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Old June 22nd 17, 05:48   #91
Looney
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Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?

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Originally Posted by hypatia View Post
It really is good to see new fans coming to a show that hasn't been given decent exposure in decades.
I just wish it would happen at a quicker pace. We need hype to get JMS more clout so he can do something with the franchise.

I just wish WB would give it up already. There should be some legal action taken. It isn't right that they can just sit on it. It is his intellectual property. They financed the show twenty years ago. If they aren't interested in financing anything else they should not be legally allowed to control it. It is just another example how in this country the term legal does not mean just. [Soap Box Moment!]
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Old June 22nd 17, 16:33   #92
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Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?

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I don't know if it would impact us here, but there's a guy named Mark Oshiro who, due to a strict upbringing, did not watch a lot of shows growing up that many of us have. He's currently finishing up the various Star Trek series (he just recently started Enterprise.

He tweeted out his plans for after Star Trek. He's first going to do a palate cleanser and watch the 5 seasons of Alias and the first season of Yuri On Ice. And then... Babylon 5.

Given that he won't be through with Star Trek until November and will be doing several seasons of other shows before getting around to B5, it might not be until this time next year that he finally starts, but it's often interesting to see his thoughts on shows. I read along when he did the Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel series several years ago; I found out about this guy when someone had posted on another forum about his having watched and commented on Avatar The Last Airbender. It's always fun to follow with someone when they watch a show I like for the first time, so I'm excited he's going to do B5, even if it's some time away.

Oh, I forgot, folks might want a link to his website where he posts his reviews: markwatches.net
There is always Katie on You Tube. She binge watched several episodes for the first time about 3 years ago and reported her thoughts.

Then JMS binge watched Katie.

The wheel turns, does it not....?
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Old June 23rd 17, 02:02   #93
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Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?

Yes I am very familiar with Katie. I have thought of doing something similar with a friend of mine, but I don't think we could live up to what Katie captured.
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Old June 23rd 17, 12:02   #94
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Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?

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Originally Posted by Looney View Post
I just wish WB would give it up already. There should be some legal action taken. It isn't right that they can just sit on it. It is his intellectual property. They financed the show twenty years ago. If they aren't interested in financing anything else they should not be legally allowed to control it. It is just another example how in this country the term legal does not mean just. [Soap Box Moment!]
There's really nothing unjust about it. It's not JMS intellectual property because he sold it. It's WBs IP and theirs to do with - or not do with - as they like. And whether you like it or not, it's really perfectly just. How would you like it if somebody sold you a chair and then wanted to be able to take it back because they felt you didn't sit in it enough? (reverse soap box moment - been through this conversation recently with too many Sense8 fans)
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Old June 23rd 17, 16:34   #95
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Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?

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I just wish WB would give it up already. There should be some legal action taken. It isn't right that they can just sit on it. It is his intellectual property. They financed the show twenty years ago. If they aren't interested in financing anything else they should not be legally allowed to control it. It is just another example how in this country the term legal does not mean just. [Soap Box Moment!]
There's really nothing unjust about it. It's not JMS intellectual property because he sold it. It's WBs IP and theirs to do with - or not do with - as they like. And whether you like it or not, it's really perfectly just. How would you like it if somebody sold you a chair and then wanted to be able to take it back because they felt you didn't sit in it enough? (reverse soap box moment - been through this conversation recently with too many Sense8 fans)
(OH JAN I have got you on that last sentence. I know now that you are weakened from discussions with Sense 8 fans, however, I feel that at this juncture the arguments are different because what happened with Sense 8 is too recent.)

I whole-heartedly disagree with your comments. Let me first say that I wrote those statements in haste. I should not have said there should be "legal action." What I should have said is that "in a JUST world there should be legal action." In Looney's ramblings Looney was not clear where Looney was coming from.

The reality is WB is a corporation who had NOTHING to do with the intellectual creation of Babylon 5. They gave JMS the power make the show strictly to reap the profits from what HE and HIS TEAM created. He sold them the rights because it is the only way to get things done in that business because as a corporation, or mafia type organization, they won't give you the funding unless you are making it for them to have the profits forever. (And don't get me wrong. I am not saying JMS didn't make money.) There is nothing just about that structure, but it has been deemed legal thanks in part to people who have corrupted the legal system.

WB is not a person with feelings. They are a money machine that thrives on profits and control. I don't think you can compare what I would feel vs what a corporation does about controlling assets they don't deserve to, but thanks to legal reality do, have control over. Since you wanted me to ask myself a comparison question here is a better breakdown of what you suggested in this instance. JMS wanted to build a chair after he had drawn up the plans. He didn't have the funds for the tools to build his chair. The only way to get those funds for those tools was follow rules setup up by the corporations who controlled those tools. These rules stipulated that you couldn't just borrow the funds to build your chair you had to sell the corporation the chair so it was their chair to reap all of the profits that chair could yield. What about that system sounds just? What about that system doesn't actually sound a little criminal? If I want to write a play, but I can't afford paper I go to a bank. I take out a loan to buy paper. Should the bank own the play after they have been paid back what I borrowed plus a hefty profit as interest? The WB isn't a bank, but they have setup a system like a bank only they keep everything.

I understand that in the current legal reality of our society it is deemed that they own it, but my brain can't comprehend that as justice in this situation. What is just is that they not be allowed to sit on HIS intellectual property because they gave him the money to create something with it more than twenty years ago. If he wants to create more then they should not be allowed to stop him after such a long time and after likely making back far more than they ever gave him. If anything they are currently stymieing the creative process of this intellectual property. Having said that I am 100% behind them if they want to partner with him on future projects. If not then justice would mean they can't just sit on it forever and do nothing with it. At a minimum they should sell the rights back to him so he can proceed as he sees fit. He can even cut them in on some of the profits.

Having said all of this I would like to say that I am grateful to them for originally financing the show, but I can't help but feel the show might have been FAR better off if JMS had been lucky enough to join forces with a different studio. I know that it actually is a case of perfect timing in this instance. If WB hadn't been trying to go forward on the PTEN front we might not have gotten B5 when we got it, if ever, but I think we all know where I am coming from. It is all "Ifs and Buts" and wow have I wasted a lot of time on this.

Love you Jan! Thanks for sparking my outburst! Can't wait to hear you shoot me down and explain that we live in that legal reality that I was bashing and no matter how hard I try to talk outside it nothing will change. I can't wait to hear you tell me that I can't keep living in a fairy tale land where WB has GIVEN JMS back all rights to Babylon 5 along with two hundred million dollars to do with as he sees fit . . . and an apology.

(I REALLY hope you like that last bit. It is comedy gold to me.)

P.S. Jan, you don't actually need to respond. You know me and you know I know I am living in a dream world (A DREAM WORLD THAT IS HOW REALITY SHOULD BE) and not the reality of this situation. I don't need you to explain it all to me like you've had to with the Sense 8 fans. This ain't my first rodeo. We both know that there is some logic to what I said, but we also both know I am crazy and sometimes I need to let the crazy out there into the world. (That doesn't mean everything I said is wrong. It just means that it comes from idealistic fantasy thinking.)
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Old June 23rd 17, 21:05   #96
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Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?

Dream on, Looney, dream on. I'll simply say that just because somebody created an intellectual property, it doesn't remain theirs once it's sold.

But you know...if I wanted to really throw you off, I could mention that in ways that matter, WB didn't 'finance' the show at all. The stations that signed on to PTEN did. WB just *bought* the show and made it available.

Just sayin'....
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Old June 23rd 17, 21:39   #97
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Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?

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But you know...if I wanted to really throw you off, I could mention that in ways that matter, WB didn't 'finance' the show at all. The stations that signed on to PTEN did. WB just *bought* the show and made it available.

Just sayin'....
OMG that is sooooo true. WHERE IS THE JUSTICE IN THIS ?! ?! ?! ?! ?!

I think I am most upset at the fact that I didn't bring up that point. Jan just bested me at my own game that I created in my warped little mind.

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Old June 24th 17, 03:04   #98
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Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?

I'm very much enjoying the conversation that has ensued since my "pull the plug?" post.

Officially speaking, I don't think we're in danger of the death knell just now. Keep gadding about the place and I'll keep our big boss off our backs.

So nice to see some of the old-timers here. I feel like the rim has set them loose.
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Old June 25th 17, 20:21   #99
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Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?

Old timers eh? Haha! It is great to see so many from the beginning, or close to it.

"Hell, I'll probably still be here when they turn out the lights!"
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Old June 26th 17, 01:54   #100
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Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?

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Old timers eh? Haha! It is great to see so many from the beginning, or close to it.

"Hell, I'll probably still be here when they turn out the lights!"
I wish I could claim to be new blood, but I feel like I have been around forever!

I just also wanted to say once again how awesome it is to be able to talk B5 while having B5 open in another tab playing on Go90. Friggin Sweet!

Last edited by Looney; June 26th 17 at 01:59.
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