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Marcus in Crusade?

Got this from Frederica at Code7R :cool:

Do you have any idea where anyone would have gotten the idea that Crusade was supposedly going to be merely a continuation of the stories of the B5 characters?

It's unfathomable to me. I think people just had a tendency to assume this would be the case. Or they saw a certain character and resented it, wondering "why can't that be me?" to the point where it becomes "that was SUPPOSED to be me."

Jerry Doyle was convinced that Bruce was supposed to captain the Excalibur, but that you and he had a "falling out" over his "being fired suddenly after five years," and so you quickly rewrote the role as Gideon instead.

Okay, let me put the absolute and total lie to this right now.

I've just gone back into my files and dragged out the ORIGINAL TREATMENT for Crusade, the one written while B5 was still in production, BEFORE "A Call to Arms" was ever filmed. The treatment, which was available to WB, Doug, John, and department keys and I know some cast members got their hands on it, was dated 6/16/98 (that date is still on the file datestamp).

I quote from a latter part of the treatment, where the characters are introduced. There are some little variances here and there -- one in particular that I think will surprise some people -- but this was what was written at that time...the very first time I put ANYthing down on paper about Cruade for WB.

One small caveat: I used the terms "infrequently or not at all" primarily because WB was desperate to make sure that this show was different from B5, so the "not at all" part was a nod to that, but the "infrequently" was my planned opening to use the characters from time to time, which was already in the works when the show was pulled.

Whether it begins within BABYLON 5 or outside, the CRUSADE pilot movie will start with the Drakh attack, and end with the revelation about the plague. It's important to see this happen in current time, rather than hear about it after the fact. We need to see first-hand what's at stake, and how we got here. As a result, the pilot will introduce not only our characters, but the full situation and setup for the series to come. Because of the attack and counter-attacks, it will be primarily action-oriented.

The focus is not on diplomacy, or negotiations ... the focus is nothing less than the very survival of our species, and the acts of heroism that result when our characters stand against terrible and overwhelming odds.

As head of the Rangers, Delenn and Captain John Sheridan give the fleet its mission, and take part in the pilot movie.

After that, once the battle is over and the fleet is on its way, they will appear either infrequently or not at all. CRUSADE will stand on its own, except for possible TNT movie cross-overs.

Let's meet our characters.

CAPTAIN MATTHEW DRAKE, Captain of the Excalibur, the high-tech flagship of the White Star fleet of ships. (The fleet divides into teams to help increase the odds of finding a cure; when they find a possible lead, they call in the Excalibur, wait until it arrives, then they move on to the next destination while the Excalibur does its work.) In his 30s, dark, brooding, attractive, he's a fighter whose own Earthforce ship was destroyed during the initial war with the Drakh. (It wasn't his fault, as we will learn; he was up against impossible odds and barely managed to save his crew at great risk to himself.)

Personally assigned to the Excalibur by Sheridan, this mission represents his chance to redeem himself. Hard-headed and practical, a man of action who doesn't believe in the mysticism practiced by the Minbari and the Rangers; if he can't feel it or taste it, it doesn't exist. A loner whose harsh exterior covers a heart that has been wounded too many times, and now refuses to let anyone near him.

MARCUS COLE, a Ranger established on Babylon 5 during its third and fourth seasons. Energetic, bright, literary, with a poetic quote always at hand when it's needed, and a pike or a PPG rifle when force is needed. Trained equally in martial arts and philosophy. A dashing, romantic figure noted for a cheerfulness that belies something much deeper beneath.


We had to change Drake to Gideon because of a clearance problem, and obviously the Claudia situation threw a monkey wrench into using the character of Marcus, as originally planned.

jms

And presumably Marcus would take the spot that Galen eventually had? Interesting.

No, Galen was in there as well.

jms

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The part about Marcus has me baffled. He was already "dead" at this time (6/98, I mean) and JMS had often said his death had to be permanent to have meaning in the story (not counting Space, Time, and the Incurable Romantic). His death would've led to Susan's involvement with Byron.

Now here is the ever cheerful Marcus back on the job, with no mention of previously being dead and frozen.

I suppose the one to bring him back could have been Galen, but it's just a little odd that Marcus' profile omits his little health problem.
 
Very interesting. The thought that I could have had more Marcus, <Homer>ghlaaaaaar</Homer> (That's supposed to be his drooling sound btw) :D

I do remember Jason saying somewhere that he asked jms if Marcus was dead. The answer was something like, 'If there's no fifth season, then he's dead because he might as well be. If there is a fifth season, then he's frozen.'

Remember that five years passed between B5 and Crusade, so Marcus could well be revived, possibly by Galen, and Susan would still have had five years of grief.

Whether he still came to a sticky end would be nice to know, considering SiL had also been filmed by this time.

Thanks for the info.
 
My understanding was that JMS wrote that summary before the end of Season 4, at which time the issues that led to CC leaving (and as a result, Marcus being killed off) hadn't arisen.

It wasn't until they had to write CC out that the decision was made to kill Marcus. Or so I believe.
 
How does that fit the real world time line?

*ALL* of S4 was in the can (in terms of shooting, if not post-production) before anyone, including JMS, knew that CC wasn't coming back for S5. Indeed, all of S4 was in the can (again, in terms of shooting, if not post-production) before anyone, including JMS, knew that there *would be* a S5 at all.

By all accounts, the only change that was made to S4 because of CC's departure was the voiceover by the ISN anchor at the end of Rising Star.
 
If that's correct, JMS's comments above don't really make sense. This was the only explanation I could think of for what he said.
 
*ALL* of S4 was in the can (in terms of shooting, if not post-production) before anyone, including JMS, knew that CC wasn't coming back for S5. Indeed, all of S4 was in the can (again, in terms of shooting, if not post-production) before anyone, including JMS, knew that there *would be* a S5 at all.

Yep. Exactly.

Which leads to all kinds of possibilities about Marcus.

Was his revival supposed to be a plot element at some point? During the telepath arc, perhaps? Could've made things *really* interesting...
 
But I remember having read that had Claudia remained, in season five it would have been she, not Lyta, that fell in love with Byron. And that with Byron's death, it would be yet another person to tack onto the list of Talia and Marcus that had loved her but "left" her. I remember reading that Byron's appearance was something thought went into in order to have him have a slight visual resemblance to that of Marcus; I guess it was the long hair kind of thing. Byron wouldn't have had this impact on Ivanova if Marcus hadn't given his life to save her because Marcus would have still been there for Ivanova to be interested in.

Was this document saying that Marcus would be in Crusade written back when jms still thought season four was going to be ending with "Intersections In Real Time"? I guess if it had been written with the thought that the Earth civil war arc was going to be resolved in season five, then Marcus would still have been alive in jms's mind.
 
Was his revival supposed to be a plot element at some point? During the telepath arc, perhaps? Could've made things *really* interesting...

But in that case how do you explain JMS saying:
...and obviously the Claudia situation threw a monkey wrench into using the character of Marcus, as originally planned.

It doesn't make sense if they planned to revive Marcus. The 'Claudia situation' wouldn't have affected that plot idea in any way that I can see. They could have popped him in the microwave and defrosted him any time they wanted :D
 
In his 30s, dark, brooding, attractive, he's a fighter whose own Earthforce ship was destroyed during the initial war with the Drakh. (It wasn't his fault, as we will learn; he was up against impossible odds and barely managed to save his crew at great risk to himself.)


Possible "Legend of the Rangers" Spoilers...
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This description of Gideon doesn't really fit the actor Gary Cole or the character of Matthew Gideon. I think that Gideon is in his late 30's or early 40's (about the same age as Sheridan). It fits better with Dylan Neal and his character Ranger David Martel. He was young, brooding, and lost his first ship (through no fault of his own) but saved the crew from certain death at great personal cost. I guess JMS never wastes a good idea.
 
Even though B5 is done, and even though JMS doesn't read this place, I still feel awkward posting something that could be considered a story idea. The prohibition has been too deeply burned in. :)

Nevertheless...

The 'Claudia situation' wouldn't have affected that plot idea in any way that I can see. They could have popped him in the microwave and defrosted him any time they wanted :D

If, however, the defrosting of Marcus was to be an integral part of Ivanova's "character arc" -- for instance, something done by Psi Corps to try to interfere with the Ivanova/Byron relationship -- and not actually a plot idea on its own, Claudia's departure would've made it unnecessary.

And, yes, they could've done it anyway, but it doesn't seem like the type of thing JMS would want to do offhandedly, when it wouldn't have a huge dramatic impact on some other character.

Just my opinion, of course, with nothing to really back it up except a vague feeling...
 
Even though B5 is done, and even though JMS doesn't read this place, I still feel awkward posting something that could be considered a story idea. The prohibition has been too deeply burned in. :)

Clear instance of Vorlon indoctrination.
You *must* get rid of it. :D
 
From what I remember Lyta still would have fallen in with the teeps but the physical relationship would have been Ivanova and Mr. Whinny.
 

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