B5TV.COM. Babylon 5 forums Babylon 5 message for the fans from Claudia Christian Babylon 5

Go Back   B5TV.COM > Babylon 5, Crusade and Rangers > B5.world

View Poll Results: Atonement
A -- Excellent 25 89.29%
B -- Good 3 10.71%
C -- Average 0 0%
D -- Poor 0 0%
F -- Failure 0 0%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 29th 06, 02:03   #1
vacantlook
Moderator
 
vacantlook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,891
EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat

Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for No Surrender, No Retreat
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for No Surrender, No Retreat
vacantlook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th 06, 12:17   #2
Mike G
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat

One of my favorites of the whole show for several reasons. It manages to be a heavy arc episode, but at the same time its not so complicated that you can't jump right in. Its refreshing and a lot more interesting to see a big space battle where the goal isn't to wipe out the enemy fleet, but is to get them to see your point of view. It also doesn't hurt that the special effects kicked ass in this one too.

The scene in G'kar's quarters with Londo was amazing, and one of my favorites between them. It was somewhat of a role reversal in that Londo was being the serious one for the most part, while G'kar was more mocking and insulting.

There are a lot of things that come together and work very well in this episode. I give it an A.
  Reply With Quote
Old June 30th 06, 18:57   #3
Boxie
Telepath
 
Boxie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Valley of the Sun
Posts: 547
Send a message via MSN to Boxie Send a message via Yahoo to Boxie
Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat

I loved this episode, it's one of my favorites! I love the way it written, the effects, and the performances...everyone was just excellent. I especially liked the way Bruce played this one. He is soooo sexy when he takes charge! He's usually just cute, and I prefer the hair a little longer... but ooooh baaaby!

Did I mention that I liked the story, too? I really did!!
Boxie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st 06, 19:42   #4
RW7427
Moderator
 
RW7427's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: NE of Cleveland, OH
Posts: 46,206
Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat

All thumbs up!
RW7427 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th 08, 00:59   #5
Elipsis
Commander
 
Elipsis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 168
Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat

Obviously a heavy episode, I wouldn't have like it if they didn't approach the killing of Earthforce officers with the appropriate gravity, but they did.

I gave it an A, but can someone tell me how a whitestar gets destroyed by an Earthforce ship?
Elipsis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th 08, 11:54   #6
mattikake
Ranger
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 65
Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat

^ I don't think there has been any indication that the lasers on EAS destroyers are not powerful enough to do this. They are tech the Narn sold humans during the Earth-Minbari war (though I can't remember where I read/saw/interpreted that bit!). And 3 Narn cruisers were able to combine their Laser firepower to disable a Shadow vessel...

A+ defintely. One of my top 10 episodes. Story, action, tactics and all the usual requirements including a great LonKar scene.
__________________
Complexity is only simplicity multiplied. You can understand anything you choose. All you have to do is try. This singular thing is what sets apart the greatest minds, the idealists and the visionaries that have shaped the world you live in, from the endless hordes of mundanes who stopped trying from a very early age...
mattikake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th 08, 13:33   #7
Galahad
First One
 
Galahad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Alcester, Warwickshire, UK
Posts: 3,779
Send a message via MSN to Galahad Send a message via Yahoo to Galahad Send a message via Skype™ to Galahad
Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat

You also have to remember that Sheridan was aiming to win the battle to a different set of criteria to the Earthforce fleet.

1) He wanted wavering Earthforce ships to sign on with him
2) He wanted enemy ships to surrender and be handed over to the authorities.
3) He needed to continually disprove any notion that he was an enemy of Earth itself.

Therefore if he'd have gone full tilt with the whitestars and gone out of his way to destroy the hardcore Clarke vessels, he'd have probably eliminated any hope of winning round the other ships.

Clarke's ships did not have that moral predicament and had no reason to hesitate in "blowing him out of the sky".

Much more importantly, if I recall... the Captain of the EAS Furies - Stephanie Eckland... was rather hot. She didn't get any speaking lines though alas... and i can't find any screen caps etc.
__________________
We live for The One, we die for The One

"We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

Visit NiCK'S SANCTUARY
Galahad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th 08, 12:22   #8
dreamer
Ranger
 
dreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Finland
Posts: 95
Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat

I'm in the process of watching the series... again, and this truly was a wonderful episode. Great Maker that I love the scene at the bar counter when G'Kar comes there and has the drink with Londo and how Londo takes his glass afterwards and puts it next to his own. The music just makes this for me and I notice myself swallowing back my tears every time I see the scene.

Few episodes back there was Rumours, Bargains and Lies, and I think it's one of the best episodes on the show because it's funny and doubles as a detective story for the viewers. I enjoyed tremendously putting the pieces together of what Sheridan was doing. Simply brilliant idea.

Kudos JMS, again and forever.
dreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th 10, 20:11   #9
Estelyn
Commander
 
Estelyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 134
Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat

I like how the episode begins, almost like a prelude: the military sound of drums, which has been used in similar situations before to great effect, combined with the preparation of the war room and Sheridan marching there through the corridors. I also enjoy seeing how Lt. Corwin is shown taking on greater responsibility - I like that characters can grow and change in this show.

Susan's classic line: "Trust Ivanova, trust yourself, anyone else, shoot 'em." Didn't she say something like that earlier in the series?

I like the tactics discussion, with the good ideas about fooling Earth forces into thinking they would be attacking elsewhere first.

The Londo/G'Kar scene is wonderful! I can't help feeling for Londo when he tries to express his feelings about the past, only to have his thanks and respect rejected. He obviously truly regrets his actions, but G'Kar is not interested in forgiving him and turns down his gesture of peace. But he too is capable of growth and change, as we see in the final scene between the two of them. Now it's Londo who's showing humility...

I agree that it's good to see that Sheridan isn't fighting his own people lightly, giving them a chance to back down peacefully. The story is well constructed in that the captains of the various ships react differently - they don't all flock to his side with flying colours. The variations on mutiny are interesting, with the clear call to activate one's own conscience, not just to follow orders because they come from above.

Above all, I like the statement that it's not a victory, just a mission objective achieved. There's no jubilation because the losses are tragic. Sheridan says the voters will decide who's right or wrong; that may sound very democratic, but are we sure that voters make correct decisions? Where would they get the information needed to do so?

And finally, we see Garibaldi leaving the station - has Edgars called him, or is he breaking with it at his own initiative, for his own reasons?
__________________
'The road goes ever on and on...' (JRRT)
Estelyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th 10, 16:19   #10
vacantlook
Moderator
 
vacantlook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,891
Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat

Quote:
Susan's classic line: "Trust Ivanova, trust yourself, anyone else, shoot 'em." Didn't she say something like that earlier in the series?
The earlier statement that you're thinking of might be the "Babylon 5 mantra."

"Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is god. And if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out."

It's from season one's A Voice In The Wilderness.
vacantlook is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2008 B5TV.COM