Best season to start watching B5

I just can't believe you listed "The Parliament of Dreams", which is the episode that really brought the arc out into the open for most viewers. We learn Centauri history, learn about Minbari mysticism and learn about a connection between two characters (though it turns out to be something other than whar we supposed) and First encounter a type of alien (and a specific species) that will play a critical role in later seasons. Of all the episodes I would not have expected to end up in an "optional, non-arc" list, this would have been very close to the top of the list.

Regards,

Joe

The relationship between the "two characters" is well shown there, but not only there, so working under the premise that someone wanted to ge through Season 1 as briefly as possible to get to the more rapid and more meaty seasons of B5, I did not weigh it as heavily due to a certain amount of redundancy about their "relationship" throughout the first season.

And as far as the Alien encounter, if I am recalling the alien you are refering to, I would have to say that alien race plays a very short lived and (save for an entertaining encounter) ensamble role in the B5 story with a certain number of other alien races..........and as such was not an "arc" requirement to be set up for, certainly an exciting encounter both times, but not really requiring this episode as a set up.

I was working under the premise of the bare minimum required to get 90+% of the B5 "arc" concepts following season 1. It is admittedly a BARE minimum, but it is the difference between 50% of season 1 and 85+% of season 1 for all the true quality of season 1 and the depth of the regular characters.

I still stand by my aseessment, but I do understand a certain amount of your dismay Joe.

Besides, the First encounter of which Joe speaks comes in "Mind War," not Parliament. But I start my converts out with "Midnight on the Firing Line" followed immediately by "Parliament." A little bit of action, a little bit of character, a little bit of drama, and a nice dose of G'Kar humor... it works.

Besides, the First encounter of which Joe speaks comes in "Mind War," not Parliament

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Er, no, it doesn't. Catherine Sakai isn't in "Mind War", for one thing. And I was speaking of a class of creatures and a specific species. There is a difference between being like one of these creatures and actually being one. Age, for one thing, and personal involvement in certain events. So I don't count the event you have in mind as a First encounter. (And, of course, this isn't really the first encounter even for the character involved - but only one person on B5 knows that for sure. )

Regards,

Joe

That's why Warner Bros. released the series on TV in the U.K. - where was a much smaller syndication market and few shows were rerun - but not in the U.S.

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You mean they released the series on VHS in the U.K., right?

Er, no, it doesn't. Catherine Sakai isn't in "Mind War", for one thing.

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Yes she is:

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/synops/006.html

Flounder and Chris:

Yes, what you said. I'm an idiot. Have pity on an old man.

Later,

Joe

Don't worry. With you back on the boards, I can just bite my tongue whenever there's something I disagree with and wait for a reply from JdM that's much better written than what I'd ever be able to clobber out of my keyboard. Then it's just an issue of correcting any mistakes, which are few and far between.
Prepare to do the heavy lifting from now on.

And without tongue in cheek: Thanks for the Call to Arms.

EDIT: P.S: (You'll edit your post, right? )

I would start with The Gathering then work your way forward through the seasons 1-4 and movies .

the characters and the writers don't really get going until the second or third (or even fourth) season of most sci-fi series and I have read that B5 is no different.

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It's not the characters or writing per say, it's the "arc" element that's weakest in the beginning simply because, well, it is the beginning.

B5 is often called a "novel for television." In a novel, the second half is thought of as "better" than the first half, because by the middle of the book you already know the characters and the conflicts come out and you're in the height of tension in the story. So why don't people just start reading from the middle of the book, or go on-line and find out which chapters to skip? No, when we decide to read a novel, we make a commitment to read the whole thing, beginning to end.

So I would suggest treating B5 as such. Very little of it is so terrible that you want to claw your eyes out, and even the worst of it can be good for a chuckle. But it's not as if you have to rush to finish it, so what the hell, just take your time and enjoy it.

Excellent post.

I would only add, with regard to the notion that other SF (and non-SF) series took "a couple of years" to work out the kinks, and find their voice and their characters. The reason they did so is that most of those shows were being improvised on the fly from week to week with different writers and no clear plan of where they were "going". Also most series are, by design, non-arc. So the characters, relationships, etc. had to stay the same from week to week regardless of what happened in a given episode. (This also facilitated running the episodes in any order the network might prefer.) Not only the actors, but the writers were discovering who the characters were, fleshing out the one or two paragraph descriptions from the series 'bible".

With B5 JMS knew the characters, having lived with them in his head for 10 years by the time the show started shooting. He tweaked them based on what he saw in the actors performances once they had a few episodes in the can, but mostly they were already there in the first shows - they had to be, because they were all going to change in one way or another, and he had to establish what they were changing from. So while there was the usual "shakedown cruise" feel to the first season in terms of production, FX, hair, makeup etc., there was much less of this than in most series and by the second half of the season the show had absolutely hit its stride. (And don't forget that the powerful season finale was shot half-way through the production schedule to allow time for the special effects to be completed.)

Regards,

Joe

Very little of it is so terrible that you want to claw your eyes out, and even the worst of it can be good for a chuckle

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Can we say "Byron"?

Some really good points being made in this thread, but frankly we are talking about stuff we all know in retrospect. Had i been given the chance to save lifespan by skipping "infec...." er, the episode JDM referred to, I would have. I cannot have that hour of lifespan back

On the other hand, there is a lot to be said for slogging one's way though even the non-JMS-written episodes of the first season, so that one gets an appreciation for good writing when it becomes more focussed in the later seasons. Further, skipping season one means missing out on the truly gob-stopping moment of the entire five years of the show (not the best in terms of CGI, but the one moment when you jump out of your chair and go "WHAT THE F... WAS THAT?") I remember how excited my girlfriend amd I were at the conclusion of this ep because we finally knew we were not in Kansas any more. If you watch it later, after you have learned to recognize what was going on, you miss all the punch. And that would be a shame.

So, like others, I say somewhat reluctantly that it is best to watch the series from the start, and to endure what must be endured (in the sure hope that your faith will be rewarded). If you lack the patience for all the eps, watch the ones 2aMageing recommends or go to the Lurker's Guide and heck out the heavy arcs ones they recommend.

Ironically, though I have seen the series many times and each ep at will since it came out on DVD, I only just a couple of weeks ago realized that there was yet another connection between events in Season one's Crysalis and thre movie In the Beginning done three-plus years later. There always is something new to discover, because the series is that deep and that well-thought-out. Ten years later, and it still surprises me.

But I agree with Doctor Gonzo that if you start to lose faith that the show will interest you, have "In the Beginning" in your hip pocket as an elixer of life. That TV movie is quite disjointed as it tries to show every major charactor in the war that occurs ten years before the premier, but the payoff is so stupendous in terms of script, acting, and music that if you finish it dry-eyed you may need professional help. It DOES spoil some things, but bettter to watch things after spoilers than give up on the series.

Just don't stop short of Sleeping in Light.

Oh, what I'd give to have my brain wiped of all knowledge of B5 so that I could experience it all over again...

A guy can dream...

I know the feeling.
As does Peter Jackson, the one that directed the Lord of the Rings movies. In the documentaries he said he wished he could be made to forget the movies and who made them, and just see them the first time as a fan and say "Ah, that was pretty good that."

I frankly can't imagine In the Beginning being of interest to a non-B5 fan. It's very talky and without having seen the first 4 season you don't get the thrill of seeing the characters in the past. My folks and sis saw some of it when I asked them to record it for me a couple of years ago and didn't understand how I could watch that boring stuff. They understood when I told them that it's only of interest to those who followed the series. My dad saw a bit of an ep recently and admitted it could be interesting, while my sis is now a fellow fan (my only successful convert).

Anecdotal evidence aside, I watched it again recently and confirmed my opinion that it would make a terrible intro to the series- not just for the spoilers but also just because it's so exposition heavy and so "let's hit all the points we have to in order to please the fans" that a first-time wouldn't, IMO, really dig it.

Yeah, I've always felt that "In the Beginning" is best reserved for later, and "Midnight on the Firing Line" is the most solid introduction -- but I still haven't seen the revamped new and improved version of "The Gathering," so maybe that works better now.

but I still haven't seen the revamped new and improved version of "The Gathering,"

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Really? Wow.

I myself am dying to see the one that was broadcast originally. I keep reading about the alien "zoo" and such but I want to see it!

I myself am dying to see the one that was broadcast originally.

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The original version was in DVD release in countries that didn't have subtitles for the new version. I bought the original "The Gathering" in a supermarket in Norway, I think. (Imagine my surprise of seeing it there), and it might have been released in Germany, I think.
A caveat here is that the director's cut version (the new one) has the old information on the cover, so that won't help you. The original version I bought had GKar on the front, while the director's cut (which I bought from a U.K. web shop) had the same front as "In the Beginning"

but I still haven't seen the revamped new and improved version of "The Gathering,"

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Really? Wow.

I myself am dying to see the one that was broadcast originally. I keep reading about the alien "zoo" and such but I want to see it!

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You don't want to miss out on the hip techno beats, too I've still got the original version on VHS.