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Old June 15th 11, 15:57   #1
HexDSL
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Legend of the rangers first time viewing.

as i said in my last post i have only recently come to watch Babylon 5 and am enjoying the experience greatly.

I have just got to The Legend of the Rangers and darn it, its a little flawed isnt it? so far everything i have seen from B5 has been very well written and acted superbly however Legend of the Rangers is not to the same standard and i was a little disappointed by it.

the basix plot was sound and i liked what it was trying to do but i have some objections to some small points

1) whats this about rangers getting in trouble for wisely leaving a battle? i don't remember any reference to this with Marcus Cole when he chose to leave a battle. it seams like an odd direction to take the seemingly well balanced and wise ranger group.

2) what the hell was all that kicking and punching to fire the ships guns about? its stupid in concept and design. there is no was floating about and punching the air is more intuitive than selecting targets on a console. it made me face palm quite readily.

3) the rangers lacked the quiet calm and innate understanding that we saw from the otehrs that where in the precious episodes. i get that they where all supposed to be a little rebellious but it didn't work for me.

its not all bad though it was a fun story and i really liked the haunted ship idea as well as the return of G'kar. was it intended to be the pilot for a series or was it always meant to be a stand alone story?


if anyone has any thoughts on this i would love to hear them
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Old June 15th 11, 17:45   #2
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Re: Legend of the rangers first time viewing.

1. Rangers aren't supposed to back down from a fight, so yea, you're pretty much supposed to fight to the death, if necessary. This is definitely a weakness fo the Rangers, that they don't believe in Strategic Withdrawl.

2. The "Windmill" weapons system. Budget apparently messed things up, and that's what we ended up with. Apparently it looked cooler on paper

Yes, this was a Pilot for a new Series that was hoped to run on SciFi Channel (Now SyFy). The Gathering (The original Babylon 5 Pilot) was pretty flawed too, so, hopefully, things would've settled much better once it went to series and got a few episodes under it's belt. Sadly, it didn't make it. Part of the failure was possibly due to 9/11 interupting NFL Football schedule, and the Superbowl(?) being delayed and airing the night of the Pilot's premiere.
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Old June 15th 11, 18:24   #3
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Re: Legend of the rangers first time viewing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HexDSL View Post
as i said in my last post i have only recently come to watch Babylon 5 and am enjoying the experience greatly.

I have just got to The Legend of the Rangers and darn it, its a little flawed isnt it? so far everything i have seen from B5 has been very well written and acted superbly however Legend of the Rangers is not to the same standard and i was a little disappointed by it.
First, let me say that this is just about the only thing in the B5 universe that I don't like to rewatch. It's tied with the Season 1 episode "Believers." Jan is much more forgiving of the Legend of the Rangers backdoor pilot/TV movie than I am.


A little flawed? It's A LOT flawed. I feel bad that this awful TV movie was Andreas' last appearance as G'Kar. I wish all traces of this TV movie could be erased or burned.


Quote:
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the basix plot was sound and i liked what it was trying to do but i have some objections to some small points

1) whats this about rangers getting in trouble for wisely leaving a battle? i don't remember any reference to this with Marcus Cole when he chose to leave a battle. it seams like an odd direction to take the seemingly well balanced and wise ranger group.
That policy of the Ranger Council, and the Ranger Council itself, is not consistent with Ranger policy of ~2258-2262, but this took place in 2265 so things may have changed. Note that the Minbari do not always act reasonably (See "Rumors, Bargains and Lies."). We didn't see Rangers much during Crusade (thanks to the SOBs at TNT.), so we don't KNOW if they were that way ~12/2266-2267.



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2) what the hell was all that kicking and punching to fire the ships guns about? its stupid in concept and design. there is no was floating about and punching the air is more intuitive than selecting targets on a console. it made me face palm quite readily.
That was a direct result of meager TV movie budget which did not support the original idea of a weapons chair. I found the method of firing seen in the TV movie to be both laughably bad and cringe-worthy. Part of the problem is that while B5 was done on a tight budget, the CGI effects, sets, prosthetics, wardrobe and props were built-up and perfected over the years, A LOT of those resources were lost, sold or destroyed (squandered by Warner Brothers, who never seemed to have much faith in anything B5.) between when Crusade went down in 1999 and when the Legend of the Rangers TV movie was made in 2001.


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3) the rangers lacked the quiet calm and innate understanding that we saw from the otehrs that where in the precious episodes. i get that they where all supposed to be a little rebellious but it didn't work for me.
Marcus would be doing several thousand RPM in his cryo-tube.



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its not all bad though it was a fun story and i really liked the haunted ship idea as well as the return of G'kar. was it intended to be the pilot for a series or was it always meant to be a stand alone story?


if anyone has any thoughts on this i would love to hear them
Like I said further up, it was a backdoor pilot/TV movie. It got KILLED in the ratings on the east coast of the USA by a football playoff game. So, The Sci-Fi Channel didn't pick it up for a TV series. However, the combination of Sci-Fi Channel cheapness and stupidity and Warner Brothers ineptness, carelessness and lack of stewardship resulted in it being truly BAD.

It fits right in with being a Sci-Fi Channel Original, and by that I mean BAD. JMS wanted to do a continuation/wrap-up of Crusade, but The Sci-Fi Channel wouldn't go for that. They wanted a new B5 universe show with a 20-something cast. So, JMS set the TV movie in 2265, so the show would lead into the A Call to Arms/Crusade years (12/2266-12/2272), which would allow him to wrap up the Crusade storyline.


It seems that where B5 and Crusade are concerned, JMS is almost ALWAYS fighting an uphill battle against impossible odds, carelessness, lack of faith, arrogance and stupidity. It's a MIRACLE that we got as much of B5 and Crusade as we did.
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Old June 15th 11, 18:47   #4
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Re: Legend of the rangers first time viewing.

The cost was a factor, but there was others as well.

Quote:
It soon became clear this single prop/set would be more difficult and time consuming to design and implement than many of the full standing sets in the show. But the concept was also an extremely difficult sell at the time, not only to the network but some of the artists and crew as well. Today of course, the idea of someone sitting in a chair and manipulating complex weapons systems is commonplace (Atlantis) but way back in the year 2000 it was thought the audience would find the scenario boring and confusing!
http://www.foundation3d.com/B5Scrolls/#Screen1_06_2
(gives me an excuse to point to one of the mirror sites that ‘scrolls is now on

I don’t know if LoTR was any more meagrely funded than any other tv movie, but based on a few of the other exec decisions surrounding it, there did seem to be a real lack of understanding of B5’s history and what the viewer may or may not have understood.

(Bolts rather than beams being the end result of some screwy thinking, which was one of the many small things that left fans feeling it wasn't B5 as such). Having a new crew doing the fx didn’t help much as virtually none of them had even heard of Babylon 5.
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Old June 15th 11, 19:34   #5
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Re: Legend of the rangers first time viewing.

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I donít know if LoTR was any more meagrely funded than any other tv movie,
It had about the same budget as every other B5 TV movie, BUT it didn't have the rich library of B5 resources that was available to every B5 movie other than The Gathering.
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Old June 15th 11, 19:42   #6
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Re: Legend of the rangers first time viewing.

i WAS trying to be delicate. now i see that its a facepalm on behalf of most the community i can say.... Weapon pod thing AND choice of actress was a MASSIVE fail and made me slam my head into my hand hard enough to need a doctor.

if it had have been the first B5 scene i had ever seen i would never have looked again.

thanks for the link to scrolls sire though.
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Old June 15th 11, 19:48   #7
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Re: Legend of the rangers first time viewing.

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1. Rangers aren't supposed to back down from a fight, so yea, you're pretty much supposed to fight to the death, if necessary.
Key Words: IF NECESSARY.


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This is definitely a weakness fo the Rangers, that they don't believe in Strategic Withdrawl.
They USED TO BE smart and interested in strategic withdrawl.
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Old June 15th 11, 20:01   #8
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Re: Legend of the rangers first time viewing.

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i WAS trying to be delicate. now i see that its a facepalm on behalf of most the community i can say.... Weapon pod thing AND choice of actress
That, too. Sirois was bad throughout the movie, but part of the problems may have been her terrible lines.


The characters of Dulann (the XO of the Liandra), Na'feel and Firell were good though.


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was a MASSIVE fail and made me slam my head into my hand hard enough to need a doctor.
It made me feel embarrassed in front of the friends I convinced to watch the movie.
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Max Eilerson: "The story of my life. I finally find a city like this, intact, deserted for ten thousand years. Probably contains hundreds of patents that I could exploit and I'm going to die. I can appreciate dramatic irony as much as the next person, but this is pushing it a bit."
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Old June 15th 11, 20:30   #9
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Re: Legend of the rangers first time viewing.

Now i have watched all of it thought, evey movie, and episode from the b5 universe all that's left now it to rewatch it from teh start. this time though i think ill do it in a different order. no matter how bad LoTR was i am not sure i could skip it next time. bad b5 is better than no b5 i suppose.

strange though, The lost tales was really great if a bit short. its strange how different in terms of quality the last two offerings could be.
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Old June 15th 11, 21:14   #10
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Re: Legend of the rangers first time viewing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HexDSL View Post
Now i have watched all of it thought, evey movie, and episode from the b5 universe all that's left now it to rewatch it from teh start. this time though i think ill do it in a different order. no matter how bad LoTR was i am not sure i could skip it next time. bad b5 is better than no b5 i suppose.

strange though, The lost tales was really great if a bit short. its strange how different in terms of quality the last two offerings could be.
You still have the following ahead of you:

Title: Book #7 The Shadow Within
Author: Cavelos, Jeanne
Timeframe: 11/2256 - 01/2257
Isbn1: 0-440-22348-2
Copyright1: April 1997
Publisher1: Dell
Isbn2: 0-345-45218-6
Copyright2: December 2002
Publisher2: DelRey

Title: Book #9 To Dream in the City of Sorrows
Author: Drennan, Kathryn M.
Timeframe: Marcus in 10/2260, recalling events of 1/2259-9/2260.
Isbn1: 0-440-22354-7
Copyright1: July 1997
Publisher1: Dell
Isbn2: 0-345-45219-4
Copyright2: July 2003
Publisher2: DelRey

Title: Dark Genesis - The Birth of the Psi Corps
Author: Keyes, J. Gregory
Timeframe: 2115-2189
Isbn1: 0-345-42715-7
Copyright1: October 1998
Publisher1: DelRey

Title: Deadly Relations - Bester Ascendant
Author: Keyes, J. Gregory
Timeframe: 2189-2258
Isbn1: 0-345-42716-5
Copyright1: March 1999
Publisher1: DelRey

Title: Final Reckoning - The Fate of Bester
Author: Keyes, J. Gregory
Timeframe: 2271-2281
Isbn1: 0-345-42717-3
Copyright1: October 1999
Publisher1: DelRey

Title: Legions of Fire - Book I - The Long Night of Centauri Prime
Author: David, Peter
Timeframe: ~10/2262-12/2266. Dates corrected to line up with A Call to Arms and Crusade.
Isbn1: 0-345-42718-1
Copyright1: December 1999
Publisher1: DelRey

Title: Legions of Fire - Book II - Armies of Light and Dark
Author: David, Peter
Timeframe: 12/14/2266-04/18/2272. Dates corrected to line up with A Call to Arms and Crusade.
Isbn1: 0-345-42719-X
Copyright1: May 2000
Publisher1: DelRey

Title: Legions of Fire - Book III - Out of the Darkness
Author: David, Peter
Timeframe: 05/14/2273-01/21/2277. Dates corrected to line up with A Call to Arms and Crusade.
Isbn1: 0-345-42720-3
ISBN-13: 978-0-345-42720-5
Copyright1: November 2000
Publisher1: DelRey

Title: The Passing of the Techno-Mages - Book I - Casting Shadows
Author: Cavelos, Jeanne
Timeframe: 11/2258-12/31/2258
Isbn1: 0-345-42721-1
Copyright1: March 2001
Publisher1: DelRey

Title: The Passing of the Techno-Mages - Book II - Summoning Light
Author: Cavelos, Jeanne
Timeframe: 1/2259-2/2259
Isbn1: 0-345-42722-X
ISBN-13: 978-0-345-42722-9
Copyright1: July 2001
Publisher1: DelRey

Title: The Passing of the Techno-Mages - Book III - Invoking Darkness
Author: Cavelos, Jeanne
Timeframe: 8/2260-2261
Isbn1: 0-345-43833-7
Copyright1: December 2001
Publisher1: DelRey


OMNIBUS EDITIONS OF THE DEL REY TRILOGIES

"The Psi Corps Trilogy"
by J. Gregory Keyes
Product Details
Hardcover: 712 pages
Publisher: Science Fiction Book Club (January 1, 1999)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0739406566
ISBN-13: 978-0739406564


"Legions of Fire"
by Peter David
Product Details
Hardcover: 733 pages
Publisher: Science Fiction Book Club; 1st edition (2000)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0739414852
ISBN-13: 978-0739414859


"The Passing Of The Techno-Mages"
by Jeanne Cavelos
Product Details
Hardcover: 874 pages
Publisher: Science Fiction BookClub; 1st edition (2002)
ISBN-10: 0739423959
ISBN-13: 978-0739423950


NOVELIZATIONS:

Title: A Call to Arms
Author: Sheckley, Robert
Timeframe: 12/2266-01/2267
Isbn1: 0-345-43155-3
Copyright1: January 1999
Publisher1: DelRey

Title: In the Beginning
Author: David, Peter
Timeframe: Events of 2245-2248, as told by Londo in 01/2277.
Isbn1: 0-345-42452-2
Copyright1: January 1998
Publisher1: DelRey

Title: Thirdspace
Author: David, Peter
Timeframe: 6/2261
Isbn1: 0-345-42454-9
Copyright1: July 1998
Publisher1: DelRey


SHORT STORIES (all out of print):

Title: The Shadow of His Thoughts
Author: Straczynski, J. M.
Timeframe: 10/2262
Ss_pub_in: Amazing Stories
Ss_issue: Summer 1999, Number 597
Ss_commnts: The Londo Story

Title: Genius Loci
Author: Straczynski, J. M.
Timeframe: 01/2263
Ss_pub_in: Amazing Stories
Ss_issue: Winter 2000, Number 599
Ss_commnts: The Lyta / G'Kar Story

Title: Space, Time, and the Incurable Romantic
Author: Straczynski, J. M.
Timeframe: 2560-2592
Ss_pub_in: Amazing Stories
Ss_issue: Summer 2000, Number 602
Ss_commnts: The Marcus / Ivanova Story

Title: Hidden Agendas
Author: Straczynski, J. M.
Timeframe: 2262
Ss_pub_in: Babylon 5/Crusade Magazine
Ss_issue: May 2000, Number 22
Ss_commnts: The Ivanova/Warlock Destroyer/Ulkesh's Vorlon
Transport/Sheridan/Lyta Story

Title: True Seeker
Author: Avery, Fiona
Timeframe: late 2269
Ss_pub_in: Babylon 5/Crusade Magazine
Ss_issue: July 2000, Number 23
Ss_commnts: The Narn Story (carries on from episode 17 "Legacies" http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/017.html )

Title: The Nautilus Coil
Author: Keyes, J. Gregory
Timeframe: 2263, or maybe even sometime in 2264
Ss_pub_in: Babylon 5/Crusade Magazine
Ss_issue: August 2000, Number 24
Ss_commnts: The Garibaldi/Lyta/Psi Corp/Vorlon story. Connects with "Dark Genesis - The Birth of the Psi Corps"
*************

ISBN-13 Online Converter
http://www.isbn.org/converterpub.asp
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"Crusade" (1999) - "War Zone"
Max Eilerson: "The story of my life. I finally find a city like this, intact, deserted for ten thousand years. Probably contains hundreds of patents that I could exploit and I'm going to die. I can appreciate dramatic irony as much as the next person, but this is pushing it a bit."
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