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Cure for the Plague, (I think this would do it)

Hesperous

Beyond the rim
I thought I might place all of this as a spoiler, just because of the possibility.


<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> In B5, John Sheridan was given life by Lorien after his death at Za Ha Doom(sp?), not magic, but the redirecting of energies. Dr. Franklyn also discovered "things" inside his central nervious system, repairing and regenerating and healing. What says that they cannot extract samples of the "things", study them and apply them to the plague. His role in the b5 universe would save billion upon billions, making him not just the great leader but a true savior. The one. These things are most likely advanced microscopic robotics systems (nanobots)that breed, think and would be easly able to defeate the plague (that is also most likely nanotech) from a much younger and weaker race.</font></td></tr></table>



Tell me what you think...

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Interesting thought, but I don't think it would happen that way for the following reasons:

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Storywise, Franklin couldn't even figure out what the things were or how they worked. I'm assuming Sheridan has a limited number of them and that no one will ever be able to duplicte them. JMSwise, I figure he would want Crusade to stand on its own and would not pull out a conveniently available cure. Also, this is not Sheridan's story anymore. </font></td></tr></table>



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"Draal gave Zathras list of things not to say.
This was one. No.... *tsk tsk*
No. Not good.
Not supposed to mention... "one", or... THE one.
Hmmmm.
You never heard that."
 
Technomage Trilogy Spoilerama...

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> Technomages have "organelles" in their bodies produced by their Tech. They heal injuries at an accelerated rate. I was thinking maybe the EA would discover them and hunt down the TM for a cure. It would add to the problems the Mages already have... </font></td></tr></table>



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Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it.

" The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate for the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise to the occasion. We can not escape history. We will be remembered, in spite of ourselves. The fiery trial through which we pass will light us down in honor or dishonor, to the last generation. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose our last best hope."
 
<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> While the Earth Alliance might well hunt down mages believing their organelles could help cure the plaque, I'm quite certain that they would not as Galen would most likely have already tried directly or indirectly.

That said, misinformation could still drive the EA to pursue the mages for the organelles.

So, I would expect Galen would easily deter such actions through Gideon and the doctor with demonstrations of some kind.

It could still make for an interesting story line whereby Galen demonstrates and in a few limited skirmishes fights off EA forces hunting down mages. It would muddy the waters a bit. </font></td></tr></table>



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It never ends; it only changes!
 
I'd be willing to bet that the cure would have little, if anything, to do with old story lines. There's plenty of stuff out there in the galaxy that the Excalibur can find. And the cure would almost definitely have some connection with the next major story thread in Crusade: something to do with Earth developing Shadow tech or other shady dealings.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> EARTH ALLIANCE DEALS IN SHADOW TECHNOLOGY STILL- THEY HAVE MANY BASES WHICH DEVELOP AND STUDY IT- SINCE ITS A SHADOW PLAUGE MODIFIED TO KILL HUMANS , I'M SURE SECRETLY THEY COULD FINE THE CURE w/o THE EXCALIBUR! BUT SINCE THE ISA DOESNT KNOW ABOUT THE BASES , ITS LOST INFORMATION-CAUSE SHADOW TECH IS ILLEGAL </font></td></tr></table>



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<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> I've never seen anything saying Shadow Tech is Illegal.
It's just a really BAD idea.
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And, as far as Earth hunting down Technomages for their healing organelles, first, someone would have to Tell them the Technomages have the organelles.

Then, they'd have to Find a hiding place that was carefully chosen and hidden in such a way that even the Shadows couldn't find it.

I think the Technomages are safe in their rabbit hole.
So long as Alice doesn't drop in on them.
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</font></td></tr></table>



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
 
Besides,

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Sheridan's already done more than could be expected from one man. Saving a few more billions of people like that would make him far too God-like, and I doubt that's a good idea, story wise.

And if something like this had happened, it should surely have been mentioned in Deconstruction of Falling Stars, in the panel bit where they were discussing Sheridan.
</font></td></tr></table>

Interesting thought, though.
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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 
And the waters would've gotten quite muddy by the last episode of Season 1, when Gideon discovered what Earthforce was up to, the secret of the Mages' tech, and the real reason he was accompanying them on their mission.



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"Draal gave Zathras list of things not to say.
This was one. No.... *tsk tsk*
No. Not good.
Not supposed to mention... "one", or... THE one.
Hmmmm.
You never heard that."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:


<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> someone would have to Tell them the Technomages have the organelles.

Then, they'd have to Find a hiding place that was carefully chosen and hidden in such a way that even the Shadows couldn't find it.
</font></td></tr></table>

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> maybe the organelles being able to cure the plague is why the Mages are so adamant that they NOT be found... </font></td></tr></table>


thats a lot o' spoilers...

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Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it.

" The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate for the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise to the occasion. We can not escape history. We will be remembered, in spite of ourselves. The fiery trial through which we pass will light us down in honor or dishonor, to the last generation. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose our last best hope."
 
I think it is difficult to get into this discussion if you haven't read the Centauri trilogy and the Technomage trilogy. Although we are never told exactly how the plague was cured, JMS has said that it is only a way of introducing Crusade, and the real story is quite different.

I am inclined to agree with the idea that

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>We know that Earth had acquired some Shadow technology and since the plague is also Shadow technology, the means to cure it will be found there. </font></td></tr></table>

Also the timeline isn't consistent with the Technomages being involved because the trilogy ends at least five years before A Call to Arms.

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I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
 
Instead of trying to guess what the story would have lead to, I would, for a change, try another approach. I would try to guess what JMS might have imagined, what courses of action he could have foreseen for fighting the Shadow plague.

I would approach this question from the aspect of theoretical biology and nanotechnology. My knowledge of the possibilities of these sciences is limited, but I can imagine a bit. The following are all guesses.

1. What is the Shadow plague?

Most probably a swarm of nanomachines, built intricately enough to be considered artificial life. They feed on their environment to obtain energy, they reproduce to maintain their numbers and they mutate to find new ways of existing.

2. What is its purpose?

It does what the Shadows wanted. What would they want? I suspect that besides being a weapon, it is also a tool and an instrument of research.

It maps the strengths, weaknesses and peculiarities of an ecosystem. It learns how to exploit the system, how to change it and (if necessary) destroy it. As the experiments it undertakes are quite random, it causes some degree of destruction in its learning phase.

What will it do after reaching a critical mass of knowledge? There are many possibilities. I suspect that it listens for directions from its masters. As there are no Shadows around to direct it, it might choose the most primitive course and simply destroy.

Or it might randomly destabilize the ecosystem, create forced evolution. While doing this, it would still try to listen to the Shadows, to find out what they want to do with this planet.

3. How does it work?

The nanomachines extract energy and matter from their substrate. They learn to live by processing materials via chemical or even nuclear reactions. They learn to feed on living beings, either as symbiotes or parasites. Perhaps they even learn photosynthesis.

They evolve and spread at a greatly accelerated pace, eventually reaching every habitat. They also communicate with each other, exchanging "tips and tricks" for better survival and influence over the environment.

While doing this, they learn skills which the Shadows might want them to use.

4. How to cure it?

You can not make an ecosystem immune against such an advanced intruder. It must be stopped in one way or another. How?

4.A. Destroy it.

The principle is simple: like can fight like. Get a similar breed of nanomachines and let them fight, consume, oppose and resist the Shaodow-built ones. The Shadow plague will of course realize that it is being attacked.

How will it react? It may pull back to study its opponent, grow stronger from experience and overcome the attack. It may turn its attention away from the ecosystem and focus on the attacking machines/creatures. Damage to people, plants and animals might stop for a while. It might seem defeated while in fact, it is only learning to fight better. After defeating the cure, it would come back and be stronger.

4.B. Emulate a command from the Shadows.

It would be natural for them to want some influence over their creation. They would want the options of stopping or redirecting it. The additional programming would probably not come as a signal. It would be delivered as an new breed of nanomachines. Their structure and presence would tell the original intruders how to change their behaviour.

This approach has a rather tricky side: you would have to know exactly which command you are delivering. As there are no Shadows around to teach you, you might give the wrong command.

Instead of giving the command "sleep forever" you might give the command "sleep ten years, then destroy all sentient life". You might accidentally tell it to stop all volcanic activity, to get rid of oceans, to create an ice age, to make deserts become forests, to make people live 500 or 25 years... whatever.

To fight a Shaodow plague which the Drakh have simply dumped in good hope may be relatively easy. If it's a random agent of chaos, it may give enough time to study it. If the commands given by the Drakh were weak, it might be easy to neutralize them.

But to fight a Shadow plague which has gathered experience and then received a correct but destructive command may be much, much worse.

Giving the wrong command might too produce the effect of an apparent cure. The plague would refocus its efforts and cease bothering you for a while. Until it is ready to carry out its task. After it has become ready, everything would depend on the command. It might do nothing, great good or great harm.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited January 04, 2002).]
 
Damn, Lennier. Those are good points. I hadn't thought of sending them the wrong signal.


<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> i had figured that the cure might be related to how Galen stopped the Mage Virus (take out the control center).
</font></td></tr></table>



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Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it.

" The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate for the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise to the occasion. We can not escape history. We will be remembered, in spite of ourselves. The fiery trial through which we pass will light us down in honor or dishonor, to the last generation. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose our last best hope."
 
Conclusions for my rambling: I think that it was cured by either:

1. Fighting it with a similar kind of nanomachines.

They must have been up to the task of defeating something built by the Shadows. Nothing built by the Humans can do this. Neither would the Centauri or Minbari be of assistance. Even the technomages might remain clueless. It would have to be either Vorlon or other First One technology.

2. By figuring out how to tell it to do nothing.

After several attempts and possibly several wrong commands, somebody would have figured out how to tell it to sleep, to do nothing or to destroy itself.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited January 04, 2002).]
 
Or for the virus to go to sleep for a few years.

Pity sleeping machines can wake up.

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Andrew Swallow
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> After several attempts and possibly several wrong commands, somebody would have figured out how to tell it to sleep <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh no, this is getting way too ST:TNG. Isn't that exactly how Data stopped the Borg in "The best of both worlds" ??

Just goes to show that if you start doing SF by committee, sooner or later you always end up with Star Trek.

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DaveC
"Want to talk socks?"
 
If the Shadow plague would have been something meant to destroy, it would have done exactly that -- without waiting. The Shadows knew enough about destruction to make it work in a week, no matter what planet or species.

The fact that it did not blindly destroy suggests that this was not the goal. If the Drakh tried to make it an agent of destruction, they obviously failed (and their intent was indeed destruction, which was more than confirmed by bringing a planetkiller).

It leads to the rather logical suspicion that it was not a weapon, but a tool which can be used as a weapon.

Such a tool could have many possible uses. It would have to be directed or controlled somehow. The interface for controlling it would be carefully hidden and the commands unknown, but it would have a back door through which the Shadows could direct it.

Therefore, if the initial assumption that it was more than a weapon is correct, the conclusion that it would be programmable is quite probable.

Nothing to do with Star Trek, simply logic. I am unfamiliar with the TNG episode you mentioned, but you don't need a committee to use the concept of programmable nanomachines. You just need to know what they could theoretically do.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited January 09, 2002).]
 
The idea that the Plague is Programmable was introduced in Crusade itself. It didn't come from any Trek episode.

The supposition introduced in the episode was that there is a "master" program somewhere using the plague to Analyze, not only Humanity, but every single form of life on the planet.

Only when the analysis is complete is the plague expected to kill. But, at that point, it is expected to Kill Everything, not just humans.

Another of the points Crusade made was that there was evidence other worlds had been wiped out by the plague in previous Shadow wars.

The idea that the plague is lethal isn't in much dispute.
We just don't know what Other purposes it had for the Shadows.
Data gathering was pretty obvious.
We just don't know Why the Shadows wanted to keep data about a world they had deliberately destroyed.



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
 
Eventually turning to destruction might just be a safety measure. To ensure nobody would have time to crack it.

The course of events intended by the Shadows would have involved them interfering -- and deciding what the plague must do.

Or they might have seen its final course as a test. It would cause a great degree of disruption. If the ecosystem would survive, it would have to be a good one, deserving further interest.

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"We are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
Unfortunately we as software lack any coherent documentation."
-- Delenn
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Nothing to do with Star Trek, simply logic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> The idea that the Plague is Programmable was introduced in Crusade itself. It didn't come from any Trek episode. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry guys, my comment was intended to be tongue in cheek, and not taken quite that seriously.

FYI - In the Trek episode in question Data hooks himself into the Borg's collective consciousness in a bid to find a way to rescue Picard and prevent the Enterprise being blown beyond the rim by the Borg cube holding him.

He ultimately decides to place a command into the collective telling them all to go to sleep. It works !!

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DaveC
"Want to talk socks?"
 

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