Rewatching Babylon 5.

So, I have decided that I’m going to rewatch Babylon 5. I originally saw the pilot – “The Gathering” – when it originally broadcast. It was luck. Living on a farm in the middle of nowhere central Virginia, I grew up without cable/satellite/etc, so I only had access to like 5 broadcast channels. One day, in the middle of the day, I happened upon Babylon 5. My TV could barely tune the signal. I turned it on on the TV in my dad’s room and brought my small TV (which I mostly used for playing video games on my Nintendo) into the same room, and I tuned each to slightly different antenna positions so that when the signal faded out on one it came in on the other.

I watched “The Gathering” and was in awe. The ships, especially the Vorlon ships, were so unlike anything I had seen before. And I grew up watching Star Trek The Next Generation. But nothing prepared me for Babylon 5. The unity of story across seasons, the whole idea that a story didn’t have to end at the end of an episode, that was revelatory to me.

This will be a combination of both my thoughts on the show, having now long, long since seen the entirety of it, but also I want to try to reflect on my thoughts of having experienced these episodes in their originality. I did not get to see every episode as it aired, so there are limits to what I can say, but still. Why not experience it again. And I invite you to share with me; please comment as you feel a desire to do so.

And now, Babylon 5.

So, watching it now with a more discerning eye and ear, of course, there are some things that are cloying. Bits of acting that don’t really spark me. Areas where the performances, or the effects, or sets, or dialog aren’t as smooth as would be nice. But, I do have a certain nostalgia, so I can gloss over those moments. The scene of the drug smuggler isn’t the easiest, well flowing scene this show has ever done, but it does have character moments. Sinclair’s simple statement, “Because I gave you my word,” tells you a lot about him as a person. He’s a man for whom honor means a whole lot. He handles the situation with an attention to the possibility that someone could get hurt “in the crossfire.” He’s not a standard action hero, but he also isn’t unwilling to use force. He’s complicated. Complicated in storytelling is good.

“Oh, [another thing] ….” This is a common thing Straczynski does in dialog: have someone go to leave a room and then interrupt that leaving with an “Oh, one more thing.” Sinclair uses it with the drug dealer. It’s an example of how Straczynski, while he might be great with speeches and dialog of larger moments, the bland, boring, everyday sort of speech is often formulaic. It’s too much TV-speak and not enough actual-people-speaking style. As someone who’s written a bit here and there, dialog can be tricky, and it can take a few runs through the writing process, and it often takes a willingness to read out loud as you revise to ensure it sounds like something someone would say. JMS hits some fantastic points of dialog in this show, but not all dialog he writes is golden.

“The Gathering” gives us introductions to all (intended) characters, of course. Londo is funny but with a tragic sadness. G’Kar is fiery and looking for a re-ordering of the standard ways of the known galaxy. Delenn is cryptic but supportive. Kosh is inscrutable and foreboding. Lyta is fresh off the transport. Garibaldi is closest to a standard Hollywood action hero slash sidekick (he’s most like things we’ve seen before and expect). Carolyn, with her history with Sinclair, suggests something we haven’t seen before: an actual on-going relationship for the main character. Kyle is a hard-working doctor, but little else; though, his inclusion by nature of the actor chosen was a way of showing that Earthforce included people who weren't so American. (Despite Ivanova's being from Russia, that is something that is lost.)

Of all the characters, Takashima is one that I am most sad to have lost when the show had to renegotiate between “The Gathering” and the show proper. Knowing that she would have been the one to have shot Garibaldi in the back. Knowing that she would have been the one to have been “Control” programmed by PsiCorps to gather information and betray the others, eventually to have been revealed and removed from the story before the end of season two, with a young, dour Russian to replace her. I would have loved to have seen Takashima’s character played to its end. I love how when we first meet G’Kar, she basically is like “Deal with it,” to him. She’s strong. She carves that line and then dares you to cross. I come to this show mostly with Star Trek The Next Generation as my experience with science fiction. She’s unlike Yar, who still needed authorization from Picard or Riker to act. Takashima is authoritative. And she’s unlike Troi, who was, shall we say, squishy. She’s a bit more like Leia in Star Wars. Commanding. Sure of herself. And it would have been nice to let the character go where it was going to go. It certainly would have hurt more seeing her shoot Garibaldi than it did the nearly miscellaneous 2nd in command of security.

The story of this show is, from start to finish, very political. It recognizes that it’s hard to build something and even harder to get others to help you do it. Such a station is not easy, and it’s always on the edge of falling apart. With Star Trek at the time, there was almost always a sense of, of course it’ll end okay for everyone. Babylon 5 takes a few before it can definitively prove to you that that’s not so here, but it starts laying that thematic framing from the beginning. The politics of ambassadors, of gathering support of alien governments, of different people having different agendas, which sometimes clash with one another, it all ties together to make the on-going story tense.

Sinclair has a missing period of time in his memory. This is not resolved by the end of “The Gathering;” in fact it’s pointedly left open to tell you that the story is not over. It’s serial, not episodic. That was new for me.

I wonder what will happen next.

I so prefer the Minbari prosthetics and makeup in "The Gathering." It feels complete, more richly designed. The ears, especially, feel real, whereas in the show are blatantly a flat prosthetic. I've tried to find it but can't currently. There was a series of art pieces done to help sell the show. The one of Delenn had, then, him with blue skin and black eyes. The appearance of the character sure did change.

The lighting is also something I prefer in "The Gathering." The C&C especially is darker. They're in space. It makes sense. Limiting light where it's not necessary would save energy. And it looks nicer, giving it an in-space feeling. It's something I wish had carried over to the series.

Okay I am not going to quote everything from the first segment. I am super excited you have started this journey and I can't wait to hear your thoughts. I'm not going to lie, you are going to hit a lot of moments where the acting and dialogue skid off the tracks a bit, but they are far fewer than the moments where it all hits a grand slam.

I very much agree on Takashima. Her being Control would have resonated so much more than random guy. I think it is a flaw in the show that they tried to get away with introducing that guy only a few episodes before he turned out to be the traitor. It was also odd because he didn't seem to be established as Garibaldi's second in command. Before Garibaldi says that he got shot in the back by his own second in command in Season Two I assumed Lou Welch was second in command.

vacantlook said:

I so prefer the Minbari prosthetics and makeup in "The Gathering." It feels complete, more richly designed. The ears, especially, feel real, whereas in the show are blatantly a flat prosthetic. I've tried to find it but can't currently. There was a series of art pieces done to help sell the show. The one of Delenn had, then, him with blue skin and black eyes. The appearance of the character sure did change.

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I've watched The Gathering many times and my opinion is that the Minbari design is a little too close to the Narn design. They are almost the same shape with different skin tones. I will say that you are right about the ears. I also feel like the question of masculine/feminine figures into it. If Delenn maintained her original appearance it would have been tough to discern much being physically feminine about her. I could tell Na'Toth and other alien women were feminine, but that makeup made it very difficult to find anything feminine about Delenn appearance. I know that was a point when The Gathering was first conceived, but it wouldn't have worked moving forward in the direction they went.

vacantlook said:

The lighting is also something I prefer in "The Gathering." The C&C especially is darker. They're in space. It makes sense. Limiting light where it's not necessary would save energy. And it looks nicer, giving it an in-space feeling. It's something I wish had carried over to the series.

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I definitely agree with this sentiment. This is something that worries me about a B5 reboot. I worry that when it comes to the look of the show the money people who come on board with JMS will insist the station look a certain way, bright and according to modern SciFi equivalents, ie Star Trek. I think there are parts of the station that should be bright, like luxury hotels, Ambassadorial quarters, and all of the open areas of the central core because that is where plants need to grow. But places like C&C should return to the look of The Gathering. I love the look and feel of B5 and messing it up is one of the things I fear most about a reboot.

Midnight On The Firing Line

So there was a year between when “The Gathering” aired and when this first proper episode of the show was broadcast. There were changes. Takashima, Kyle, and Lyta were replaced with Ivanova, Franklin (who doesn’t show up in this episode but soon will), and Talia. Additional new characters are also introduced. Vir in this episode, and eventually we'll get Lennier and Na’Toth. This show really did have a large cast, and for the most part, the show is able to feel balanced in how much time is given to different characters.

In introducing two new characters – Ivanova and Talia – having them butting heads allows the plot of that interpersonal conflict to give us introductory revelations about the two of them while not feeling like an introduction.

The main plot of the episode is political, and though it’s wrapped up cleanly, it still feels like it has a certain level of weight. And there’s the little background bit about the election, but it’s referencing events that are mostly occurring well offscreen. We have to ask ourselves why is it important since it doesn’t impact anything in this episode, and that suggests it will have to be important later on. That suggestion carries with it the necessity that this show will be serial, not episodic.

We get to see a good bit of the Starfuries in this episode. I always loved the original Starfuries way more than the Thunderbolts that later start showing up in the show. I love how real the Starfuries feel. They move like they’re actually in space. It’s nice. The raiders are very much plot-of-the-week no matter when they're used in this show, but they are a reasonable trouble the people living in this world would have to deal with.

We get Londo’s prophetic dream referenced for the first time. I wonder if anyone who watched originally ever saw this and thought that it was more than flavor for the episode, that what he dreamed would indeed happen eventually. Londo’s sense of guilt over the danger his nephew is in is mournful and angry. G’Kar is angry too. He feels a absolute need for a sense of justice, but clearly goes too far for a long time. Neither one of them is right and both of them are right. In other words, they’re not clean characters; they’re complicated. Londo and G’Kar’s arguments feel deep, beyond the two of them, and long-lived. This show has history built into how characters react to circumstances and each other.

We get way more of Kosh in this than we did in “The Gathering.” He is, as Dr. Kyle said, “pretty alien.” That he is an ongoing character is exciting because a character as odd and cryptic and grandiose like him on another show would easily have only ever been a one-episode sort of thing. It’s understandable because one wants viewers/readers to be able to connect with and understand characters, and a very alien alien would need to be really odd, risking the establishment of that connection.

This episode, though it wasn’t the first filmed, works really well as a first episode. It has enough moving pieces to remain interesting, but still gives us significant character insight.

Soul Hunter

I have never liked this episode, no matter how much I try. One of the complaints I often see in discussions about the ep is the idea that it makes a statement that souls are real, which I don’t get from the show at all. While it cannot be denied that the Soul Hunter does create something with the orbs, it could easily be a technologically produced imprint of a person’s mind. In a world with telepaths, a sufficiently advanced bit of technology could do that. (We even later see something similar having been done by humans of the future in “The Deconstruction of Falling Stars” at the end of season 4.)

I like the appearance aesthetic of the Soul Hunters, but the behavior is too silly for my personal taste. I think that might have a good bit to do with my dislike of the episode. It certainly isn’t that W. Morgan Sheppard is a bad actor. I love seeing him as G’Kar’s uncle later in the show.

We get our first look at the new doctor. Steven Franklin is a big personality. Definitely different than Kyle, and that we can experience such easily recognizable differentiation after only such brief experience with each of them takes some creative writing and production skill.

Once again, we get to see actual space behavior with the Starfury going out to grab hold of the Soul Hunter’s ship. I do love that. I can imagine some people would watch it and feel like it’s not exciting because it’s a more technical form of flying a craft, but that is what makes it feel more real to me.

Delenn’s agitation makes sense given what Soul Hunters have done to the Minbari in the past, but the performance of her freaking out is a bit too heavy handed for me. I think maybe a lot of what makes it not work for me is that Delenn/the Minbari problem with the Soul Hunter has too much expository telling instead of showing. The portion of the conflict that is shown – him capturing her – feels generic to me for some reason. It’s a very personal story, but I’m not sure we know Delenn well enough at this point for it to have as strong enough of an impact as it would if we had had enough time to fall in love with her character. Compare how the threat to her feels so much weaker here than in “Comes The Inquisitor.” We do get the fact dropped that Delenn isn’t just a simple ambassador, so that the Minbari have some unrevealed invested interest in this station and in Sinclair in particular are points that are emphasized.

The short scene of Ivanvoa and Franklin giving the memorial for the Lurker who died is strong and emotional. It’s a great moment.

This is definitely not a worthless episode; there are some good parts to it, but just not enough to excite me.

I'm delighted to see you re-watching, Vacantlook, since I am re-watching myself in order to show it to my sweetheart. We are well ahead of you, however... closing in on the end of Season 3. If you catch up, I'd be happy to bring my own reflections to this thread. As it is, I've got the S3 drama too much on my mind to dive back to the (comparatively) easy-going days of S1. I'll start my own thread, though I will not go episode by episode.

That said, I've always thought "Midnight on the Firing Line" is a stellar (pun half-intended) introduction to the series. I love the fact that G'Kar and Londo's fate is established right from the start. I also love the characterizations; Ivanova's scene with Talia is amazing, and the last line ("I very much doubt it") tells you that this show will not be like the other shows...

I always loved the StarFuries, too, perhaps especially because the first season always had a variant of the show's main theme play as their "launch" music.

Born To The Purple

So, Londo “falls in love.” Does he really though? Aside from being beautiful and giving him attention when he wants praise and admiration, what does Adira bring to the table to truly be a display of a loving relationship? Given that Londo is so into Adira is the central premise of this episode’s conflict, it really needs more time than a single episode for me to really buy their relationship. Unlike with many guest characters in season one, the actor playing Adira does well with what she has. Her slaveowner, however, is generic and uninteresting.

Ivanova’s talking to her dying father is nice in theory, but Garibaldi’s tracking her spends too much time metaphorically doing boring paperwork. And the actual acting from her father and accompanying music is a bit too melodramatic. And how conveniently timed that he should die just at that moment that she called.

“What do you want, you moon-faced assassin of joy!?” Even rougher episodes can have some funny moments.

I do like the scenery for the restaurant scene, even if it doesn’t add much of anything to the story. It’s something that today’s CGI would make way easier, but I would have liked to have seen even more of the full interior of the tube of the station in this show. The show doesn’t quite hit me with the immensity of the inside of the station and how odd it would feel to be standing there and look up and see buildings and people walking around on what sort of is like a far away ceiling from your perspective.

Oh, and this is our second sighting of n’grath. I like that they were interested in giving us a non-humanoid alien, but is he really an alien or is he just a giant bug?

Infection

First episode filmed. It shows.

So, Dr Franklin’s archeology professor shows up. Dr Franklin is a medical doctor. He had an archeology professor? I guess it must have had something to do with an elective or part of the xeno- part of Franklin’s xenobiology specialization. Still, it feels awkward.

Living technology. At the time this was written, I guess the idea was more of a revolutionary one? I can’t now imagine someone in the future being surprised that a more developed species would have such tech. It does lay the groundwork for the idea though, which’ll come back with the Vorlons and Shadows.

The actual being taken over by the technology though is cringe worthy acting, as is Sinclair’s rage acting while trying to piss it off.

The music is especially silly in this episode. Part that just played reminds me of first season Buffy The Vampire Slayer’s music.

The why-we-have-to-go-to-the-stars speech at the end though is nice. Still, it’s hard to slog through the rest to get to it though.

I can see Andrei Ivanov holding on to life until Susan calls again, especially if he knows she's likely to and he has some unfinished business. The brain can have more of an influence on the body than is sometimes acknowledged. Melodramatic, yes, but sometimes reality is more melodramatic than we give it credit for.

When I showed "Infection" to my sweetheart, I warned that it was one of the worst; and was surprised when my beloved said "It's the best one I've seen so far." Yes, it's painfully rough in execution, but the general themes (the impossibility of purity, becoming what one fears, and of course the speech at the end) are actually fairly solid, and I guess those were appealing enough.

My favorite bit of Infection that's not the speech at the end: we overhear Garibaldi telling the reporter the end of a story, which years later and without any fanfare we hear the middle of: how he and Sinclair met. All we hear is "...and three days later we walked out of the desert!", all cheerfully.

Naturally the reporter didn't get the full version of the tale, with all the Shadow ship/Psi Corps stuff. But I really like that Garibaldi holds onto this little secret, while hinting at it to various characters, through the whole show. Even when he mentions seeing "some of" the Shadow vessel/Psi Corps operation, he doesn't tell the rest of the crew that it's how he and Sinclair met.

Okay you are going way faster than my current busy schedule can keep up with. Guess I will just make comments on Soul Hunter. Like most B5 plotlines I don't care for, JMS always comes up with an interesting way of dealing with it that ends up making me care for it. I have never been a fan of the "Soul" aspect, but I think it does give an added dimension to the B5 Universe. Is it really a soul in the orb or, like you said, just an "imprint of a person's mind"? And I love that Franklin points out this possibility in the episode.

I will also say that you made an interesting point when you said Londo and Adira's relationship needed more time. That is a common sentiment you will hear from me. I feel that so many episodes of B5 people feel are weak are actually only weak because JMS made the mistake of trying to tell too big a story in one television episode. A prime example of this I always like to point to is INFECTION. If that episode had been a two part episode it would have worked so much better because JMS wrote an epic plot there. I mean you have the extinction of an entire species to work with. I think that episode would be perfect if things had been given more time to create more detail and form. Everything feels rushed.

I imagine I'll slow down; I just kind of wanted to bank a few episodes while I have the time. Some of this is that I've been feeling a fair bit depressed, and I'm trying to distract myself. I don't foresee myself sticking to this level of frequency of posting.

The Parliament of Dreams

The introduction of Catherine Sakai. Carolyn Sykes was a pleasant enough character in “The Gathering,” but she along with the three main cast members who didn’t come over for the show had to be replaced. Of all the former lovers come to B5 – which given the nature of the show, I understand why that is how the show would have to deal with a story involving someone’s ex, but it’s a trope that gets used too much on Babylon 5 – Catherine Sakai is my favorite.

She’s interesting all on her own, not just through her connection to another character. She’s been enough of a presence in Sinclair’s life that Garibaldi recognized her on sight. She’s a business woman. A surveyor. Her and Sinclair’s history is extensive. She’s previously promised to stay away from him, apparently. “I don’t mean to alarm you, but your pants are talking to you.” Sinclair is clearly happy to see her from the moment he does.

To be honest, I don’t 100% fully buy the relationship between Sheridan and Delenn; I don’t not buy it, but it feels a bit more staged, and less organic. But pretty much from the first moment, I totally buy the relationship between Sakai and Sinclair. Some might think their banter is too clever, but I think it shows a significant psychological connection between the two. They have shorthand in their dialogue that feels so natural to me.

G’Kar’s song while fixing dinner is fun; I just sung along with him. But alas, he cannot eat due to death threat. This gives us our first real look at Narn culture. They have an organization of assassins. They have some form of governmental body that is organized by “circles.”

Sakai is not the only interesting, strong female character introduced in this episode; we also get Na’Toth. I love her and it sucks that she couldn’t stay in the show. She just flat out tells G’Kar that if she were the assassin, she would have killed him already. That’s a mighty forward thing to say to your new boss. She eventually has to think outside the box in order to save G’Kar, and she gets to kick him. Again, he’s her new boss.

Religion. The Centauri. It’s a party. There’s food, music, and plenty of booze. (I just saw a Narn attending in the background.) It’s not exactly the most pleasant of origins for a celebration: Centauri killing off an entire species. We learn that the Centauri is dominantly a polytheistic culture. Londo’s toast is fantastic. “But in purple, I’m stunning!”

Religion. The Minbari. Delenn is pleased to have her new aid Lennier arrive in time to help her with a display of Minbari dominant religion. Lennier is super passive. He lets slip to us viewers that Delenn is very high ranking in Minbari government. This might be the first time we’ve really gotten some information about how religious Delenn is. The Minbari display is much the opposite of the Centauri. Slow, quiet, and meditative. We get more hints of Valen. We get references to the Earth-Minbari War. We get references to the Minbari’s current governmental structure’s birth (“the nine”). In many ways, the display is very cryptic, much like the Minbari themselves.

Religion. Humanity. The premise has been that each culture is showcasing their dominant religion. This singularizes what they show us and unfortunately makes the aliens look like members of monocultures. And then Sinclair turns around and says forget the dominant religious display (and thus the premise of what they’re all doing), I’m just going to parade a bunch of different Earth religions before everyone. It’s nice. It makes a message. But it also raises the question of if he’s not going to stick to the dominant aspect of the display, then it would have been nice to have previously maybe had something of a point made that the various aliens weren’t anymore monocultural than humans were. I really doubt we’d be that special to be the only species capable of cultural diversity. In the human scene, there are some unfortunate stereotyping/caricaturing of some religions in the clothing used for the actors. And O’Hare mispronounces “Taoist.” I like the music that plays during the scene.

This is my favorite episode out of the first five.

Mind War

This episode was one I have a definitive memory of sitting on the floor of my living room watching one midday Saturday when it first aired.

This is our first episode to really focus on human telepaths. The parts about telepaths in “The Gathering” and “Midnight On The Firing Line” were introductions. This is our first our first step beyond that introduction. And it’s our first direct look at the PsiCorps. We got Ivanova’s story of her mother in MOTFL, but we get the severity of what PsiCorps is in this episode. If we’re inclined to side with Ivanova because of her story, how the PsiCops treat Talia, and Ivanova’s being so immediate in giving her a glass of water suggests to the audience that we shouldn’t dislike Talia for being PsiCorps, but that we should have a problem with the Corps.

The Sinclair/Sakai relationship continues. She’s going to get her own plot this episode, and it’s not connected to Sinclair but to her job and her life. She’s more than just a love interest. We see how she works. And she gets to talk to G’Kar. We’ve had a lot of anger and militancy from G’Kar, but the previous episode and this begin to complicate his character for us. As he eventually tells Sakai, “no one here is exactly what he appears,” and then demonstrates for us himself in this episode. And we get to see the Walkers of Sigma 957. It’s easy to think they’re just some quick thing to be forgotten, but no, they return later in the series and in a big way. G’Kar’s conversations with Sakai in this episode give us our first real taste of how G’Kar is connected to larger cosmic and philosophical thoughts. This is the episode where we truly get our first realization that G’Kar is a very layered character.

Jason Ironheart is one of our major guest characters this episode. What was that I just said in the last review: they over use the trope of the ex coming to B5. Well here is Talia’s lover. (And instructor, which is creepy.) Ironheart is no longer a regular telepath. He’s become telekinetic. A product of PsiCorps experimentation. Turns out the PsiCorps wanted him to be an assassin. The idea of using telekinesis to assassinate someone quietly is something JMS would write in other of his work too.

The PsiCops are freaky. Walter Koenig as Bester is fantastic. The man many had loved as Chekov on Star Trek is now a villain, and he makes everything super uncomfortable. The other PsiCop however sometimes even looks like she’s physically chewing her lines of dialog. Not the best casting there, perhaps.

The human (or close enough) character becoming “something more” is a trope used so frequently it’s tiresome. It’s the necessary destination for this plot, but it doesn’t keep it from feeling cliché. I can’t remember how I felt about it at the time this episode was new though. But it enables Ironheart to give Talia her “gift.” The beginning of her ascent to greater telepathic power. Unfortunately, since Andrea Thompson eventually wanted off the show, she didn’t get to play this part of the plot to its conclusion seasons later.

I like the music in this episode. It has an appropriate amount of creepiness to it.

Two of the best from Season 1. These two give G'Kar a lot more depth -- "Parliament" that he's even more dangerous than he seems (but also hilarious on occasion), "Mind War" that he's a lot more decent than he seems. And more eloquent.

I really like both Na'Toth and Catherine and wish they'd been around a lot more.


As to the religious aspects: there are some hints that the aliens are not so monolithic. The Minbari are really the only ones who only present one belief, and that makes a lot of sense, really. The Centauri have "gods by the bushel, gods for every occasion," so it's clearly a bit of pick-from-the-menu approach with them. We have two Narn beliefs mentioned -- followers of G'Quan and G'Lan. (Considering that G'Lan is later revealed to be Kosh, or at least a Vorlon, it's interesting that the Narns made a formal religion out of it. I think that actually ties in with something from one of the Psi Corps books, which I can go into if people aren't familiar with them.) But yes, more variation would have been nice.

The last scene with what Sinclair puts together is heart-warming, but maybe it doesn't stand up to full scrutiny, no. What makes it a big deal is that this episode says, "This is science fiction, yes, but religion is not going to be a punch line, a punching bag, or a plot device on this show." And that I appreciate.


I'm sorry to hear you are feeling poorly, VL. I have been, as well -- and I, too, armor my mind in tales in order to make it through.

vacantlook said:

I imagine I'll slow down; I just kind of wanted to bank a few episodes while I have the time. Some of this is that I've been feeling a fair bit depressed, and I'm trying to distract myself. I don't foresee myself sticking to this level of frequency of posting.

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KoshFan said:

I'm sorry to hear you are feeling poorly, VL. I have been, as well -- and I, too, armor my mind in tales in order to make it through.

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Sorry, don't take this the wrong way but HAHAHAHA. That is me laughing with you not at you. I do the same thing when I am depressed. I start watching B5 and wanting to talk about B5 or trying to plan to go to a convention where I might meet some B5 folks. It is tough because I want to post stuff about episodes and the shows all the time, but when I do I rarely seem to get a reply. I also get discouraged because I realize sometimes I am repeating sentiments I've stated before. You know what though, since 2013 I've tried to keep B5 in my life as much as possible and it really has made a difference. It is a little difference, but I have noticed it. What I mean by that is I am on of those people who WATCHES A LOT. I also collect A LOT. I've found focusing more of my attention on my love for B5 has really made me feel better. It can be discouraging at times, but it can also be WONDERFUL - see me in Galveston 2014 or at Space City Comic Con with Jan in Houston last year. Okay I am going to start rambling more than I already am so I am going to move on to the next episodes and save you the trouble of reading more on this topic. LOL I will just say this, times are tough as hell and I GREATLY appreciate being able to come here and talk to people who love something I love too.

vacantlook said:

The Parliament of Dreams
I understand why that is how the show would have to deal with a story involving someone’s ex, but it’s a trope that gets used too much on Babylon 5

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I don't think it gets used too much. I think it gets used poorly a couple of times, but on the whole I think people coming out of character's pasts really adds to the show. Unfortunately having too many of them be ex-loves might have been a misstep - See War Prayer for an example of an ex-relationship I didn't quite buy.

vacantlook said:

To be honest, I don’t 100% fully buy the relationship between Sheridan and Delenn; I don’t not buy it, but it feels a bit more staged, and less organic. But pretty much from the first moment, I totally buy the relationship between Sakai and Sinclair. Some might think their banter is too clever, but I think it shows a significant psychological connection between the two. They have shorthand in their dialogue that feels so natural to me.

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I definitely agree with this. I have always felt that the Sheridan Delenn relationship was poorly executed. I don't think it is terrible, but I think it falls into the category of plot aspects that needed more time to evolve so they didn't feel rushed. Chalk it up to another weakness caused by telling a story in a TV show. You have a formatted structure you have to squeeze everything into and some things can't be given the proper exposition to make them seem real. Sinclair and Sakai it was pretty instant, but they had the benefit of previously being involved in a time the viewers never saw. They fell into a pre-established relationship.

vacantlook said:

They have an organization of assassins.

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This raises a question that I think I know the answer to, but can't remember. Is the Assassin's Guild just an aspect of Narn society? Obviously Raiders and The Thieves' Guild are not specific to one race or government.

vacantlook said:

Mind War
but that we should have a problem with the Corps.

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Yep, prior to this it was kind of an "I don't know" about the Corps, but this episode definitely establishes - "Fear the Corps."

vacantlook said:

This is the episode where we truly get our first realization that G’Kar is a very layered character.

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Yes I think "truly" is the proper use here. This is the moment where G'Kar's layers really come out in an obvious manner. Personally I feel like G'Kar's best early moment that makes you question whether or not he is going to be the villain he has been to that point comes in Born To Purple. That whole episode gives G'Kar a lighter appearance, but the first moment is when Sinclair and G'Kar find Londo waiting to watch Adira dance. When Adira starts and Londo ushers the two of them to sit, G'Kar does so without hesitation. That moment is absolutely BRILLIANT to me.

vacantlook said:

What was that I just said in the last review: they over use the trope of the ex coming to B5. Well here is Talia’s lover. (And instructor, which is creepy.)

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Absolutely agree in this instance. Making him an ex-lover felt weird, but I completely understand why JMS had to do it. If Ironheart had just been a friend or admired Instructor the weight of the situation would not have felt as real. If she didn't have a romantic attachment to Ironheart I don't think it would have been as believable to have her help him. Plus as we moved forward we had to know the emotional stakes had to be high for her to turn on the Corps. If Ironheart had just been a friend then it wouldn't seem as real later on when she defends the Corps, if that makes sense. Plus this does establish her beginning to turn from the Corps.

vacantlook said:

The PsiCops are freaky. Walter Koenig as Bester is fantastic. The man many had loved as Chekov on Star Trek is now a villain, and he makes everything super uncomfortable. The other PsiCop however sometimes even looks like she’s physically chewing her lines of dialog. Not the best casting there, perhaps.

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Yes Felicity Waterman definitely seemed out of her element here. I don't know if it was her or poor direction or just not quite having a sense of how she was supposed to play it on both of their parts. I have to say that I feel like it is her because Koenig is so FREAKIN' AWESOME! If there was some question as to how they were supposed to play these characters I don't believe Bester would have been so spot on. I could be wrong though. Maybe Koenig just thought he should play it this way and she thought she was supposed to be a different sort. I will say the one thing that has always bothered me about this episode is that Ironheart vaporizes her. It just never made sense to me that he would go that far with her and pull back with Bester. It is one of those moments where they did it to illustrate what Ironheart could do, but at the same time it seemed to take the episode off course for a second. In the end it REALLY works because it makes certain she NEVER comes back. Nothing against Felicity Waterman, but the character just didn't come across as well as she could have.

vacantlook said:

The human (or close enough) character becoming “something more” is a trope used so frequently it’s tiresome. It’s the necessary destination for this plot, but it doesn’t keep it from feeling cliché. I can’t remember how I felt about it at the time this episode was new though. But it enables Ironheart to give Talia her “gift.” The beginning of her ascent to greater telepathic power. Unfortunately, since Andrea Thompson eventually wanted off the show, she didn’t get to play this part of the plot to its conclusion seasons later.

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This goes back to something I said the other day. Normally this would be a plot I didn't care for. Like vacantlook says, "cliche" and I often say "SciFi for SciFi sake", but of course JMS then takes a plot I wish he hadn't done and turns it into something that works very well for me, or could have worked very well had Thompson stuck with the show - (PS I love her, but I love Lyta more.)

As far as I can tell, the Assassins' Guild is Narn exclusive. I don't remember it ever being mentioned other than this particular instance. But it's well known enough that Na'Toth can discuss their procedures (the black flower) and can put on enough of a ruse (knowing they always send a backup in case the primary doesn't finish the job) to get into place to help G'Kar. One would think assassins would be more secretive with their ways.

Maybe if the show had been explicit and Talia specified she was an adult when Ironheart was her instructor then it wouldn't seem quite as creepy. But Talia has already informed us (through her conversation with Ivanova in "Midnight On The Firing Line") that she was raised by the PsiCorps. If she had said something like, he had been my instructor but then years later the relationship developed, then it wouldn't have been so creepy either. But without any kind of details like that, it's a bit weird. She was raised by the Corps and there had an instructor with whom she had had sex. I could really use some clarification on the timing of all that.

I wonder if Ironheart was fully in control of things when he vaporized the PsiCop. Like with that PsiCop, the guy playing Ironheart was okay, but not the greatest actor. So sometimes I'm not completely sure how I should read the character. The actor didn't seem to portray any facial expression of shock or anything over her disintegration, but narratively his powers were overwhelming him enough that he was causing the station to quake, so he could have been just trying to wack her with some kind of telekinetic push but overdid it.

I like the performance of Lyta more, I think, especially her blackeyed "What do you know of hell" or however the comment was, and the scene where she's discussing essentially being a telepathic superweapon with Garibaldi. I think I like the potentiality in Talia's narrative more. With episodes like the one she had in the second season helping the runaway telepaths, Talia pushing back against the PsiCorps would have been more personal that it feels for me when Lyta does it. Part of that, I guess, is that I really don't buy Lyta and Byron (because it wasn't ever supposed to have been Lyta in love with Byron in the first place, and I think that still echoes even if they did write the two of them together).

Looney said:

I don't think it gets used too much. I think it gets used poorly a couple of times, but on the whole I think people coming out of character's pasts really adds to the show. Unfortunately having too many of them be ex-loves might have been a misstep - See War Prayer for an example of an ex-relationship I didn't quite buy.

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Heh, funny thing: I had to think about this for a second because "War Prayer" also has a great example of someone from a character's past that works just great: Delenn and Shal Mayan. Delenn also has Draal come through later in S1.

The only time I can remember an old friend of one of the humans coming through is Walker Smith, unless we count Kemmer in "Survivors." And of the ambassadors, only Londo has an old friend (his dueling buddy) turn up.

Stack that up against exes (once each for Sinclair, Talia, Ivanova, and Garibaldi, and twice for Sheridan) and family (Sheridan's sister, G'Kar's uncle, fathers for Sheridan, Ivanova, and Franklin) and I feel friendship is under-represented.

On the other hand, maybe that makes sense. It's mentioned that Garibaldi has almost no friends aside from Ivanova, Sinclair, and Franklin. Franklin's a workaholic. Ivanova's the same. Maybe the lack of friends turning up is supposed to tell us something.

Looney said:

Sorry, don't take this the wrong way but HAHAHAHA. That is me laughing with you not at you. I do the same thing when I am depressed. I start watching B5 and wanting to talk about B5 or trying to plan to go to a convention where I might meet some B5 folks. It is tough because I want to post stuff about episodes and the shows all the time, but when I do I rarely seem to get a reply. I also get discouraged because I realize sometimes I am repeating sentiments I've stated before. You know what though, since 2013 I've tried to keep B5 in my life as much as possible and it really has made a difference. It is a little difference, but I have noticed it. What I mean by that is I am on of those people who WATCHES A LOT. I also collect A LOT. I've found focusing more of my attention on my love for B5 has really made me feel better. It can be discouraging at times, but it can also be WONDERFUL - see me in Galveston 2014 or at Space City Comic Con with Jan in Houston last year. Okay I am going to start rambling more than I already am so I am going to move on to the next episodes and save you the trouble of reading more on this topic. LOL I will just say this, times are tough as hell and I GREATLY appreciate being able to come here and talk to people who love something I love too.

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I hear you! I can start to feel myself running low on the stories I need, sometimes, and have to consciously remind myself of them. Last night was a little rough and I had to bring G'Kar back to mind, and the others, to get myself through it. Where would I be without G'Kar? (And Buffy, and Tiffany Aching, and Cazaril, to wander a little farther afield, fictionally...)

And where would I be without this site? I had some lonely years in college, a time when one is theoretically not supposed to be lonely, and this site definitely filled a hole. Markas in particular helped keep me sane.