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View Poll Results: Who do you think will win the Super Bowl?
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Old February 24th 15, 00:37   #21
Lennier's Tears
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Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf

Ah yes, Vir. He is growing up, so to speak. But he retains his integrity, which is sort of amazing, considering his influences ...

I agree about Londo's plotting against the emperor being a highlight, also. It's excellent stuff.
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Old February 25th 15, 02:56   #22
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Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf

This is a great episode. Another "one of my favorites".

There is a lot of story and momentum building up, and this is a kind of depressing moment for our heroes.

It is almost like a pause, before a lot of big stuff starts to happen.
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Old March 27th 15, 07:38   #23
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Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf

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This is a very solid season opener. It has a somewhat different tone than the previous episodes. Everything looks darker still than season 3, especially those scenes in the imperial palace on Centauri Prime, and of course the bit at the end with Lorien.
I think this is really notable in the first couple of episodes of the season have a different tone to both the end of season 3 and what follows. As you say so many scenes are very darkly lit and the overall effect is I would say rather reflective of Sheridans position, a sense of things in the balance with mortality and hopelessly creeping from the darkness.

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C̶a̶l̶i̶g̶u̶l̶a̶ Cartagia is fantastic. He's a glorious madman. What a great character. Completely mad, and fabulous. I've always really liked Virini, too. I used to use one of his lines from a later episode as a signature ("I think we are well beyond pastels now"). And of course, Londo's realization of what he's going to have to do to "fix" this, and his comment about his relationship with Vir "you are the closest thing I have to a friend". It's all excellent stuff.
It is interesting just how much of a lift he is of Caligula, or at least the Robert Graves I, Cladius version of him that most people know. Londo is somewhat playing the Cladius role thoughout the opening few episodes humouring him when he sees just how dangerous he is and Cartagia has just the same mix of grand insane ambition and cowardice. There are little things like walking the streets himself engaging in debauchery or the ultra loyalty of his bodyguards as well, You could view that as unoriginal I spose but I tend to be more impressed that JMS found a way to plug that character into his storyline.

Looking at Krimmers performance for me it rather highlights that dispite Babylon 5 being a signpost on the way of todays "Hollywood TV" I think JMS also brought a love for the kind of more pulpy larger than life styles of sci fi/fantasy. I think its notable that most of his cast weren't film actors "slumming it" they were TV actors generally giving the best performances of their careers.
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Old April 17th 15, 02:18   #24
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Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf

I wouldn't go so far as to call Cartagia a "lift" of Caligula. I see obvious similarities, but there have been other such mad tyrant characters throughout human history. There's been lots of them in fiction, too. I don't think that necessarily makes any one such character "unoriginal".

When I look at the Centauri, I see Romans (well, I see some similarities with SOME aspects of Roman society during the early empire), because that's what I'm (somewhat) familiar with. I imagine someone with a different background might see something else, entirely! That is not to say I think Romans were NOT an inspiration when the Centauri were written. JMS exists in the same world we do, and, being from the US, would by necessity be influenced by stories from western history. But, there'd be a lot of other stuff in his background, too.

I love the whole Centauri "concept", one of the best alien races in TV history. I guess we know more about them than any other of the B5 aliens, except perhaps the Minbari. And I really love Cartagia ... I may have mentioned that a time or two
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Old April 24th 15, 20:47   #25
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Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf

The Caligula like character has IMHO become rather Shakespearian to the degree that I think its more interesting to see it given a different placement/bent rather than looking on it as lacking originality.

Beyond the obvious Roman influence in the Centauri I believe JMS has said theres more than a little late British Empire. Perhaps you could say a bit of a "what if" there showing what we'd have needed to become to hang onto the Empire maybe doing a deal with the Shadows/Nazi's.

Generally I think its that aspect of the Centauri that makes them one of the best TV alien races, I wouldn't say we know vastly more about them than other races in terms of history/tech/physically/etc but what we do get is more of a window into the mindset of the entire race and not a simplistic Klingon = Warrior way.
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Old April 26th 15, 23:44   #26
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Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf

I've often wondered about Klingon "counter culture". It seems highly unlikely that 100% of the population would be on board with the whole "HONOUR! DEATH! RARGH!" thing. I've done a small amount of Googling, but I've never been all that involved in Star Trek fandom (or, at all involved, really), so that's about the full extent of my research into that

I have similar questions about Centauri counter culture. It'd be interesting to explore .. I guess we get a TINY little bit of that in The War Prayer, with those two young Centauri who want to go against tradition and marry for love. Anyway, there must be Centauri, or groups of Centauri who don't do the "Centauri" hair and "Centauri dress". We saw emperor Turhan without his wig, it must not be THAT uncommon.

Related, I sort of wonder if Centauri become indistinguishable from humans if they dress "human". Indistinguishable from white humans, anyway ... Are all Centauri white, or white-appearing? That would be sort of odd, considering how light skin, light hair, and light-colored eyes evolved under some very specific circumstances on Earth. I guess the exact same circumstances occurred on Centauri Prime and Minbar ...

/tangent
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Old April 27th 15, 02:38   #27
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Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf

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Originally Posted by Lennier's Tears View Post
I've often wondered about Klingon "counter culture". It seems highly unlikely that 100% of the population would be on board with the whole "HONOUR! DEATH! RARGH!" thing. I've done a small amount of Googling, but I've never been all that involved in Star Trek fandom (or, at all involved, really), so that's about the full extent of my research into that

I have similar questions about Centauri counter culture. It'd be interesting to explore .. I guess we get a TINY little bit of that in The War Prayer, with those two young Centauri who want to go against tradition and marry for love. Anyway, there must be Centauri, or groups of Centauri who don't do the "Centauri" hair and "Centauri dress". We saw emperor Turhan without his wig, it must not be THAT uncommon.

Related, I sort of wonder if Centauri become indistinguishable from humans if they dress "human". Indistinguishable from white humans, anyway ... Are all Centauri white, or white-appearing? That would be sort of odd, considering how light skin, light hair, and light-colored eyes evolved under some very specific circumstances on Earth. I guess the exact same circumstances occurred on Centauri Prime and Minbar ...

/tangent
There were obviously some Klingons who were less "honourable" than others.in TNG era trek, prior to that they weren't really portrayed as "space Vikings".

Again what makes the Centauri more interesting for me is that its not just "culture" that unifies them but reacting to the political situation with the decline of Empire and the legacy with the Narns. I think this works so well as it both bands the race together and gives a lot of room for difference of opinion/character, from say Refa, to Londo to Turhan. All essentially reacting to the same thing but doing so in very different fashions. The big advantage for B5 generally is I would say that the different races were designed very much to fit into the plot.

Going back to the conservation about Ivanova in the endgame thread I think the first couple of episodes of season 4 are interesting in just how different her reaction is compared to Marcus's "death". Here to me she comes across not just as someone who's dealing with a friends death but as much with a lot of there own purpose in life being taken away.

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