In light of the the events in BSG doe we really want or need Caprica?

Seems a bit odd hanging about on a B5 board complaining about the pointlessness of prequels, when one of the most highly regarded parts of the show was a prequel in which we all knew the ending (In The Beginning). Likewise, we all knew the ending to the Dambusters raid before we watched the movie, and we all knew how the Apollo 13 mission panned out before watching the movie, and we all knew that Nixon had resigned over the Watergate coverup before watching All The President's Men. It didn't spoil the enjoyment of watching.

And going back to fiction, as already mentioned, we had all known that Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader for almost 20 years before the prequel trilogy was made.

Ultimately, a good prequel tells an engaging story about the hows, whys and wherefores of the story ... the ending is almost irrelevant. As JMS once said the story of World War II always ends with the allies defeating Germany, the point of films about that story is in how you get there.

Well I thought on the surface that this would good topic for discussion but apparently most seem to be in favor of Caprica or can't see any issue with a prequel series .it looked like a good topic.

Garovorkin,

Having a thread dedicated to debating the merits of Caprica is not a bad idea. We are doing what you wanted...we're debating. Just because most are not agreeing with you, doesn't mean the thread is pointless.

First let me correct you on something. You keep stating that BSG's ratings are continuously falling. This is not entirely accurate. All TV ratings have been suffering a serious decline, from cable to the big networks and they all seem shocked and can't figure out what's happening. That's because they're stupid suits and we all know the main prerequisite for getting to be a Hollywood suit is to leave your brain at the door when you come to work. Ratings are falling because people have more choices on when and where to watch than they did before and they no longer have to sit there on the night it airs in order to see it. Now if only they could figure out how to use this knowledge to their advantage they might appear semi-intelligent.

BSG's ratings actually haven't fallen that much. I've been tracking them over at Trekmovie in his weekly sci-fi wrap-up where he posts the ratings for a previous time period on all sci-fi shows and genre shows. It has been pretty steady at around 1.4 to 1.2, which is one of their highest rated shows. I just read an article where the new head of Sci-Fi talks about how they're very much aware of their niche and how much farther reaching it is than ratings may indicate. It is one of the most successful cable stations if you can believe that. Universal is very happy with it. Considering Universal owns BSG (read no middleman studio), then that makes it even more lucrative. Add to that the facts of timeshifted ratings, streaming web-viewed eps on the networks' own sites, downloaded eps (legally -- and BSG is usually in the top five most downloaded series on the web), downloaded eps (illegally), etc. and what you'll find is that BSG actually has a pretty big following. Why do you think magazines like TV Guide, ET, etc have covered it so extensively. It has worked it's way into the popular culture. Pretty much everyone knows about it and has some idea about it, some knowledge.

So given that, the idea that Caprica is based on a failing show is not true. It's based on a cult phenomenon that's actually pretty big worldwide. Also, you have to realize that Caprica will most likely not cost as much as BSG to produce. While there will clearly be some space travel from planet to planet in the colonies, most of the show will be "earthbound" and fairly inexpensive. RM is even casting great actors like he did with Olmos and McDonnell.

Another point is that Caprica isn't really about the BSG storyline. It's got a different message. It's about the advancement of technology and the morality behind it. It's about the politics behind it. You might say that BSG was about that and yes, it has those elements. But Caprica will tackle things from a completely different angle. It's not about "our creation can kill us and does" (dropping the atomic bomb), but it's about "should we do a thing just because we have the technology to do it" (creating the atomic bomb)? They really are different stories and knowing how BSG ends doesn't really affect me because it's about different people in a different time.

Look at it this way...BSG is the story of how WW2 ended from the military and political perspective. Caprica is the story of how Hitler's mother raised him and why he became a later tyrant and mass murderer. It's a moment in time about certain people, not a big-picture tale of the end of a great war. Like Alluveal says, just knowing how a story ultimately ends doesn't mean that another person's personal tale within that larger story is any less intriguing or compelling. I know what happened in WW2, know how it ended and why and where...but that didn't take away from the power of the movie Atonement, which was about 3 people's journey into that darkness in a way. But it did give me a greater understanding of the big-picture of WW2.

I hope this all makes sense to you. The BSG universe is still a very viable universe even though we may know the end. RM has stated that he will not make anything else dealing with the BSG era and really only wants to make Caprica because he feels that that moment in that universe will allow him to say something more about us and our world...he just happens to be setting it in pre-BSG times because the vehicle is already established and it works well to do it there.

After the excellent writing, acting and overall production quality in BSG, I fully expect Caprica to be great...something different with a hint of familiarity...but great non-the-less.

CE

Colonyearth fair enough. Im still skeptical on this one but we'll see.

Colonyearth one thing though , if the ratings are as strong as you have indicated, would we not talking 5th season of Galatica? At one point they were talking about a 5th season of BSG, now I know was Ron Moore decision to cut it to 4 seasons. Its a rather curious decision. As to BSG numbers Im not making this up, Ive reads stuff on the web over the past 2 years that have said BSG numbers are dwindling, maybe that might mean what I think it does,who Knows. I have serious doubts about Caprica,, I simply do not thinks it will prove to be a viable series. No arrogance here, simply an opinion and If I end up being wrong, fine, no harm done.

Maybe there isn't a 5th season of BSG because there's no more story to tell, and the Caprica series is actually the way they've decided to milk this cow instead of more BSG. Dramatically, they may have painted themselves in a corner, and they have to end it sooner rather than later.

GKarseye That might be the case.

I think ratings are an issue with Galactica, but it's probably not a cheap show to make. The Caprica show? I'm going to guess much less with the special effects, etc.

Also, I think Neilsen ratings are the has-been of our entertainment viewing. They aren't taking into consideration streaming views from websites, downloads from I-Tunes (and from other more dubious sites like torrent sites.) The thing is, most people I know watch this show, yet the ratings just don't reflect this. I think the rating system is horribly flawed. I think the demographics in which these ratings packets are sent out are usually in the higher end (age wise,) and many of those folks are probably watching something else: CSI, etc.

Just a theory.

Anyway, I'm excited if this thing is actually a go and someone also posted there might be more Razor-like movies. That would kick butt. I would enjoy that immensely. I mean, the whole point of Razor was to go back and tell about the Pegasus and what happened (we already knew,) but the journey was hella fun.

Well AFAIK (and granted I'm no expert in "the biz"), Nielson ratings are still used to price advertising, so they're still the most important thing. But if they're inaccurate- hey, it wouldn't be the first time this happened to a sci-fi show. Trek fans know that original Trek reported bad ratings, but that was right before they introduced demographic data, which revealed a much higher earning potential for the show... after it was already canceled.

I wonder if once we go digital, it will have the means to track what people are watching in some way to get a better sense of ratings?

There is also the issue that Caprica is not going to be space based, that may not play well with of the audience.

Alluveal said:

I wonder if once we go digital, it will have the means to track what people are watching in some way to get a better sense of ratings?

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Who says they don't already. Actually, though the nielsons are still how they base it for advertising, they do know what people are watching on boxes, and they know when things are played back, timeshifted, watched via "on demand" type programming. They can also track such legal sites as i-Tunes, etc., as well as DVD sales (which for BSG have been really good).

This is where I placed my argument about the fact that BSG has not lost any of its following (in fact it's most likely gained more of a following over the years). One of the key signs of this show's popularity, as I stated before, is that it has become a part of our current pop culture. As evidence you can point to its multiple appearances on mainstream magazine covers as well as such cast appearances like having the full cast do The Late Show's top 10 countdown, which was about why you should watch BSG. Shows that are hurting don't get that kind of treatment usually.

I have a friend who works for Universal and he has told me on more than one occassion that the studio is extremely proud of BSG, which also bodes well for Caprica.

Garovorkin, there isn't a 5th season of BSG because RM and DE decided they could push it that far but felt it would ultimately be better to end it at 4 seasons rather than attempt to stretch it out. That way it remained tight and didn't become tedious. RM has always stated that the show would have a limited run because the subject matter and storyline is not such that lends itself to a lengthy running series.

So while there was some discussion regarding its ratings and that they appeared to be falling back about 2 years ago (perhaps a year and a half ago), that was before the uprising regarding timeshifted ratings occurred in the industry. When timeshifted ratings were taken in to account, they realized that shows they thought were slipping badly in the ratings, weren't really. More and more people were timeshifting (recording on DVRs and watching them later). That's why shows like Heroes and Lost were renewed now 2 more times because the networks started taking day and date plus one week to account for timeshifters. BSG's audience (the same type audience that watches Heroes and Lost) are the ones doing most of the timeshifting. So ratings played no part in RM and DE's decision to wrap it up in 4 seasons. RM has actually stated that repeatedly. It was their call and they made it.

Ironically, since all the hoopla around that decision and the supposed ratings drop, BSG has become even more popular worldwide.

I think Caprica will be less expensive to produce and will give a whole new story and angle on the universe. I'm looking very much forward to it.

CE

With regard to Caprica, the Proof then will be in the show, still not being space based could be a put off to some of the BSG audience. But again I could be wrong here . If it ends up going down the Soap opera path that will might not play well with audiences either, but we will see what Ron Moore and company comes up with.

Colonyearth any ideas if they have written any additional script beyond the Caprica Telemovie?

Garovorkin said:

Colonyearth any ideas if they have written any additional script beyond the Caprica Telemovie?

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If you're referring to the 4 new BSG tv movies they've been discussing, I haven't seen anything further on those, just that they were very interested in doing them. Though I would expect some decision soon, since they have now wrapped principle photography on the series, itself, and they wanted to shoot the movies before they struck the BSG sets for good. I've been watching for any further news on them. I'll look around today and see what I can find.

CE

Just an FYI, here is the IMDB entry for Caprica:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0799862/

Two families, the Graystones and the Adamas, live together on a peaceful planet known as Caprica, where a startling breakthrough in artificial intelligence brings about unforeseen consequences. A spin-off of the Sci Fi Channel series "Battlestar Galactica" set 50 years prior to the events of that show.

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Cast includes:


Eric Stoltz as a tycoon type.

Esai Morales (as Joseph Adama) - he was the army dude in Jericho.


More info on Caprica:

SCI FI GIVES 'CAPRICA' THE GREENLIGHT
Two-Hour Backdoor Pilot for 'Battlestar Galactica' Prequel Series To Begin Production this Spring

New York, NY March 18, 2008 -- As the Peabody and Emmy-winning original series Battlestar Galactica heads into its fourth and final season, SCI FI Channel has greenlit production on Caprica, a two-hour Battlestar backdoor pilot prequel from executive producers Ronald D. Moore and David Eick. Production on Caprica is slated to begin in Vancouver this spring.

"We couldn't be more excited to see this long-anticipated project get off the ground. It's an amazing script, and, though clearly inspired by the Battlestar mythology, it is not just a pale spin-off. This is a smart, thought-provoking, emotional, and compelling character drama in its own right," said Mark Stern, Executive Vice President of Original Programming.

Set 50 years before Battlestar Galactica, Caprica follows two rival families the Greystones and the Adamas as they grow, compete, and thrive in the vibrant world of the 12 Colonies. Enmeshed in the burgeoning technology of artificial intelligence and robotics that will eventually lead to the creation of the Cylons, the two houses go toe-to-toe. Caprica will deliver all of the passion, intrigue, political backbiting, family conflict and hardcore action that always leaves Galactica fans begging for more.

"I'm thrilled with the chance to expand on the Galactica world and get deeper into the origins of the story we've been telling," said Moore. "It's also great to have a chance at doing a completely different kind of science fiction series, one that's even more character-oriented and doesn't rely on pyrotechnics to carry the story."

"While Caprica will have its own personality, it will carry on Battlestar's commitment to pushing the boundaries of the genre, and we're thrilled that SCI FI has seen fit to giving us another opportunity to tell character-driven stories in challenging ways," added Eick.

"We've assembled a true dream team to produce this exciting project," said Universal Media Studios president Katherine Pope. "Building on the brilliance of SCI FI's Battlestar Galactica, we all know Caprica will be a critical and commercial success."

Executive produced by Ronald D. Moore and David Eick (Battlestar Galactica), Caprica is co-written by Moore and Remi Aubuchon (24), and will be directed by Jeff Reiner (Friday Night Lights). Universal Media Studios will produce.

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And from Kristen at E!

Reading is fun! As part of this week's script read-through festivities, I bring you some new deets on Caprica, the spinoff of Battlestar Galactica from Ronald D. Moore and Remi Aubuchon!

Now, the script draft I have is as old as the gods themselves (OK, 2006, but still), so it may be somewhat out of date, but all the characters and storyline match up with the original Caprica storyline information we got when the pilot episode was first casting, so hopefully the essentials haven't changed too much.

What does the 110-page script say that can't be gleaned from character descriptions alone? Read on to get the dish...

What What With the What Now? Long story short, in the two-hour Caprica pilot, set 51 years before the destruction of the Twelve Colonies, computer hacker genius Zoe digitizes her identity, dies and is resurrected by her computer-hacker genius father in a somewhat mangled online format. Joseph Adams (played by Esai Morales), who is the father of Admiral Bill and grandfather of Major Lee, finds himself entangled in this mess. He's connected both legally, by way of dirty work he does for some bad guys, and emotionally, because his wife and daughter were killed in the same suicide bombing that killed Zoe. Anyway, the digital version of Zoe becomes the brain of the first Cylon (oops!), and herein our epic begins.

Living Dead Girl: Poor Zoe replicants. Such creatures are always doomed. The only doll-made-real that ever came to any good was the Velveteen Rabbit, and even that story is depressing as all get out if you read between the lines. Tip to the toymakers: Souls, like batteries, should not be included with children's playthings—they corrode inside the product and ruin everything. (And don't bother bringing up Pinocchio. Pinocchio was a little creep.)

Perfect Casting: Eric Stotlz will be beyond perfect as billionaire industrialist Daniel Graystone. A substantial man in many ways, Daniel's gravitas is largely intellectual, and only minimally moral or psychological. If Joseph Adama is the actual ancestor of Bill and Lee Adama, Daniel is some kind of spiritual ancestor to Gaius Baltar. In a similar vein, as I was following chilly, self-destructive Amanda on her path through the script, I realized I couldn't imagine anyone but Paula Malcolmson in this scenery-chewing role.

Fuzzy-Wuzzy Was a Bear: That bear's name was definitely not Ronald D. Moore. The man has knows how to draw the darkest among us, the ones most broken, the ones who, in turn, break things irreparably for others, while the world, as is its way, carries on carelessly. I always wonder, are the shadows of Galactica and Caprica cast by our post-9/11 mindset, or are they simply the natural-born black-eyed boogeyman of RDM's brain?

But TV Is the Idiot Box! Hard to believe this script is the spinoff of a remake of a '70s schlockfest based on Mormon cultural mythology. As densely written and layered as any novel, this script feels original and, most important, deeply thoughtful. Plus, all your major Frontline feature-story topics get a nod: racism, terrorism, industrial espionage, black-ops government agencies, religious fundamentalists, the perpetual panic about teen sex and, last but not least, that pesky, troublesome Internet.

Gangsters in the Family: Imagine wholesome, upstanding, well-behaved Lee Adama. Now imagine his opposite number: vengeful, criminal, dangerous. There you have Joseph Adams' brother Sam. (Yes, Sam Adams. No wonder the family changed their name back to Adama.) Seriously, I have a crush on Sam already. He's the type who knows the difference between right and wrong, and does wrong anyway, which makes it all the more significant for him and his enemies. And cooler. It also makes it really cool.

Not to Put Too Fine a Point on It (Say I'm the Only Bee in Your Bonnet): A message, I suspect, can be found embedded in this statement by one Agent Duram, a fed who is investigating the suicide bombing: "It doesn't concern you that there's a proven link between worship of a single god and an absolutist view of the universe? A belief that right and wrong are determined solely by a single all-knowing, all-powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned? A god in whose name the most horrendous crimes can be sanctioned without appeal?"

Dollhouse and Fringe and Caprica—we are truly in a golden age of sci-fi storytelling. Does Caprica sound like it might be up your alley, or are you just holding out for those three additional Battlestar movies? Post your thoughts in the comments.

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Yeah, the sky is really falling on top of me on this topic (LOL). I did get one wish though, it did foster some really interesting comments and discussions. So it didn't go the way I thought it would, Oh well, it was fun seeing all the opinions. Again ,it will be interesting to see how this all plays out, whether Caprica will live up expectations or disappoint.

So with tonights mid season episode, and its planet of the apes cityscapeand dark mid season ending, and likely to be even darker ending, Are you all absolutely sure you want to see Caprica? Knowing the crying towel ending that we are going to have to endure in the last 10 or is 12 episodes? (LOL)

Ahh, I don't see a crying towel ending with this show. That last episode was supposed to be that, right? It wasn't. We'll see. I know they're capable of making that. And yes, I still want to see Caprica. It looks awesome, imho. I can't wait to see Eric Stoltz as a weasly corporate Baltar-type. Maybe we'll get to see Baltar's gramps on Geminon (or whatever backwards planet he came from.)