all the time. Hes a freakin droid, why is he coughing? And yea, I saw he had a human heart (or sorta) and eyes and stuff....but I didnt see much of anything else that would cause him to cough.
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

The technical term would be a cyborg, right? Perhaps the coughing is explained in the Clone Wars series?
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

What is the clone wars series? I've just seen the movies, I have no idea what you are talking about...
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

The Clone Wars is a cartoon series on the Cartoon Network. I believe it just finished its third season. I think all the events in them take place betweein AotC and RotS. I think some of them are actually out on DVD now.
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

The only thing I didn't get/like about Grevious is the fact that he was always acting sickly and coughing all the time. Hes a freakin droid, why is he coughing? And yea, I saw he had a human heart (or sorta) and eyes and stuff....but I didnt see much of anything else that would cause him to cough.

He has a face under his mask: he is half-alien, half-droid. That's why he has eyes. I loved the fact that he was sick and decadent, like Darth Vader.

As for why he is sick... who knows. Why does Anakin have a scar? It's been a long war. Grievous was one of coolest things in the movie for me, though it is probably also thanks to John William's "guerrilla" theme he composed for every time he was on screen.
 
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Something people don't seem to get is that Star Wars is NOT about dialogue. It's more about about spaceships, and battles, aliens, droids, and lightsabers (excluding the ripped off Tao philosophy I don't really understand).

Lucas himself has admitted to it. The story is told visually. The language of color, the symbolism in the designs, etc. Lava planet- RED. DANGER: You are screwed there. Also, the incredible care that goes into creating the characters in Star Wars. The character may not have the best dialogue in the universe, but his *look* says all about him (the labourer bugs- builders, and the cloners in Episode II- you saw those guys and knew they must have high tech). You see Yoda and you think he must be a wise old man. The environments, and the light applied to them. As in the end of Episode II. A digital sunset can be very powerful to emphasize the end of a civilization.

Yeah, everyone has ideas on how the movies should be, or how the dialogue should be. But those ideas belong to fantasy land, as there is no way to test them. Lucas, however, was on the set. Also, to compare Lucas to other writers and artists and say "he should do things like they do" is incredibly... indifferent. I'll take the good with the bad, and take his work as his. He doesn't have to conform to Joss Whedon, or JMS, or any Los Angeles writer. Mainly because Star Wars is another kind of animal, special- not just another Hollywood film.

Just my two cents. :)
 

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