LOST Casting Spoiler

I'm not sure if it's supposed to all make sense yet. Mrs Faraday and Whitmore are in cahoots obviously and there may be more to their scheming than we know.

She could have at least let the kid play the goddamn piano...

GKarsEye said:

I'm not sure if it's supposed to all make sense yet. Mrs Faraday and Whitmore are in cahoots obviously and there may be more to their scheming than we know.

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Mrs F told Desmond that the Island was not finished with him yet... implying that even if she doesn't know how he gets there, she probably remembers him being there while she was on the Island herself.

I suspect with all the "Off Island" prominent players gathered in the same place, that Whidmore and/or Faraday might possibly kidnap little Charlie from the hospital while Des recovers... hoping to use him as a bargaining chip to get Desmond Island bound again.

Eloise: “Does he know what he’s talking about?”

Kate: “He thinks he does.”

I'm surprised by Locke's certainty now and the idea that Ben doesn't have a clue what's really going on. Is Locke really in tune with the island? Is Jacob a false leader? Is Locke making sure everything goes the same way again or is he trying to change the future?

I think Locke is a ghost or something... or maybe like Sheridan, resurrected for a purpose, or something like that. Or whatever Claire and Christian might be.

Since next week is the finale I really hope they're not just teasing us with this trip to Jacob and actually show us who or what he is.

Kate really has become the "fly in my soup" in this show. Every time I see her, I just want the slap her. I think we all know that Sawyer and Juliet are not going to get off the island. I get that, but seeing her climb down into the submarine made me want to throw something at the television set.

God forbid Sawyer actually tries to enjoy a bit of happiness without her. Whenever she's upset with one of Jack's bad decisions (or something about him in general,) she always finds a way to slither back to Sawyer. I'm just sick of her being used as the "wrench" in someone's plan--whether that plan has to do with the Jughead nuke or Sawyer's attempt to say "good riddance" to the island and all the drama that came along with it.

She used to be an interesting character, now she's just annoying.

I'm not sure about Locke. I think the idea that he was resurrected for a purpose has merit. I also think that he may be what Christian is. After all, Christian was dead and was "revived" on the island (for whatever purpose.) Locke could just be trying to take Jacob's place. Maybe Jacob is an entity of sorts that latches onto various folks. Right now, it's on Christian. It's supposed to be Locke. I don't know. Weird.

One thing I was wondering and maybe someone could answer this.

Wasn't Locke's father the guy that Sawyer went to kill in Australia?
Furthermore, wasn't Locke's father on the island and one of "the others?"

What happened to him? I can't remember. I don't know that his presence on the island was ever explained, was it?

Locke's dad was who you thought he was... the original "mr Sawyer". Ben said Locke had to kill him in order to join the others. Locke's conscience wouldn't allow him to do this... However, using his knowledge of Sawyer's connection... He manipulated Sawyer into killing his dad in the hold of The Black Rock .

Thanks Galahad. You rock. I remember that now (vaguely.) Very archetypal--killing the patriarchal figure.

Yet, was it ever explained how Locke's father knew "the others?" Or was he brought to the island strictly for the purpose of Locke's initiation/proving of oneself?

Alluveal said:

Thanks Galahad. You rock. I remember that now (vaguely.) Very archetypal--killing the patriarchal figure.

Yet, was it ever explained how Locke's father knew "the others?" Or was he brought to the island strictly for the purpose of Locke's initiation/proving of oneself?

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This is where Ben's description of the island as a "Magic Box, that you can pull anything out of" came from. However, IIRC, Locke's dad mentioned his last memory before waking up on the island was a car accident. So, it seems Ben's agents caused a car accident, and kidnapped him (or snatched his corpse to be revived on the island, which shows Ben's lie when he told Locke he wasn't sure if he'd revive from his own hanging)

It was all to do with what Ben referred to as his "magical box" that could summon anything you could think of... But I suspect that was him playing mind games again. It really wouldn't surprise me if all the paternal figures we have seen this far, turn out to have been others. All of them drink McCutcheom Whisky... Which I find a little curious.

BOOM!

No doubt.

Jacob must not have been too worried about dying considering how he taunted Ben like that. Really odd.

What I am wondering, is who is the other guy that was back on the beach looking at the Black Rock with Jacob. Is that the person who was "possessing" Jack's Dad and now Locke? I guess we never caught his name.

Recoil said:

No doubt.

Jacob must not have been too worried about dying considering how he taunted Ben like that. Really odd.

What I am wondering, is who is the other guy that was back on the beach looking at the Black Rock with Jacob. Is that the person who was "possessing" Jack's Dad and now Locke? I guess we never caught his name.

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Jacob is the white pieces, the other guy is the black pieces (Claire's dream where had one black eye and one white eye, backgammon, etc). Hanso has been many clues in the peripheral media like the games on the internet. Is this where Hanso finally actually enters the picture.

Damn cable went about for about 2 minutes right when Jacob told Locke he found a loop hole, and came back with Jacob telling Ben he had a choice. What did I miss in between?

Neat way to end the season, with the LOST logo inverted (As JMS was so fond of saying, the tables are all flipped over now)

Sindatur said:

Jacob is the white pieces, the other guy is the black pieces (Claire's dream where had one black eye and one white eye, backgammon, etc). Hanso has been many clues in the peripheral media like the games on the internet. Is this where Hanso finally actually enters the picture.

Damn cable went about for about 2 minutes right when Jacob told Locke he found a loop hole, and came back with Jacob telling Ben he had a choice. What did I miss in between?

Neat way to end the season, with the LOST logo inverted (As JMS was so fond of saying, the tables are all flipped over now)

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Are you serious? Ben stabbed Jacob in the chest. Jacob, spitting blood, said "They're coming" and not-Locke kicked him into the fire, where he ignited quicky. Jack dropped the nuke down the hole and nothing happened. The "Incident" began and the SWAN site became electromagnetized pulling metal debris down the shaft. Some chains flew through the air and hit Juliet waist-high, entangling her and pulling her into the shaft. Sawyer and Kate tried to hold on to her but down she went and Sawyer let out strangled man-cry as the entire drill structure is pulled down the shaft. Remarkably, we go to the bottom of the shaft and there is Juliet, not crushed to a pulp by everything that followed her down, but pretty well busted up. She sees the bomb lying a few feet away, grabs a rock and start hysterially thwacking it, screaming "blow up you sonofabitch!!" until she hits it right, we fade to white....

Black letters on white background

LOST

*BOOM*

Recoil said:

No doubt.

Jacob must not have been too worried about dying considering how he taunted Ben like that. Really odd.

What I am wondering, is who is the other guy that was back on the beach looking at the Black Rock with Jacob. Is that the person who was "possessing" Jack's Dad and now Locke? I guess we never caught his name.

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Ain't no one possessing any one. Locke never came back. Like Ben said, dead is dead. Clearly, the island is in the midst of a power struggle much older than Ben vs Widmore. Jacob and his reluctant companion, possibly his brother (the name Esau has been bandied about, go look it up) have been at odds for centuries.

And "Esau" IS the smoke monster. For all of us wondering where the hell Smokie's been, well he can't be in two places at once, and he was busy impersonating Locke from the moment Ajira 316 crashed on the island. When Ben went to the temple to be judged, it didn't reveal itself until Ben became separated from Locke. Only then did it appear as Alex and tell Ben to do whatever Locke says. With Ben thoroughly convinced, it disappeared back into the holes and conveniently Locke appeared from the floor above Ben, asking what happened.

This may be ret-conning, but when Mr Eko stared down the monster several seasons ago, images of his life as a vicious murderer appeared in the smoke. He may have seemed like a good candidate to kill Jacob. When Eko stated he was no longer that man, he got squashed. Similarly, Locke stared down the monster the first time, and if the monster looked into his mind, he obviously saw a sad and gullable man searching for a purpose and easy to manipulate. Was this the writer's intent at the time, or just creative adjustments on the fly? We'll probably never know.

In the finale, they said Jacob's cabin had been abandoned for some time. Was the apparition of Jacob that said "help me" to Locke last season really Jacob or was it another impersonation? Because, he sure seemed healthy and peaceful here. I'm willing to bet that the producers would not let such a glaring inconsistency hang out there like that, but we'll have to wait and see.

So now Jacob is dead and the evil (?) is unleashed and in control. Jacob's followers have arrived at the foot of the statue and a lopsided battle is likely to ensue. How do you fight that thing? Of course, then we have the bomb. Jack picked a hell of a time to become a fanatical believer. How big was the explosion and what was the result? Even if the plane does land in Los Angeles next January, and it has to now - otherwise all of our stars are dead, the story will not be over. But if it does land, that means anybody can show up next season, except for Christian, who was dead in the first place. It's going to be very interesting to see how will be very interesting to see how it all plays out.

Yea, one thing that I think became clear to me was that the guy in black on the beach with Jacob = smokey = not-dead-Christian = not-dead-Locke

Think about all the manipulation that person did. As Christian he told Locke he had to leave the island and die to bring the others back. Really, he just wanted Locke to die so he could be in the position he is in now to have Ben kill Jacob. Also when Ben went to go to the temple to be Judged, the not-Locke wasn't around when smokey came out and spoke to Ben as Alex. not-Locke came back after smokey left.

So think about this. There was nothing special about Locke all this time. He wasn't necessarily meant to be on the island for some greater purpose. He was used and manipulated the entire time, a pawn in someone elses game, and his destiny was to die a pawn in a dusty apartment building. Give the writers credit, they did an excellent job of hiding the series chump.

I also think Smokey realized he could/would use Locke way back in Season 2 both times he looked at him and sized him up. Smokey also sized up Mr Eko and came to him as his dead brother who died on the plane (just like Christian and Locke were dead on arrival) but apparently he didnt pass the test and was killed.

EDIT: Heh, I just saw B5-Obsessed's post. Must have been typing mine as his posted. Funny to see us both have some of the same conclusions. I tend to believe that a lot of that stuff from earlier seasons WAS planned out. I think the writers had a good long term arc planned, its just in that second/third season some of the filler stuff they messed with didnt work well, which really gave the impression of no direction at all. Once an end date for the series was set, things started coming together quickly.

Most people are making the assumption that smoke monster = other guy on beach = resurrected Locke =? Christian. I'm not yet willing to jump to that conclusion with both feet and am taking a wait-and-see attitude.

Of course the key point of interest now is what exactly is the nature of the battle between Jacob and the other guy? The finale starts with them looking at a ship with sails, implying it was centuries ago. There are also tons of references to ancient Egypt, implying something even older.

When the beach intro scene ended, my first thought was Jacob = Vorlons, other guy = Shadows.

The one thing I really didn't like was Juliet's change of heart. Just felt false.

B5_Obsessed said:

Are you serious? Ben stabbed Jacob in the chest. Jacob, spitting blood, said "They're coming" and not-Locke kicked him into the fire, where he ignited quicky. Jack dropped the nuke down the hole and nothing happened. The "Incident" began and the SWAN site became electromagnetized pulling metal debris down the shaft. Some chains flew through the air and hit Juliet waist-high, entangling her and pulling her into the shaft. Sawyer and Kate tried to hold on to her but down she went and Sawyer let out strangled man-cry as the entire drill structure is pulled down the shaft. Remarkably, we go to the bottom of the shaft and there is Juliet, not crushed to a pulp by everything that followed her down, but pretty well busted up. She sees the bomb lying a few feet away, grabs a rock and start hysterially thwacking it, screaming "blow up you sonofabitch!!" until she hits it right, we fade to white....

Black letters on white background

LOST

*BOOM*

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Oh, I got all that, it was after Jacob said "Not-Locke" had found a loop hole (but, i didn't hear the explantion of that), and then it came back right before Ben stabbed Jacob. So, basically all I missed with the explanation of the loop hole, and probably a bit of Jacob and Ben.

I assume the loop hole was "not Locke" finding a way to kill Jacob finally (via getting Ben to do it). I assume "not Locke" and Jacob had a deal like the Shadows and Vorlons that they can't kill each personally. Also, it seems Jacob goaded Ben into doing the deed, which I guess I missed.

Recoil said:

EDIT: Heh, I just saw B5-Obsessed's post. Must have been typing mine as his posted. Funny to see us both have some of the same conclusions. I tend to believe that a lot of that stuff from earlier seasons WAS planned out. I think the writers had a good long term arc planned, its just in that second/third season some of the filler stuff they messed with didnt work well, which really gave the impression of no direction at all. Once an end date for the series was set, things started coming together quickly.

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I was reading your post, and I was like WTF? Dude, you're repeating everything I said! Timing is everything.

Sindatur said:

Oh, I got all that, it was after Jacob said "Not-Locke" had found a loop hole (but, i didn't hear the explantion of that), and then it came back right before Ben stabbed Jacob. So, basically all I missed with the explanation of the loop hole, and probably a bit of Jacob and Ben.

I assume the loop hole was "not Locke" finding a way to kill Jacob finally (via getting Ben to do it). I assume "not Locke" and Jacob had a deal like the Shadows and Vorlons that they can't kill each personally. Also, it seems Jacob goaded Ben into doing the deed, which I guess I missed.

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The loophoole was pretty simple. Man #2 couldn't kill Jacob, but apparently anyone else of his own free will could. What's odd is Jacob didn't even try to tell Ben he was being used.