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Old April 13th 11, 19:21   #1
Jan
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Crusade: Other Voices - Vol. 1

Just came out today. Includes two of Fiona Avery's scripts (two drafts each), concept art, script analyses and...drum roll, please...a NEVER before seen script by Peter Woodward (AKA Galen the techno-mage)!!

http://www.cafepress.com/b5books

$10 off for the first week only.

Jan
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Old April 14th 11, 03:51   #2
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Re: Crusade: Other Voices - Vol. 1

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Just came out today. Includes two of Fiona Avery's scripts (two drafts each), concept art, script analyses and...drum roll, please...a NEVER before seen script by Peter Woodward (AKA Galen the techno-mage)!!

http://www.cafepress.com/b5books

$10 off for the first week only.

Jan
Ok, impressive as that sounds, I've been burned by Cafe Press before. Is this *really* a script by Woodward, or a treatment, or what? Is it *really* a script that was being seriously considered by the show while it was in production, or just a random bit of woolgathering? How is it possible that I've never heard of the existence of this script before, even in other books by Cafe Press?

Also, "Volume 1" implies a "Volume 2." Are we looking at more scripts, or treatments or just random detritus?
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Old April 14th 11, 04:07   #3
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Re: Crusade: Other Voices - Vol. 1

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Ok, impressive as that sounds, I've been burned by Cafe Press before. Is this *really* a script by Woodward, or a treatment, or what? Is it *really* a script that was being seriously considered by the show while it was in production, or just a random bit of woolgathering? How is it possible that I've never heard of the existence of this script before, even in other books by Cafe Press?

Also, "Volume 1" implies a "Volume 2." Are we looking at more scripts, or treatments or just random detritus?
Don't know if you mean you've been burned by Cafe Press or if you were somehow dissatisfied with a book put out by the B5 scripts team. If the latter, you should email help@babylon5scripts.com to let them know. Their customer service is legendary. Note that while CP is the fulfillment company, the publisher is Publishing 180. There's also an unconditional 30-day refund guarantee.

It's a script. Full length (43 pages), and I've seen a document that showed the original placement before JMS decided that it would work better, for both story and production requirements, in the second season.

Given that I'd never heard of it either until it was found in JMS's storage facility, my speculation is that because it was entirely a 'spec' script rather than an assigned story, it never appeared in any of the lists of possible stories that JMS had planned or given assignments for.

Yes, there is a volume 2 planned. I don't have information as to when and I'm not able to give any information as to the contents.

Jan
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Last edited by Jan; April 14th 11 at 04:14. Reason: Wrong page count
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Old April 14th 11, 13:19   #4
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Re: Crusade: Other Voices - Vol. 1

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Don't know if you mean you've been burned by Cafe Press or if you were somehow dissatisfied with a book put out by the B5 scripts team. If the latter, you should email help@babylon5scripts.com to let them know. Their customer service is legendary. Note that while CP is the fulfillment company, the publisher is Publishing 180. There's also an unconditional 30-day refund guarantee.

It's a script. Full length (43 pages), and I've seen a document that showed the original placement before JMS decided that it would work better, for both story and production requirements, in the second season.

Given that I'd never heard of it either until it was found in JMS's storage facility, my speculation is that because it was entirely a 'spec' script rather than an assigned story, it never appeared in any of the lists of possible stories that JMS had planned or given assignments for.

Yes, there is a volume 2 planned. I don't have information as to when and I'm not able to give any information as to the contents.

Jan
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I guess I was burned by Publishing 180, not Cafe Press. My criticism of them is hereby rescinded. It was more than a year ago, though, so no point in complaining. Thanks for clearing that stuff up.
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Old April 14th 11, 13:43   #5
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Re: Crusade: Other Voices - Vol. 1

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I guess I was burned by Publishing 180, not Cafe Press. My criticism of them is hereby rescinded. It was more than a year ago, though, so no point in complaining. Thanks for clearing that stuff up.
Whatever or whenever it was, I really urge you to let them know. Really. If they don't know about it, they can't make it right and I *know* that the mandate is now and always has been to do whatever they can to make the customer happy.

Jan
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Old April 15th 11, 04:14   #6
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Re: Crusade: Other Voices - Vol. 1

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Whatever or whenever it was, I really urge you to let them know. Really. If they don't know about it, they can't make it right and I *know* that the mandate is now and always has been to do whatever they can to make the customer happy.

Jan
Apparently my feelings have soured over the years. I just re-read my review of the book here,

http://www.republibot.com/content/bo...e-nazzaro-2010

and while I'm clearly disappointed in the book, advertising, experience, cost, and what-all, I clearly don't feel "Burned" at the time. Definitely I felt mislead, but I took more responsibility for that at the time (Based on the review) than I did this week. Curious. Basically, I think I'm a soreheaded old crank who eventually takes minor speedbumps and turns them into massive travails.

Ignore me.

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Old April 15th 11, 05:10   #7
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Re: Crusade: Other Voices - Vol. 1

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan View Post

Whatever or whenever it was, I really urge you to let them know. Really. If they don't know about it, they can't make it right and I *know* that the mandate is now and always has been to do whatever they can to make the customer happy.

Jan
Apparently my feelings have soured over the years. I just re-read my review of the book here,

http://www.republibot.com/content/bo...e-nazzaro-2010
I disagree with "Firefly was a much better show, though." from your review. "Crusade" was/is definitely more my kind of show.
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Max Eilerson: "The story of my life. I finally find a city like this, intact, deserted for ten thousand years. Probably contains hundreds of patents that I could exploit and I'm going to die. I can appreciate dramatic irony as much as the next person, but this is pushing it a bit."
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Old April 15th 11, 16:39   #8
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Re: Crusade: Other Voices - Vol. 1

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I disagree with "Firefly was a much better show, though." from your review. "Crusade" was/is definitely more my kind of show.
A matter of taste, I guess.

My problem with Crusade at the time was that it felt a bit derivative of Trek. My immediate impression was that it was JMS trying to do Trek better than Trek did, which, of course, he did. I was a little let down by it because it wasn't the watershed that B5 was. I have faith that it would have become that, but it started out feeling too familiar.

Firefly felt new and exciting, very personable cast, neat direction, neat look, lots of new spins on old tropes. Just making them civilians was a huge shift. It grabbed me the instant I saw it.
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Old April 15th 11, 20:23   #9
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Re: Crusade: Other Voices - Vol. 1

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I disagree with "Firefly was a much better show, though." from your review. "Crusade" was/is definitely more my kind of show.
A matter of taste, I guess.

My problem with Crusade at the time was that it felt a bit derivative of Trek. My immediate impression was that it was JMS trying to do Trek better than Trek did, which, of course, he did. I was a little let down by it because it wasn't the watershed that B5 was. I have faith that it would have become that, but it started out feeling too familiar.
??? Because it was a road show, one where the ship went from place to place every week? That's just a superficial similarity to all Trek except DS9. I saw Crusade through my thoroughly-accustomed-to-B5 eyes, and so Crusade didn't remind me of Trek. See, I've thoroughly divorced myself from Trek and don't carry that baggage with me. When I watch B5 and Crusade, Trek, anythingTrek, is absolutely the farthest thing from my thoughts. When I watch B5 and Crusade I'm IN the B5 universe, and Trek does not exist.


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Firefly felt new and exciting, very personable cast, neat direction, neat look, lots of new spins on old tropes. Just making them civilians was a huge shift. It grabbed me the instant I saw it.
I almost dropped it the instant I saw it ("The Train Job"). Firefly initially felt like a morph of a traditional western and "Wild Wild West," scooped up off the planet and put in space, complete with twangy music, being written by people who had little grasp of science, and a phobia of including aliens (the "only humans" edict), and that was a turnoff. What made it watchable for me was the likeable cast, the comedy and the banter.
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"Crusade" (1999) - "War Zone"
Max Eilerson: "The story of my life. I finally find a city like this, intact, deserted for ten thousand years. Probably contains hundreds of patents that I could exploit and I'm going to die. I can appreciate dramatic irony as much as the next person, but this is pushing it a bit."
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Old April 15th 11, 23:21   #10
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Re: Crusade: Other Voices - Vol. 1

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??? Because it was a road show, one where the ship went from place to place every week? That's just a superficial similarity to all Trek except DS9. I saw Crusade through my thoroughly-accustomed-to-B5 eyes, and so Crusade didn't remind me of Trek. See, I've thoroughly divorced myself from Trek and don't carry that baggage with me. When I watch B5 and Crusade, Trek, anythingTrek, is absolutely the farthest thing from my thoughts. When I watch B5 and Crusade I'm IN the B5 universe, and Trek does not exist.
Oh, believe you me, Brother, I'm *not* a Trekie. I'm fully aware of the exigencies of picaresque storytelling, and its long history prior to that stupid franchise. I've got no love for Trek. No real hate, either, I just think it's boring and kind of stupid. (Well, TNG and on was stupid). That said, shows can and do deliberately rip off previous shows formats: Man From Atlantis, year 2 of Space: 1999, both deliberately ripped off TOS. SeaQuest DSV deliberately ripped off TNG.

I do not mean to imply that Crusade *WAS* a ripoff of Trek, simply that it wasn't the watershed that B5 was, and that it felt rather derivative. Ship-based planet-of-the-week show, most of the crew were ciphers, bland dentist office sets, ridiculous uniforms, it felt like they were trying to un-do a lot of what B5 had done. I have no doubt that it would have gotten better, but: while it was on, it just never grabbed me.



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I almost dropped it the instant I saw it ("The Train Job"). Firefly initially felt like a morph of a traditional western and "Wild Wild West," scooped up off the planet and put in space, complete with twangy music, being written by people who had little grasp of science, and a phobia of including aliens (the "only humans" edict), and that was a turnoff. What made it watchable for me was the likeable cast, the comedy and the banter.
[/QUOTE]

Well, most of the country felt like you, so who am I to say you're wrong? A lot of people don't want peanut butter in their chocolate, and a lot of people don't want cowboys in their SF. As for me: I liked it.

As to the "Only Humans" thing, why do you NEED to have aliens in an SF show? I'm not saying you shouldn't ever do it, but at the time the show came out, aliens had become an accepted cliche of TVSF, and most of 'em weren't very good ("We are the Poets of Planet Poetlon P, all our species are poets, as denoted by this prosthetic forehead" or "We are a race of warriors, entirely, and hence none of us are farmers, yet somehow we continue not to starve.") As JMS once said, (Paraphrasing) 'Trek spends so much time trying to find the humanity of the aliens that they never bother to develop the humanity of the humans.'

Leaving aliens out of Firefly and the new BSG and Lost was a good thing, but it has become a bit of a contracliche in the years since.
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