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View Poll Results: The Path Of Sorrows
A -- Excellent 6 42.86%
B -- Good 6 42.86%
C -- Average 2 14.29%
D -- Poor 0 0%
F -- Failure 0 0%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 24th 07, 14:12   #1
vacantlook
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EpDis: Crusade: The Path Of Sorrows

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Old June 25th 07, 15:36   #2
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Re: EpDis: Crusade: The Path Of Sorrows

'A+' - a personal favorite. We learn about Gideon's, Matheson's and Galen's past by seeing it, not through exposition as TNT wanted. Gideon's and Galen's is from the period of The Passing of the Techno-mages, and Matheson's is from The Telepath War. Gideon and Matheson are released from a bit of their burden, but Galen is still closed off.
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Old June 26th 07, 10:45   #3
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Re: EpDis: Crusade: The Path Of Sorrows

I've always felt that Matheson telepathically picked up on Galen's memory, due to his strong emotional outburst.

I think he deliberately tried to help him overcome his long held grief, by bringing that "message" that was picked up by Excalibur.

Whether or not he made it up, found something pertinent, randomly by happy coincidence, or recieved a deliberate transmission by Isabel from beyond, is an entirely different matter and entirely up to th individual I guess.
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Old June 26th 07, 18:18   #4
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Re: EpDis: Crusade: The Path Of Sorrows

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad View Post
I've always felt that Matheson telepathically picked up on Galen's memory, due to his strong emotional outburst.
Which strong emotional outburst?

When Galen was about to cast a fireball at the alien, and Gideon and Matheson stopped him, and Galen left?

...or...

When Galen crumpled up and discarded the message that Matheson handed him?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad View Post
I think he deliberately tried to help him overcome his long held grief, by bringing that "message" that was picked up by Excalibur.

Whether or not he made it up, found something pertinent, randomly by happy coincidence,
I don't think that Matheson would have made it up or found something pertinent, randomly by happy coincidence, and used it to help Galen overcome his long held grief. That would be manipulation of a friend and crewmember, regardless of the good intentions, and I don't think Matheson would have done that.



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....or recieved a deliberate transmission by Isabel from beyond, is an entirely different matter and entirely up to the individual I guess.
I think the alien sent it (as Galen suspects), but it might be that the alien was a conduit/facilitator for Isabelle's message (like Lochley was a conduit/facilitator for Kosh's message to Sheridan in Day of the Dead.). Matheson just brought it to Galen, not knowing beforehand the context, but may have picked up on it after he gave the note to Galen. Regardless, Matheson's empathy and understanding is sincere.
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"Crusade" (1999) - "War Zone"
Max Eilerson: "The story of my life. I finally find a city like this, intact, deserted for ten thousand years. Probably contains hundreds of patents that I could exploit and I'm going to die. I can appreciate dramatic irony as much as the next person, but this is pushing it a bit."
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Old June 26th 07, 19:32   #5
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Re: EpDis: Crusade: The Path Of Sorrows

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshN View Post
Which strong emotional outburst?

When Galen was about to cast a fireball at the alien, and Gideon and Matheson stopped him, and Galen left?

...or...

When Galen crumpled up and discarded the message that Matheson handed him?
The former.

Quote:
I don't think that Matheson would have made it up or found something pertinent, randomly by happy coincidence, and used it to help Galen overcome his long held grief. That would be manipulation of a friend and crewmember, regardless of the good intentions, and I don't think Matheson would have done that.
I don't personally believe the former, the latter is possible... but I prefer to go with it being a genuine message. I DO believe he reads emotions and tries to help his friends and fellow crew out... he pretty much admits this in his personal log in "The Needs of Earth"


Quote:
I think the alien sent it (as Galen suspects)
Is that actually mentioned by Galen or is it something you believe is implied by his reaction? I'd never considered it.

Quote:
but it might be that the alien was a conduit/facilitator for Isabelle's message (like Lochley was a conduit/facilitator for Kosh's message to Sheridan in Day of the Dead.). Matheson just brought it to Galen, not knowing beforehand the context, but may have picked up on it after he gave the note to Galen.
Whereas I think he knew exactly what he was doing with that note. There is something about the way he says "I know", which leads me to suspect it has two meanings.

Quote:
Regardless, Matheson's empathy and understanding is sincere.
I don't doubt that at all. It is clear that Matheson sees his ability as a gift to better the lives around him, when he bends the rules, he does it out of a genuione compassion and need to benefit their lives.
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Old June 26th 07, 20:11   #6
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Re: EpDis: Crusade: The Path Of Sorrows

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad View Post
Is that actually mentioned by Galen or is it something you believe is implied by his reaction? I'd never considered it.
No, it's not from something that Galen said. It's not literal, like that. For me, it's the look of realization that came over Galen's face after he read the message, and heard/remembered Isabelle's words. It's as if somebody threw a switch and you can just see Galen's mind going to strongly suspect that the alien sent the message. The alien tapped into Galen's mind and Galen knows it. IMHO, Galen suspects that the alien manufactured the transmission, possibly to give him some peace/forgiveness.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad View Post
Whereas I think he knew exactly what he was doing with that note. There is something about the way he says "I know", which leads me to suspect it has two meanings.
I think Matheson is just agreeing and empathizing with Galen over the message coming from nowhere in particular. Neither one knows what to believe.



Quote:
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I don't doubt that at all. It is clear that Matheson sees his ability as a gift to better the lives around him, when he bends the rules, he does it out of a genuione compassion and need to benefit their lives.
He'd certainly be a good friend.
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"Crusade" (1999) - "War Zone"
Max Eilerson: "The story of my life. I finally find a city like this, intact, deserted for ten thousand years. Probably contains hundreds of patents that I could exploit and I'm going to die. I can appreciate dramatic irony as much as the next person, but this is pushing it a bit."
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Old June 27th 07, 00:20   #7
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Re: EpDis: Crusade: The Path Of Sorrows

Galen simply wasn't ready to give up his anger at the Universe. The alien offered a chance to relieve the soul's burden, which he vehemently protested. Deep down, it had become an integral part of his psyche and he was afraid of change. His lashing out at the alien was a simple and irrational fear response.

Also, he had convinced himself that there was no purpose and no plan in the Universe - that everything was random nad meaningless. So when Matheson hands him a signed love letter from the beyond, Galen simply crushes it and walks away. What more can you ask for?

It seems to me that Galen's struggle with faith would've been a very significant, if not the most significant, part of his overall character arc.
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Old May 23rd 15, 01:29   #8
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Re: EpDis: Crusade: The Path Of Sorrows

I've seen people mention this as their favorite, or one of their favorite Crusade episodes, but ... it's not really doing anything for me. I like the flashback back-story stuff, but it just seems so random, and Star Trek-ey. I said that about the last episode I watched as well, so I guess perhaps Crusade just feels more Star Trek-ey to me than Babylon 5-ey. It makes sense for this show to be more random encounters since it's about a spaceship and its crew, going around the galaxy looking for remnants of alien civilizations. I'm just not used to this randomness in the B5 universe.

I quite like the Galen character, but that thing he did at the start of this episode was a real asshole move. Couldn't he have put forth some effort and used his OWN sorrow to open the gate? Did he have to upset someone else? He doesn't seem particularly sorry about it, either.

Aren't there protocols for what to do when you find a random alien in a pod on a distant planet? I am guessing you're not really supposed to bring something like that on board your ship. Certainly not without a quarantine period.

Don't get me started on Eilerson's ideas on "archaeology" :-|
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Old May 24th 15, 14:38   #9
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Re: EpDis: Crusade: The Path Of Sorrows

One thing to remember is that Crusade was never supposed to feel like B5. It was supposed to be far more of an episodic nature and not nearly as tightly-woven. That said, remember that you're comparing a few episodes of Crusade to the entirety of B5. The first episodes of B5 had people yelling at JMS that the arc was a sham.

One thing I never understood is what Mattheson felt so ashamed about?

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Old May 28th 15, 02:54   #10
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Re: EpDis: Crusade: The Path Of Sorrows

Yea, I can accept both of those. It DOES make sense for it to be more random encounters and stuff like that, AND there's only the handful of episodes. I'm also just going through for the first time ever, and haven't even seen all episodes yet. I've had almost twenty years to think about all 110 Babylon 5 episodes (and a handful of movies). There's really no comparison there.

I'm not sure about Matheson's story there, either. It seemed like he was getting away with a bunch of other people. He must have gotten at least some of his closest friends out, but since The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father, maybe he feels like he murdered his whole extended family ... Even if it wasn't actually him doing the murdering? I just watched this last week, and already my memory is a bit hazy... I might be WAY off!
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