Karajorma
Regular
I'm currently working my way through all the B5 interviews in the Archive of American Television. There's some stuff in there I didn't know before, especially the stuff about Paramount actively trying to kill B5.
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Archive of American Television
- Thread starter Karajorma
- Start date
Looney
Regular
Like most things it comes down to money, power, and control.
hypatia
Regular
Yea, I sometimes find myself amazed at how twisted the world of entertainment can be. It is more than just making a lot of money (though that is the first consideration, I'd think). It is more like having to destroy what you can't have. So you want to kill it so no one else can have it, either. In short, angry and childish behavior.
And JMS didn't exactly get rich from B5, did he?
And JMS didn't exactly get rich from B5, did he?
Jan
Regular
By Hollywood standards, no - especially as this was the first series he sold. But he did get payments for all of the hats he wore, from creator to exec. producer to writer. He didn't make as much as he could have since he didn't put his name on any of the scripts he had a hand in re-writing. And as we know, he sure as heck hasn't made anything in rerun residuals.
Karajorma
Regular
It's pretty sad. While I don't believe that anyone involved with writing DS9 saw JMS's work, it's pretty obvious that the executives had seen it and were directing DS9 to be more like B5. There are some pretty startling coincidences otherwise.
Jan
Regular
I know the feeling. In fact, I almost didn't watch B5 when it first came out because I was so tired of watching new shows, starting to like them a lot and then they'd disappear after a few episodes. My life might have been just a little different if I'd missed it!
hypatia
Regular
I think JMS gave the Star Trek guys a detailed overview of his vision for Babylon 5. And then, suddenly, Star Trek does its first series not set on a starship but on a space station. With Star Trek's first arc-planned storyline. And a leader who become a religious figure. And... but sadly I really liked DS9, too.
hypatia
Regular
I know the feeling. In fact, I almost didn't watch B5 when it first came out because I was so tired of watching new shows, starting to like them a lot and then they'd disappear after a few episodes. My life might have been just a little different if I'd missed it!
Wow. Yes, very different. But I think you'd have heard that it was still alive after the first couple of seasons. You were meant to see Babylon 5. :angel:
Jan
Regular
Wow. Yes, very different. But I think you'd have heard that it was still alive after the first couple of seasons. You were meant to see Babylon 5. :angel:
Yes...Yes I was! ;-) And look at you doing your Kosh impression.
Karajorma
Regular
I think JMS gave the Star Trek guys a detailed overview of his vision for Babylon 5. And then, suddenly, Star Trek does its first series not set on a starship but on a space station. With Star Trek's first arc-planned storyline. And a leader who become a religious figure. And... but sadly I really liked DS9, too.
The question is whether Rick Berman and Michael Piller saw the overview or whether the execs (who definitely had done) suggested themes which later ended up being the main ones of the show. I suspect they didn't. Despite The Dominion supposedly having conquered hundreds of planets we don't even hear about them until season 2. If the whole show had been based on JMS's ideas they'd have existed right from the start. It would only take a few comments from executives to steer the show in a more B5 direction.
"Every episode is on the station or in those tiny runabouts - Can't we give them their own starship?"
"Can't we have a big enemy for the show? You know like an enemy race that they'll fight for most the later episodes?"
Stuff like that would easily send a creative mind to make something much more like B5. I don't think you need to choose between DS9 and B5. You can like them both. But it's only fair to acknowledge that there obviously was some theft going on.
Jan
Regular
That's never been in question at all. JMS has always maintained that Berman and Pillar are honorable men who would never have countenanced stealing. He's always said that it was stearing from others who'd've had access to his material.
http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-18853
Looney
Regular
Honestly my main problem is that B5 would likely be much more respected and celebrated if DS9 had never existed. The fact that DS9 exists is something that forever tainted B5. From the fact that it kept Trek fans from giving B5 a chance back then, thereby helping to limit exposure and recognition. To the fact that it created this controversy, which seems to not matter now but is in fact the largest problem B5 ever faced and will ever face. In a perfect world DS9 would never have happened and B5 would have been the ratings hit it could have been, which means it would have had more success and a chance to grow with REAL budgets. We would likely be talking multiple movies and if the franchise had died down then there would be a definite reboot in this day and age. The reality is that even if JMS goes ahead with a feature film reboot there will be thousands of voices across the internet incorrectly describing B5 as the DS9 ripoff. :scream: So yeah, I wish DS9 never existed.
