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"Brit"- comment from JMS

Re: Racist comment from jms

Go to Google, then type babylon 5 in the search, then click groups, then click the link for rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated.

Or better click this link R.A.S.T.B.M
 
Re: Racist comment from jms

I would have done, if not for my ignorance at how the newsgroups work (which explains why the link in my original post refers to jmsnews.com). :eek:

You could check with your ISP about newsgroup access, but a way that's available to anybody is via Google Groups.

For the moderated newsgroup (rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated), you need to have a valid email address. The first time you post, you'll get a letter with the terms of use that you have to agree to and email back. Being a moderated group, the first several (20, iirc) posts you make will be hand moderated so I'm afraid there's an annoying lag time sometimes. Still, it's a nice group of people, generally, and I'm sure you'll recognize a few of us over there. :D

Jan
 
Re: Racist comment from jms

I'm sorry. I am a dyed-in-the-wool Brit ... and I have to defend JMS here.

We are the world champions at trashing successful people, be they artists, politicians, business "tycoons", sports men and women or whatever. We have a media that builds people up just so that they can take pleasure in knocking them down again, and jealousy about others' success appears to run rampant through just about every sector of society.

I don't think it is a class thing necessarily, but it does seem to be a peculiarly British thing.

Still ... it's nice to be World Champions at something, isn't it?

:p
 
Re: Racist comment from jms

Thanks Ark and Jan. I'm going to try and register now...fingers crossed...
 
Re: Racist comment from jms

I can understand that he may have meant this as a light-hearted comment, but when dealing with a black-and-white medium (with which you cannot verbally emphasise your intent) I believe that you should be more cautious when making such generalisations.

That's an ironic comment. The only one I see right now being "black and white" about this issue, is you.
 
Re: Racist comment from jms

I tryed to as well over at R.A.S.T.B.M

Here's what I said to Paul:
Rarely do I jump into some else fight, but I'm going to for a change,
seeing as how everyone else is.

Bro', I've read through this thread and here's my $0.02 worth.

Paul is using one poorly made comment by JMS to turn everyone who was
not on *your side* of your original posts about JMS not having the
right the sell his property for money to your side.

Frankly from where I stand you had lost that battle even before JMS
made his first reply. So your playing on other people's emotions (in
this case our British friends), to gain some assemblance of victory
over JMS.

A poor choice of words? With all do respect to JMS, I'd have to say
yes. But JMS a racist? No bloodly way.

I personally feel the worst thing JMS did to you my British friends is
kill off Marcus and replace him with Byron. Just kiddin' there JMS,
well kinda' ;-)
BTW that part that says "Paul is using one poorly made comment by JMS to turn everyone who was..." suppose to start out as "Paul you are.." not "Paul is...."

Which is more or less a repost from what I posted here, thus the typo.

Here's what Paul said in reply:
> Paul is using one poorly made comment by JMS to turn everyone who was
> not on *your side* of your original posts about JMS not having the
> right to sell his property for money to your side.

That's a difficult sentence to parse, but I am not remotely interested
in turning anyone anywhere.

JMS answered the point I wanted to make (in case anyone can't remember
in the dim and much-diluted past, it was that it would have been fairer
to raffle the items instead of sell them to the highest (and presumably
richest) individual) by saying it was none of my business. Fair enough.
Doesn't stop me having a view on it, since I don't need anyone's
permission to speak, even here in the Church of Joe.

He's got his view, I have mine. Sadly, in the expression of his view he
used racist terminology. *That* is what's being criticised now, the
original point having been asked and answered with, basically, "stuff
you".

> Frankly from where I stand you had lost that battle even before JMS
> made his first reply. So you're playing on other people's emotions
(in
> this case our British friends), to gain some semblance of victory
> over JMS.

Nope. Just calling it like it is. The dictionary agrees with me. I am
not remotely interested in "victory over JMS" since such a thing is
meaningless and of no value. I would like an apology to the British
fans he offended, or at the very least a retraction of the offending
sections of his text.

> A poor choice of words? With all due respect to JMS, I'd have to say
> yes. But JMS a racist? No bloody way.

Probably best not to use racist terms then, huh?

Paul.

Frankly I think trying to reason with him any further will be like striking at the wind. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Racist comment from jms

I can understand that he may have meant this as a light-hearted comment, but when dealing with a black-and-white medium (with which you cannot verbally emphasise your intent) I believe that you should be more cautious when making such generalisations.

That's an ironic comment. The only one I see right now being "black and white" about this issue, is you.

Can you explain this comment? Or are you just going to imply that I should not take offence and leave it at that?
 
Re: Racist comment from jms

I'm guessing here, so Recoil feel free to correct if I'm wrong. But I believe the implication is that we should think about the *pissed off* corner JMS got worked into that lead up to "the comment".

Or are you just going to imply that I should not take offence and leave it at that?

For what is worth to you at a personal level, I don't believe being *pissed off* is a justification for any action. That being said I know I've been pissed before and said things I haven't really meant, and wished I could take them. The question I think we need to ask ourselves is: "Who among us has 100% perfectly 'clean hands' when it comes to this?"
 
Re: Racist comment from jms

I personally feel the worst thing JMS did to you my British friends is kill off Marcus and replace him with Byron. ;)

Thank you for that comment. Perfectly true.

We have plenty of British idiots over here in the UK, and I have not been offended by anything JMS said, so I don't want the apology that Paul H was demanding.
 
Re: Racist comment from jms

I just posted this over at the moderated newsgroup...

jmsatb5@aol.com wrote:
> You're not making sense. Even for a Brit

I think this is an unfortunate choice of words.

I can understand that you may have meant this as a light-hearted comment, but when dealing with a black-and-white medium (with which you cannot verbally emphasise your intent) I believe that you should be more cautious when making such generalisations.

And I'm not saying this to defend Paul Harper in any way. I think his messages say more about him than anyone ever could. And I can see that trying to reason with the man is proving to be an exercise in futility.

I'll be interested to read his reply (if he posts one).
 
Re: Racist comment from jms

There is an interesting argument going on between jms and a "Paul Harper" here.

Mr Harper is quite obviously an ignorant idiot, but is jms justified in making this comment?....

You're not making sense. Even for a Brit

It sounds to me like he's trying to fight racism with racism. I'm sad to say this, but jms has lost some of my respect for making this comment.

It sounds to me like JMS is trying to fight stupidity with humor.

From the Encyclopeda Brittanica Online: The British writer George Bernard Shaw once remarked that “England and America are two countries separated by the same language.” This humorous statement is a simple way of noting that the English language is not the same everywhere it is spoken. It is a living, evolving language that attains distinctive qualities in different environments.
 
Re: Racist comment from jms

I certainly can see the "you are the one expected to act like a professional" angle if this had been spoken in, say, a literature class that JMS was teaching.

But it was made at a messageboard dedicated to him and I think we all know JMS can get a bit short-tempered with people from time to time. (He's still nothing compared to Harlan Ellison! :LOL:)

I just think back to the premise. Didn't this all start in the thread where Paul is basically bitching about the cost of some item JMS was auctioning off on Ebay? Like the man doesn't have the right (legal and moral) to sell stuff that is in his closet that he'd like to get rid of?

:rolleyes: Sorry, but I just ignored the guy after that. Why even bother?

Although it seems now I missed a lot of "fun". :devil:
 
Re: Racist comment from jms

I just think back to the premise. Didn't this all start in the thread where Paul is basically bitching about the cost of some item JMS was auctioning off on Ebay? Like the man doesn't have the right (legal and moral) to sell stuff that is in his closet that he'd like to get rid of?

Pretty much. Except that PH took the position that, by selling his own belongings, somehow JMS 'cheapened' all of B5 and that JMS had somehow sold out.

This on top of quite a number of people wondering rather obviously what JMS might be planning to do with the money and hoping loudly that a chunk would be going to charity from almost the start. They, at least, were mainly curious and meant no harm. PH, on the other hand is simply a gadfly.

Jan
 
Re: Racist comment from jms

Can you explain this comment? Or are you just going to imply that I should not take offence and leave it at that?
Our friend ARK1701 basically hit the nail on the head. But yea, I think that you shouldn't have taken offense and left it at that. That was a good analysis of my post.

My comment was that you are the one making this a "black and white" "right and wrong" issue, when clearly it isn't. The reason it isn't black and white is that while JMS is a professional, and people hold him to a higher standard, it is WRONG to hold him to a higher standard ESPECIALLY when dealing with free posting on the Internet when there are trolls-a-plenty. He is a human, no different than the rest of us, and posting in a public area just like the rest of us. I think of him as 'one of the guys' in this medium.

He has every right to make a comment that was DIRECTED at a SPECIFIC individual, not an entire population.

However people like yourself read it, and over-react.

Yes.

Over-react.

I think this is a silly conversation and a waste of everyone's time. Clearly JMS isn't racist against Brits. What's more I think you believe that he isn't. So why even get into this? It was between JMS and that other troll. There's no point in you trolling further and spreading this festering mess to other message boards.

Frankly, shame on me for even posting in this thread. I was curious to see what it was about, and thought it was a funny and silly thing to have happen. I should have laughed at everyone's over-reaction and moved on instead of posting. Oh well, too late now...
 
Re: Racist comment from jms

I'm just pissed that JMS is spending energy dicking around on the 'net with some moron instead of doing TMOS or Rangers or something.
 
Re: Racist comment from jms

I'm just pissed that JMS is spending energy dicking around on the 'net with some moron instead of doing TMOS or Rangers or something.

Having the means to do it first would be necessary, wouldn't it? JMS is a writer and TV exec producer. It's really not in his power to put deals together to finance a movie.

TMoS as a script is dead. It belongs to the person/company that optioned the movie and commissioned the script. JMS can perhaps sell copies but unless the owner of that script makes the deal or somebody buys it from him/them, it'll never be made.

Jan
 
Re: Racist comment from jms

Bester, it would have been helpful, way more meaningful, if you had posted JMS's original comment which included the phrase you object to. Taken out of context, I have no idea what he meant, and PH's "bugger-all" comment immediately after it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me. That is in part because of the British slang involved. I do know the literal meaning, but not its meaning as used by PH. Thus, with what you have given us, I see no way to have any idea what this means, or is about, so, it can not be understood, or commented on in any specific way.

Apart from the 'JMS is no racist' comments here, with which I agree, I would add that when people make disparaging comments about 'Americans,' I would never consider them "racist," unless some other part of the comment warranted it. Dispite any dictionary definitions, I think it absurd to call that comment "racist" for its use of the word "Brits."
 
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