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The Title - again

There being little else to do with regard to B5 at the moment beyond continuing to be bummed about Richard Bigg's passing and waiting for an announcement from Warner Bros., I decided the play the "title game" again. Since Dan Dassow of the Mod was kind enough to sort the list of titles that JMS said included the correct one into alphabetical order, I decided to see if it could be whittled down to something managable by eliminating titles according to some relatively objective rules.

The list started out with 506 entries. I started with three assumptions:

1) The "TMoS" could be either a final or a current working title

2) That case matters in the title, and therefore the "o" had to both be included in any guess and represent a word that would not be capitalized in a title

3) That even for a working title JMS would use something straight-forward and not whimsical or too "in-jokey"

(In fact, I don't think JMS would have released the initials of something that he knew was merely a place-holder or working title, but I was trying to make as few assumptions as possible.)

These three assumptions led me to immediately eliminate all purely "joke" titles, meaning everything with "Spoo" or "Straczynski" in the title, as well as all titles that either missed the initials or strained to cover them "TV-Movie or Series", "The Movie Script", etc.)

Amazingly enough after applying just those rules and not even trying to weed out titles I though inherently unlikely because they were bland, silly, or hard on the ear, and even having missed a couple that should have been cut, I found I had reduced the total to 48. Fewer than 10% of the guesses posted to the Mod turned out even to be worth considering. Amazingly at this point the list didn't contain a single guess that didn't start with the word "The"

Next I cut all the titles I thought too generic ("The Men of Space"? Puh-LEEZ) or too "inside" to mean anything to the general public ("The Mastery of Shadowtech", "The Metamorphosis of Sinclair") or too clunky to advertise. (The last title I mentioned could have been cut under both rules. "The Migration of Technomages" is another that strikes the ear with a dull thud.)

That got the list down to 32:

The Madness of Souls
The Magic of Shadows
The Makers of Shadows
The Making of Shadows
The March of Shadows
The Mark of Shadows
The Marriage of Sinclair
The Marriages of Sheridan
The Mask of Sorrows
The Master of Shadows
The Masters of Silence
The Meaning of Silence
The Memory of Shadows
The Memory of Sheridan
The Merchants of Souls
The Merging of Souls
The Migration of Souls
The Mind of Sheridan
The Minion of Shadows
The Minions of Shadows
The Moment of Silence
The Movement of Shadows
The Movement of Sinclair
The Movement of Starlight
The Movements of Shadows
The Movie or Series
The Murder of Souls
The Mystery of Sheridan
The Mystery of Souls
The Myth of Shadows
The Myth of Sheridan
The Myth of Souls


At this point I would do some further cutting. Despite the precendents of The Wrath of Khan and The Search for Spock, I seriously doubt that JMS would use a title with either Sheridan or Sinclair's name in it. (In fact I'd say the chance of Sinclair's name being used is zero since it seems unlikely he could be a major character in the kind of film WB is likely to want.) Neither has the exotic and memorable sound to American ears that both "Khan" and "Spock" do, and neither is a household word. One of the things a movie title needs to do is help sell the movie. It has to be something that at the very least intrigues the audience. (The Chronicles of Riddick ressonates with both history and fantasy titles and suggests an epic story, even to those who haven't seen Pitch Black.) The one possible exception to this is The Myth of Sheridan, since the word "myth" undercuts the bland ordinariness of "Sheridan", and a trailer identifying Sheridan as a living man would make people wonder what myths there could be about him.

Anyway, eliminating the titles that I think too obscure, too personal or too aethetically or marketing challenged leaves us with this group:

The Mark of Shadows
The Mask of Sorrows
The Master of Shadows
The Memory of Shadows
The Memory of Sheridan
The Merchants of Souls
The Minions of Shadows
The Moment of Silence
The Movement of Shadows
The Movement of Starlight
The Movement of Shadows
The Mystery of Sheridan
The Myth of Shadows
The Myth of Sheridan
The Myth of Souls

I suspect the actual title (assuming it doesn't change between now and the release date) is on this list, and that it is more likely that it contains the word "myth" and/or the word "shadow" than that it doesn't. :)

What do you all think?

P.S. You can access the full initial list that I worked from here.

Regards,

Joe
 
You did a great job on reducing the list Joe. Personally I think it will be "The Mark, Memory or Myth of Shadows."
Mind you if it had the work Sheridan in it I would go see it not matter what it was about. :D :p
 
My #1 favorite has been "The Mark of Shadows" since the beginning, and especially since Hawthorne when JMS indicated that Techno-Mages might play a part in the TMoS project. If telepaths are another part of the story the title still applies since the Shadows infiltrated and manipulated the Psi Corps too.

Oh, and you listed The Movement of Shadows twice in your final list. ;-)

Happy to see that all 3 of my serious guesses made the cut even though none of them is my favorite guess.

Jan
 
Joe,

I'll go with "The Myth of Shadows." "The Mark of Shadows" would mean little to those who have not seen B5, as do most on the final-cut list while "The Myth of shadows" would have non-fans asking themsevles "Who. or what, are the shadows?" and "What myth?"

My two cents! :)
 
I think "Shadows" is a sufficiently evocative word that any title that uses it will stir curiosity, especially in connection with what is obviously an SF film. So I don't think "Mark" is necssarily less plausible than "Myth" or "Memory". (Besides, Shadows don't leave marks, so what could this mean? :))

Oh, and the original list contained both "The Movement of Shadows" and "The Movements of Shadows". At some point I planned to cut "Movements" as a near-duplicate. Then when I looked over the final list, I saw it still there, but didn't register that "Movement" was also on the list. Thinking I'd cut the wrong one, I "corrected" "Movements". *Sigh*

And I think "Movement" is also a possibility. Sinclair's warning about Shadows "They move when you're not looking at them" comes to mind, as does "Movements of Fire and Shadow".

We'll just have to wait and see - as usual! ;)

Regards,

Joe
 
As soon as I saw the title "The Memory of Shadows" something clicked inside me and said "that's it." Given the timeframe we are assuming (i.e. post-B5-proper) I had to discount "movement" and "myth" as being too late and too soon, respectively.

Of course, the movie COULD take place in the B5-proper timeline, but I discount the possibilites both from the logical and esthetic standpoints. Logical because the story has been told, and adding to it would seem like filler bith to the writer and the audience (one of the reasons, IMO, for the ininspired scripts and reception for the two movies in which JMS did this), and esthetic becuse the actors would have to try to "revert" to previous charactors and "unlearn" all the lessons they learned during the series.

"The Memory of Shadows" plays perfectly into JMS's stated desired to re-open the Shadowtech issues left unresolved by the cancellation of crusade and also allows any exploitation desired of the Shadow-influenced PsiCorps and Technomages. In fact, it could build on the Shadowtech conspiracy, the TeepWar, and the Technomage dilemma simultaneously... without putting the Shadows so far in the past they are "myth."
 
I've been leaning towards The Memory of Shadows myself ever since JMS confirmed that one of the guesses was correct, and for many of the same reasons. But I don't have that could a track record when it comes to reading JMS's mind, so maybe my inclination is a reason not to bet on that title. :)

Regards,

Joe
 
And if we both agree on this, it is almost certain to be wrong! :LOL:

Now, if vacantlook and colonyearth also agree, it will be a slam-dunk "wrong answer, thank you for playing"! :D
 
Knowing JMS's titling style, I would say that Starlight is the 2nd most likely S word. However, if the correct title is in that list of guesses, and The Movement of Starlight is the only Starlight title, I would say that's probably not it. Movement just doesn't sound like a very logical M word. I say not very logical because it sounds neither dramatic nor marketable.

For the same reason, Memory doesn't make sense. Magic, Makers, March, Mark, Master, and Myth all sound more logical. Magic and Makers both tie in with Technomages ("singers, shapers, dreamers, and makers"). March implies a battle or military movement. Mark and Myth imply a legacy. And, Master implies power. Movement and Memory sound poetic but wimpy compared to the other M words.
 
I've been leaning towards The Memory of Shadows myself ever since JMS confirmed that one of the guesses was correct, and for many of the same reasons. But I don't have that could a track record when it comes to reading JMS's mind, so maybe my inclination is a reason not to bet on that title. :)

Regards,

Joe

Me too! :)

And I'm fairly certain that at the time that JMS wrote that "One of you are correct", the only good guess was The Memory of Shadows (since my Mozilla puts all posts within a thread in chronological order. It doesn't "sub-thread" (Anyone knows how to "fix" this???)).

/IamS
 
Given the list we are left with, The Memory of Shadows does seem the most logical choice - doesn't do anything for me personally, but hey I always thought To Live and Die in Starlight was a great title, but I was sure in the minority on that one, so what do I know.

Personally, I was hoping for an indepth study of Sheridan's early years as ISA President. Think about it ...

Babylon 5: Tedious Matters of State

Don't forget, you heard it here first ...

;)
 
:D
The West Wing in space!!!
The Myth/ Movement/ Mystery/ Memory of Shadows (delete according to choice) is as definate as i can get. I'll pit money on the Shadows bit.
 
GaribaldisHair wrote one 06/07/04 04:18 AM:

>Personally, I was hoping for an indepth study of Sheridan's early years as ISA President. >Think about it ...

>Babylon 5: Tedious Matters of State

>Don't forget, you heard it here first ...

Yet another place to check.
I will probably add this title to the master list next weekend.

For an alphabetical list of guesses:
http://webpages.charter.net/dandassow/tmosa.htm

For a chronological list of guesses:
http://webpages.charter.net/dandassow/tmosc.htm

For a list by author of guesses:
http://webpages.charter.net/dandassow/tmosg.htm
 
As soon as I saw the title "The Memory of Shadows" something clicked inside me and said "that's it."

Ditto - I felt exactly the same when I first saw that suggestion. The memory of Shadows has that JMS 'feel' to it, definatly the sort of title he would come up with.
 
Now, if vacantlook and colonyearth also agree, it will be a slam-dunk "wrong answer, thank you for playing"!

Well, of the available possible titles, The Memory of Shadows is the one I like best. Whether the story will deal with the telepaths or leftover Shadow technology, "memory" feels like a fitting word describing both.

I also like The Movement of Starlight, but I don't think that sounds as ominous as The Memory of Shadows.
 
Now, if vacantlook and colonyearth also agree, it will be a slam-dunk "wrong answer, thank you for playing"!

Well, of the available possible titles, The Memory of Shadows is the one I like best. Whether the story will deal with the telepaths or leftover Shadow technology, "memory" feels like a fitting word describing both.

I also like The Movement of Starlight, but I don't think that sounds as ominous as The Memory of Shadows.

Ok, I'll bite. You now have your consensus :D The Memory of Shadows has been the one that my little voice is telling me to count on. Instinct, I suppose. ;) It does invoke all elements we've argued over for the least several months: Teep War, Techno-Mages, Drakh...all of it. It has the ability to relate to a grander and more epic tale that could sweep over several films (if planned or asked for).

However, I will quantify this vote by saying I had never really thought deeply about The Myth of Shadows until Joe just put up the list again. It has the same ability, and yes, it has that mystery to it with the use of the word "Myth." But something tells me that that's one step too far. I could be wrong and cannot really explain why I feel that, so don't hold me to absolutes. :D

The Movement of Shadows I agree sounds too extant and is therefore probably not the title.

Something inside just says The Memory of Shadows. Now if The Mystery of Shadows had been on the list, I could have seen that one. Myth just doesn't roll trippingly off the tongue...sounds too much like lisping :p, and while we would "get it" and "think it sounded all wonderous," I think most average film-going, non-B5 fans would find it slightly over their heads and too pretentious.

Nope, I'll stick with The Memory of Shadows. :D

CE

PS: Surely we can't all be wrong :eek: :LOL:
 
Anyway, eliminating the titles that I think too obscure, too personal or too aethetically or marketing challenged leaves us with this group:

The Mark of Shadows
The Mask of Sorrows
The Master of Shadows
The Memory of Shadows
The Memory of Sheridan
The Merchants of Souls
The Minions of Shadows
The Moment of Silence
The Movement of Shadows
The Movement of Starlight
The Movement of Shadows
The Mystery of Sheridan
The Myth of Shadows
The Myth of Sheridan
The Myth of Souls


Hey, I still like my "Techno-Mages of Soom" guess. :LOL: Yeah, I know it's too "inside" to mean anything to the general public, and too hard on the ear/hard to say/easy to confuse.



The Mark of Shadows (too bland)
The Mask of Sorrows (Eh? No.)
The Master of Shadows (Naah.)
The Memory of Shadows (Ding! Ding! Ding! Promising.)
The Memory of Sheridan (too "inside")
The Merchants of Souls (Interesting.)
The Minions of Shadows (sounds minor)
The Moment of Silence (bland, generic. No.)
The Movement of Shadows (There you go! Ding! Ding! Ding! Promising. )
The Movement of Starlight (Please, no connection to TLaDiS.)
The Movement of Shadows (Um, that's a repeat.)
The Mystery of Sheridan (too "inside")
The Myth of Shadows (Myth is going to attract? Naah, I want truth.)
The Myth of Sheridan (Myth is going to attract? Naah, I want truth. Also, too "inside")
The Myth of Souls (Myth is going to attract? Naah, I want truth.)
 
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