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Old June 7th 10, 20:09   #171
Caffran
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Re: Anyone still watching Lost?

so the whole thing was just dungeons and dragons?

anything wierd happens.......a wizard did it.

the island was real.

so it REALLY could move? it REALLY could travel in time?

that makes no sense whatsoever.

we're talking alice in wonderland then? but it wasn't a dream?

thanks guys, i'm even more pissed off now. before i was annoyed because i thought i didn't understand it.

now i see i actually did understand it all along.


it was a load of bollox they just made up as they went along

six years.

six fucking years!!!
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Old June 7th 10, 20:12   #172
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Re: Anyone still watching Lost?

Oh, and the 4 toed statue had four toes, because it's a statue of Tawaret, who had 4 toes.

Tawaret was both a Guardian of Children and had something to do with guarding against evil, or holding evil in or something like that. Wikipedia her, there should be lots of info on her.
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Old June 7th 10, 20:17   #173
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Re: Anyone still watching Lost?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffran View Post
so the whole thing was just dungeons and dragons?

anything wierd happens.......a wizard did it.

the island was real.

so it REALLY could move? it REALLY could travel in time?

that makes no sense whatsoever.

we're talking alice in wonderland then? but it wasn't a dream?

thanks guys, i'm even more pissed off now. before i was annoyed because i thought i didn't understand it.

now i see i actually did understand it all along.


it was a load of bollox they just made up as they went along

six years.

six fucking years!!!
Yes, it was all a big game of Backgammon, as they showed us early in S1.
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Old June 7th 10, 20:22   #174
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Re: Anyone still watching Lost?

The force of the island was not simply "electromagnetic energy." That is what the Dharma initiative said they they detected, and intense readings of energy is a symptom of the unique properties of the island. It was these weird phenomena that Dharma was studying, and they were drilling at a spot that was giving off intense readings.

To call the light/force/whatever "electromagnetic energy" is incorrect. I have no problems making fun of a TV show but at least make fun of what was actually in the show.

No, we don't ever learn the origins of the powerful island force and who the first people were and how the chain of events started, that much is true. That's fine if that bothers you, but am I gonna learn where the first vampire/demon ever came from on Buffy? Did we learn were the Vorlons/Shadows/Lorien first came from on B5, or de we just accept that they exist? You can take any story back through time indefinitely until you get to the Big Bang.
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Old June 7th 10, 21:01   #175
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Re: Anyone still watching Lost?

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...but am I gonna learn where the first vampire/demon ever came from on Buffy?
Actually in the second episode of the first season ("The Harvest"), Giles explains how the first vampire came into existence. Earth used to be controlled by demons. As humanity spread, the demons decided to leave this dimension and travel on to others. The last demon to leave fed on a human before going, and as the human died, demon blood got into the dying human's body, and it became a vampire. From there, vampirism spread as that vampire fed on other humans and and mixed its blood with theirs as they died, thus turning them into vampires too.

But then, the Buffy universe very openly includes magic, so it's fine. They don't attempt to label their magic as science the way Lost did with it's magic island energy. If there had been some form of explanation of the island energy or very specific limitations put on the energy, maybe it could work being cloaked in "science." But really, the island energy was was just too miscellaneous to be called anything other than magic.

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Old June 7th 10, 21:49   #176
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Re: Anyone still watching Lost?

Ok, so now you've gone and gotten me to looking shit up on the Lost wiki.

So first, I looked up electromagnetism. Which linked to The Heart of the Island aka "the Source," which says...

Quote:
The Heart of the Island, also known as the Source, is the electromagnetic core of the Island. The energy radiates out from here to other parts of the island, notably in a much smaller quantities than those that exist at its source. The electromagnetism exists at the Heart in its strongest form, one that, if tampered with, had the potential to destroy the Island, and quite possibly, the entire world.
But then, there's also this.

Quote:
Mother thought the Heart of the Island to be a physical manifestation of "life, death, [and] rebirth". Humans supposedly covet the Heart because a portion of the light is inside every living thing "but they always want more". According to Mother, while humans are incapable of taking the light, their attempts to do so could "put it out. And if the light goes out here... it goes out everywhere."
The latter reads as magic, which would be fine if the show hadn't presented everything as being sciencey up until it gets around to "explaining" the "mystery" and it ends up there's no real explanation.

The nature and purpose of the island:

Quote:
According to Jacob, the island acts as a cork, holding back malevolence that would destroy the world if released. When the Man in Black made contact with the site of this suppression, the Heart of the Island, he transformed into a smoke monster that plagued the island for thousands of years. A protector guards the Heart of the Island, the source of life, death and rebirth. Despite the Heart, or possibly because of it, not all who die on the island move on - some remain, whispering. Others apparitions of unknown origin also appear, often confronting people with images from their past.

The Heart of the Island manifests itself as electromagnetism concentrated in specific sites. The Man in Black's people dug wells at these sites, and the Dharma Initiative built stations, including the Orchid, which manipulated time, and the Swan. Since at least 1977, when scientists penetrated an electromagnetic pocket, this energy has healed sickness, including cancer, paralysis, brain damage and male infertility. The immunity boost though causes pregnant women to reject their embryos in the second trimester, killing both the mother and the fetus. The electromagnetism also affects navigation, hiding the island from the outside world, drawing back those who leave the island, moving the island and even transporting travelers through time.
So, it's "life and death and rebirth" "manifest[ing] itself as electromagnetism"? Again, if they had been going around talking about magic all over the place, sure, why not. But they went on for years about how the mystery was sciencey. But it wasn't; it was magic.
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Old June 7th 10, 22:02   #177
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Re: Anyone still watching Lost?

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Originally Posted by Caffran View Post
Utterly completeley, thoroughly pissed off.

six years of my life wasted. i've a good mind to sue the bastards.

My own fault though. i knew when they 'moved the island' and the whole time travel bollox started, i knew then they didn't have a clue what the hell they were doing.

nothing relevant was explained, i'm inundated with questions as to what the hell it was all about.

i started rewatching the whole series in parallel with season six to try and see the clues from a new perspective. i got three episodes into season three when i watched the finale.

haven't watched an ep since. am now going to sell the dvd's on e-bay if anyones interested.

or use them as coasters.

so many questions....


1. what the hell IS the island? is it even an island?
2. what is the 'smoke monster'?
3. why were the dharma institute on the island?
4. how did they find it if no one can get there without jacob's invite?
5.who the hell were the others? where did they come from?
6.what the hell happened when the nuke exploded? or did it?
7. if not, why was the island sunk?
8. who built the statue and why? was it egyptian?
9. what lies in the shadow of the statue?
10.who built the temple and why? how did the people get there? they weren't the others so who the hell are they?
11. who the hell was desmond and why is he so important?
12. why was penny in the 'afterlife/purgatory/sideflash thing when to my knowledge she never ever set one foot on the island?

that's just of the top of my head sitting here now. i refuse to actually think of more because they robbed me of enough of my time already.


if any of you happen to have the answers to the above questions by all means post.

please. anyone....?
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Please tell us that you know
It's just a TV show
Please say that you can see
That really isn't me

Please tell us that you know
It's just a TV show
It's just a TV show

It's just a job we do
We love and hate it too
We crawl out of our beds
Yeah with lines inside our heads

Please, please, tell us you can see
It's not real, it's TV
It's just a TV show

Yeah, that's make-up on my face
I don't really come from outer space
Don't be alarmed now that's not a laser gun
You can change the channel if you don't think it is fun

We sit around and wait
We get home really late
We learn our lines, we hit our marks
We deal with lawyers who are sharks
We stumble home, we wash our socks
Have to clean the litterbox
It's just a TV show

It's not a real robot and that is not my dress
Don't get mad at me, I didn't cause an intergalactic mess
I'm no military commander, see the future isn't here
After working 14 hours we go out and drink some beer
It's just a TV show

Please tell us that you know
It's just a TV show
It's just a job we do
Yeah yeah yeah yeah, we watch it too

Please tell us that you know
It's just a TV show
It's just a TV show
Look, I also found it pretty lame how they built a show built on mysteries and riddles, and had none of the answers .. but don't you think you're being a bit .. dramatic? You didn't lose 6 years by watching Lost. You spent one hour a week, less than half the year, watching the show, and must have gotten *some* enjoyment out of it, or you wouldn't have watched it to the end.
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Old June 7th 10, 22:17   #178
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Re: Anyone still watching Lost?

But where did the Buffy demons come from in the first place? See all I'm saying is that you can do that with any fictional construct.

Ever since the introduction of Jacob as island protector I've accepted the idea of the island's power being magical- in a dramatic sense if not "literal," like that famous Arthur C Clarke quote.

In fact my one complaint about it is that I never got a sense of dread about what would have happened if Jacob and his followers failed. Sure they said "it would be the end of everything" or something like that but how? Why?
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Old June 7th 10, 22:53   #179
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Re: Anyone still watching Lost?

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But where did the Buffy demons come from in the first place? See all I'm saying is that you can do that with any fictional construct.
Not when the search and eventual answering of that question is presented as being the point of the story. In Lost, we were given a big mysterious island. We kept being told that the island was some big thing of importance. Everything the characters did was moving toward discovering the purpose of the island. And all along the way, it was look at this sciency thing over here, and check out that real world reference to archeological history over there, and in the end, the solution to the question of what is the island is that it's some magical cork in the bottleneck of life and death. It's just too miscellaneous.

The story of Buffy isn't about where demons come from. The story is about people growing up and coming into their own place in the world. The demons are color and flavor added for fun, but not the point. The mystery of the island was presented as the point of Lost.

Quote:
Ever since the introduction of Jacob as island protector I've accepted the idea of the island's power being magical- in a dramatic sense if not "literal," like that famous Arthur C Clarke quote.
I gave up on the show after we got seasons and seasons of sciencey this and sciencey that, and then it turned out the activation method of moving the island and causing time travel was a wooden wheel somehow embedded in glowing light. It really jumped the shark for me at that point.

For me, a good story is one that points me toward thinking about things on a grander scale. Babylon 5 did this, for example, by making me think about how we as individuals making up a society work (and fail to work) together. Ivanova's big ending monologue summed it up fine: we have to make the future and we have to take care of one another. I think that's why Battlestar Galactica and Lost disappointed me so much. Their stories had plenty of emotion, but so little substance.

What is the greater revelation of Lost? What came out of all their efforts? Life gets to continue on because a pool of illuminated water didn't drain out? It just feels so empty to me. In a way, the big mysterious energy of the island is the collected substance of everyone's soul, but to me it just kinda feels like the story itself has no soul. It's just relatively unimportant, interchangable characters running around from point-A to point-B doing this and that unimportant plot action. Why? Intitially, it was to get off the island, but the longer they were on the island, the more they kept being told that the island had to be protected? From what? From magical black cloud that lived on the island ripping up trees and pretending to be dead people. And why must the island be protected? Because if water drains out of a pool, all life will cease. Again, I just keep coming back to the word: miscellaneous. The ultimate resolution seems just so miscellaneous and whateverish.

I am glad you enjoyed it though; I really do envy that.
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Old June 8th 10, 14:50   #180
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Re: Anyone still watching Lost?

Quote:
Everything the characters did was moving toward discovering the purpose of the island.
Nuh-uh. Motivations of the characters, for the most part:

1. Don't get killed.
2. Get off the island (and for a brief period, get back to the island)
3. Protect the island

Other than that, yeah, I have no problem with calling it miscellaneous. Again, I think this comes down to expectations. No, of course Lost doesn't make me think about anything on a grander scale. There are only 3 serial TV shows I've ever seen that make me do that:

1. Star Trek
2. Babylon 5
3. The Wire

And that is why those represent the Pinnacle of All Television That Can Never Be Reached Again. The Pantheon of TV. Coming to terms with how truly special and amazing those 3 shows were allows me to enjoy nonsense like Lost, Battlestar and now Buffy.

(Breaking Bad is occupying some weird second tier at this point- it's way better than Lost, BSG or Buffy (so far) but it doesn't make me ponder the universe or society like the Pantheon)
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