teep v techno

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I always figured that the technomage's tech started out as shadow tech but then branched off.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, you have to distinguish between the tech they use, and the tech that is part of them.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>The tech they use is just all the highest technology they discovered & invented in their 1000 year history. No ShadowTech there, just highly advanced systems with a bit of "magic" flair in their application.
The tech that's part of them is supplied by the Shadows per Drakh courier, and faar beyond their understanding. They couldn't modify it if they wanted to. And after the Shadows are gone, there's no way they'll get more (unless a certain writer thinks of something special in the third TM book... I don't believe so, since the trilogy is subtitled "The Passing of the Techno-Mages"...)</font></td></tr></table>

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"ShadowScout"
Roman Alexander

"Go on, watch out for Shadows - we'll watch you right back!"

What do you want?
ShadowShips!

[This message has been edited by ShadowScout (edited September 17, 2001).]

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> There are cloister (newly inserted) techno-mages in the second Centauri book. </font></td></tr></table>



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Andrew Swallow

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AndrewSwallow:


<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> There are cloister (newly inserted) techno-mages in the second Centauri book. </font></td></tr></table>

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> One of the cloister (newly inserted) techno-mages in the second Centauri book, Kane, is also mentioned in book 1 and/or 2 of the Technomage trilogy. </font></td></tr></table>






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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for the new series
"Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2, 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mondo Londo:

Originally posted by Jomar:
I don't remember anything about teeps disliking Shadow technology. I do recall Anna Sheridan definitely didn't like the Vorlon technology in the White Star.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure I catch the correspondence between teeps and Anna Sheridan.

Click to expand...

I don't think it was meant as a "Teep" type thing, more that Anna Sheridan was so "touched" by the Shadows. Certainly more than most humans were.

Shadows instinctly know and dislike Vorlon technology, Vorlon things, hell Vorlons in general.

Wouldn't you agree?



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Colleen L. Stanford
Gideon's Mine, all Mine
(he just doesn't know it yet, LOL)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KoshN:
What makes you think the Excalibur's sensors are better than those on a Whitestar?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because it is. It's bigger, it's better, it's more top of the line than the Whitestar. It has better fire power than the Whitestar fleet even with it's minute reload annoyance.

Remember Earth had the ability (although not necessarily the knowledge) of both Vorlon and Shadow tech.

It stands to reason that Excalibur would have been a better ship.

What makes you think it isn't?




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Colleen L. Stanford
Gideon's Mine, all Mine
(he just doesn't know it yet, LOL)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GideonsMine:
Because it is. It's bigger, it's better, it's more top of the line than the Whitestar. It has better fire power than the Whitestar fleet even with it's minute reload annoyance.

Remember Earth had the ability (although not necessarily the knowledge) of both Vorlon and Shadow tech.

It stands to reason that Excalibur would have been a better ship.

What makes you think it isn't?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No Vorlon Defense System (self-healing bio-organic armor) on the Victory Class, like they have on the Whitestar Class.

No holographic main display on the Victory Class, like they have on the Sharlin Warcruiser or Whitestar.

Accuracy of the Main Gun on the Victory Class seems to be lacking, and the targeting appears to be really crude. The whole calling out of ## by ## by ##, in A Call to Arms, strikes me as really lame, and cumbersome.

I'm not saying that the Victory Class isn't good. I'm just saying it has some rather glaring deficiencies. Also, I severely doubt that ANY Shadowtech was built into it, and that's a GOOD thing.

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KoshN
----------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for the new series
"Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2, 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

the victory and the excalibur were built by the Interstellar Alliance, were they not? hence sheridan and garibaldi inspecting them in ACTA. so i'd say it's definitely a safe bet there's no shadow tech incorporated into them.

also, they're only prototype ships. probably built to shake out any bugs before they try to build an entire class of them, so i would assume there would be many more problems with the excalibur than with the whitestars, simply because it's extremely advanced technology that they're not used to playing with. they can only put so much new stuff into the ships, since it takes time and money to figure out how the new tech works and then how to incorporate it into the tech they're used to working with.

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-dief, the scholar
Hail Booji!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GideonsMine:
What makes you think it isn't?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Drakh weren't trained in how to use the death cloud though. Which is why they had to test the thing. You'll note the lack of cold which all younger race ships suffered from, also the ships power would be drained, leaving thrust at a minimum and no weapons available. Otherwise they would have just shot the missile down instead of a suicide run, those things are kinda hard to miss considering their size. Also the Shadows death cloud lacked structure, we see the missles simply appear in the cloud from S4. Yet the probe had just passed through the cloud and encountered no structure from which the missile would come from. Since there were some 8,000 younger race ships within the cloud, you'd think they'd note the structure or at least suffer one crash. Think of fighters from those ships as well. We also see from ACTA that once you're within the cloud you can plainly see the structure yet we did not see this from the probe in S4, nor the YR fleet. So obviously they were lacking in ability to use the cloud to it's fullest extent, meaning sensor stealth may not have been engaged making it easier for them to detect the structure.



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BETH: "Well all I did was go for a really long walk."
JIMMY: "Where'd you go?"
BETH: "I don't know... I mean... all over the city, I guess... and then somehow I ended up standing outside Bill's apartment building and... I wanted to make sure he was... really gone, you know... so I figured out which window was his and then I just started yelling, you know, "BILL, HEY BILL!!!"
JIMMY: "And then what happened?"
BETH: "Well, finally someone opened their window and yelled down, "Shut the hell up you crazy bitch!"
JOE: "That's just what Bill would've done."
BETH: "Yeah, and that just made me think... his spirit lives on in others." - Newsradio

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dief:
the victory and the excalibur were built by the Interstellar Alliance, were they not? hence sheridan and garibaldi inspecting them in ACTA. so i'd say it's definitely a safe bet there's no shadow tech incorporated into them.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Potential Story Idea hidden

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> Well they're doing more high level inspecting so stuff could get by them. Drake might have been able to get some Shadowtech built into the Excalibur, but Galen would probably be able to detect it (per the Technomage book 1 & 2).</font></td></tr></table>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
also, they're only prototype ships. probably built to shake out any bugs before they try to build an entire class of them, so i would assume there would be many more problems with the excalibur than with the whitestars, simply because it's extremely advanced technology that they're not used to playing with.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True. The whitestars are production models in which everything has been ironed out.
Potential Story Idea hidden

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>I wonder how many things on the Excalibur are just not wired up, since they took it out before it was really ready. There might be a few things on board (both good and bad) that just aren't functional yet.</font></td></tr></table>




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KoshN
----------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for the new series
"Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2, 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>in The Shadoiw Within by Jeanne Cavelos when some shadow tech was sent to psi corp headquarters, it blew the mind of the teep who touched it... just fried his brain completely! perhaps that is why shadwo tech makes teeps nervous.

maybe matheson has no aversion to galen cause galens just so darned cute</font></td></tr></table>



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"I can appreciate dramatic irony as much as the next person, but this is pushing it a bit."--Max eilerson

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alexthecat:


<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>in The Shadoiw Within by Jeanne Cavelos when some shadow tech was sent to psi corp headquarters, it blew the mind of the teep who touched it... just fried his brain completely! perhaps that is why shadwo tech makes teeps nervous.</font></td></tr></table>


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>That was a Telepath Bomb (power varies in proportion to the power of the teep scanning it) made by the Shadows for the sole purpose of destroying Teeps which are a Vorlon weapon, after all.</font></td></tr></table>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
maybe matheson has no aversion to galen cause galens just so darned cute
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

or maybe Matheson has accepted Galen on his own merits

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>and doesn't know of Galen's implanted shadowtech</font></td></tr></table>

because he's deliberately trying not to scan anyone.


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KoshN
----------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for the new series
"Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2, 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/


[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited September 21, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> or maybe Matheson has accepted Galen on his own merits

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>
and doesn't know of Galen's implanted shadowtech
</font></td></tr></table>

because he's deliberately trying not to scan anyone.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>
If so, there is going to be a few fireworks when Matherson finds out.

</font></td></tr></table>



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Andrew Swallow

As a note, and more of a guess by observation,

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Galen seems to project his 'magic', his ship is a shell, with an implant, but mostly just a way to get from point a to point b without suffering the pain and death of a vacuum. If I remember correctly, his scanning ability is better than the scan of the Excalibur. In the script from one of the unfilmed episode he detected the micro bombs, (CGI would have showed his pov. </font></td></tr></table>

Note, I have not read the books due to time, kids, wife, job, college, house repairs.....

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You may find this of interest.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>

Hi. SPOILERS FOR BOOK 2 BELOW.


Andrew wrote:
"Is Galen's ship made from Shadow technology? This was triggered by the lack of reaction from telepath Matheson to Galen The Vorlons made telepaths very sensitive to Shadow Technology, so the Galen's implants and ship should have sounded every alarm in Matheson's head."

The way I set it up, the mage ships themselves are not made from Shadow tech. They are made by the mages, using the mages' own very advanced knowledge. A piece of chrysalis (which *is* Shadow tech) is then incorporated into the ship, so someone who could sense Shadow tech might sense this piece of chrysalis, though it is small. Similarly, the tech in the mages' bodies is made up of very thin threads.

I'm embarrassed to say I don't recall where it was established that telepaths could sense Shadow tech. I know telepaths can sense Shadows, from that great episode where Talia and Morden pass each other in the hall. Where was it established that they could sense Shadow tech, and how sensitive is that ability? I think maybe Lyta could--though she's special--and I guess Ivonova sensed something in that short story Joe wrote (which I heard about but never read), but I think that's when she was surrounded by the hybrid Shadow ship. . . ?

Clearly if Matheson senses anything from Galen, it's so low-level that he doesn't even realize he's sensing it. So either the tech used by the mages is too low in energy (particularly when Galen isn't casting any big spell), or is masked by his body (or his ship), or is a subcateogry of Shadow tech that somehow doesn't trigger telepathic senses, or Matheson has got his power closed down, as he should (or there's some other explanation I'm not mentioning).

I'd say the Vorlons' ability to detect Shadow tech is imperfect (since I assume Shadow tech and Vorlon tech are about equal; otherwise this conflict between them wouldn't last long), and if that's the case, then a telepath's ability to detect Shadow tech would be even more imperfect. (After all, their telepathic ability is pretty imperfect--they aren't all P12s--and that's their main function).

We also don't know exactly what the telepaths are sensing, if anything, when they come near Shadow tech. If we've only seen telepaths react to Shadow *ships*, then it may be something given off by the skin or hull of the ship that they're reacting to, and neither Galen nor his ship have that type of skin/hull. Another possibility is that they're sensing what's been called "mage energy" in the trilogy, which radiates with the same frequencies as Shadow tech energy. If so, then I'd think the mage energy just isn't of high enough intensity for telepaths to sense. After all, this isn't what telepaths have been created to do. They've been created to sense thoughts, however they do that. Perhaps through that sense they get a slight bleed-through of this Shadow tech energy, maybe feeling a bit nervous without knowing why.

Andrew, feel free to pass this on to the b5lr group if you think it's helpful. I didn't even know a discussion group existed over there. I'll check it out if I have a minute.

{snip}

Jeanne
jcavelos@sff.net http://www.sff.net/people/jcavelos

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


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Andrew Swallow

Matheson's only a P6.

Ivanova was a P-0.5 (if that), but she was physically in contact with her ship 24 hours per day (in Hidden Agendas). Physical contact intensifies the reaction.

Lyta was a P-infinity who had Vorlon programming that could have been activated via her normal senses when she encountered a piece of Shadowtech. Just seeing the Shadow Egg (control devices Lyta and Franklin found on the Drazi homeworld), could have triggered her programming.

Maybe if Matheson shook hands with Galen, he'd sense something, but we've never seen Matheson have physical contact with Galen. I suspect he's actually avoiding physical contact so he doesn't accidentally violate the new telepath rules.

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

Babylon 5 - Crusade marathon 10/8/2001 7AM-8PM on Sci-Fi

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

I don't think Victory Class destroyers have too much extra scanning capability. It was Sheridan's military cunning that resolved the death cloud scan, he fired the weaponry on a low power at as wide an angle as possible, hoping that the deflection off any solid matter from the beams of light, would show up on the Excalibur's scanners. Thankfully it worked.

Drake may not have put shadowtech in Excalibur and Victory, but he probably didn't work as hard as he could have. The Victory Class vessel may have had far more potential technologically and operationally had the research and development not been corrupted.

I had heard rumours the Victory class was supposed to have bio-armour eventually.

Incidentally, will Minbar and Earth now start coating their own fleets in bio-armour now they have gained access to the tech, or have they agreed on some form of treaty that restricts it's use to ISA fleet ships?

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"We Live for the One. We die for the One!"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Incidentally, will Minbar and Earth now start coating their own fleets in bio-armour now they have gained access to the tech, or have they agreed on some form of treaty that restricts it's use to ISA fleet ships? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't beleive that such a treaty exists, simply because one of the tenents of the ISA is sharing of information and technology. For example, the ISA agreed, as a condition of Earth's membership, to share artificial gravity technology with the Earth Alliance. That's a fairly substantial consession. My guess is that once the rest of the Alliance Membership finds out that non-first-ones can build such things, they will clamor for their share.


"Three men can keep a secret... if two of them are dead" -- Benjamin Franklin

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The Corps is Mother; The Corps is Father

I wonder if the Minbari can actually make bio-armour. The Whitestar armour could have been made by the Vorlons and simply fitted by the Minbari.

This does not preclude the Minbari from running a research programme to learn how to make bio-armour. Most problems are easier when you know the answer.


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Andrew Swallow

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AndrewSwallow:
I wonder if the Minbari can actually make bio-armour. The Whitestar armour could have been made by the Vorlons and simply fitted by the Minbari.

This does not preclude the Minbari from running a research programme to learn how to make bio-armour. Most problems are easier when you know the answer.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Potential Story idea:

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Since the bio-armor is Vorlon Tech, I think it'd just have to be grown. They could cut some off an existing Whitestar, and grow it if they knew the appropriate nutrients to feed it (if that's even necessary). It might feed of the energy of the Whitestars engines, so they could just set up static versions of the engines to grow the stuff.</font></td></tr></table>



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KoshN
----------------
Vorlon Empire

Babylon 5 - Crusade marathon 10/8/2001 7AM-8PM on Sci-Fi

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Do you suppose it's possible to Bonsai a Whitestar??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Did you watch "Sleeping in Light"?

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"ShadowScout"
Roman Alexander

"Go on, watch out for Shadows - we'll watch you right back!"

What do you want?
ShadowShips!