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View Poll Results: Hunter, Prey
A -- Excellent 18 54.55%
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Old May 12th 08, 03:32   #41
Garovorkin
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Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations

Confessions and Lamentations, as episodes go it was real downer. The Markan who was dr Franklins mentor , infecting himself sacrificing himself to help chart the course of the disease and give his people hope and the sad irony was that his sacrifice was for nothing in the end. Dr franklin finding a treatment to late to save the Markans on the station. The government of the Markans choose to stick their heads in the sand rather then deal with the problem for fear of being turned out of office. yeah they sound a lot like us don't they.
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Old May 12th 08, 13:59   #42
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Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations

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Well, how do we know that Delenn represents the "average" Minbari?
Yes Delenn is not the typical Minbari.They are usually not interested in the problems of other races.

For example Shakiri from "Moments Of Transition" wouldn't do what she did, but Draal would do it the same way he replaced Varn in the Great Machine.Maybe it's a matter of personality.
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Old May 13th 08, 11:53   #43
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Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations

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JMS said at the time that it wasn't an AIDS allegory, but based it on what happened with rhe Black Death. But with the way AIDS is wreaking havoc across Africa, and the way people there are seem to be ignorant of it, maybe its becoming more and more of an AIDS allegory. I don't know, just a thought.
The reason JMS compares it to the Black Death is the atheists take on blind faith that the disease was a punishment from god and only the "clean" and repentant would be selected for survival. Huddling together in mass penitence of course only makes such in infectious disease spread faster and does nothing towards finding a cure. A direct sci-fi parable to the Black Death.

The AIDS issue isn't so much about ignorance or a willingness not to believe what's happening infront of your own eyes, it's more about the facilities to actually DO something about it.

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I guess I just didn't like the subject material. The blind religious faith of the Markab annoyed me. I guess this is why I hated "Believers" too. I have a low tolerance for people who blindly let religion dictate their choices in life.
So do I, and I loved this episode (gave it an A btw) for exactly this reason. Believers was plain annoying, although very convincing (if the kids parents annoyed you then the ep probably hit the nail spot-on), but CaL was much more in-your-face and devastating to an entire civilisation. Kinda what can happen if you persist with blind fatih even with evidence everywhere and even the technology to do something about it - it's what you believe, your state of mind, that matters most. All religious people should be made to watch this episode as an important message by example...

It's the first hard-hitting ep of B5 where you get to see an entire race die as a hint of the lack of mercy (and realism) that is to come.
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Old May 14th 08, 01:37   #44
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Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations

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The reason JMS compares it to the Black Death is the atheists take on blind faith that the disease was a punishment from god and only the "clean" and repentant would be selected for survival.
As an atheist, who doesn't take anything on "blind faith," or believe in "punishment from god," I kinda think you misspoke...
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Old May 14th 08, 06:19   #45
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Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations

I kind of wondered about that, too. I assume he meant "theists".
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Old May 14th 08, 07:07   #46
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Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations

As would I.
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Old May 14th 08, 13:30   #47
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Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations

Sorry I meant the whole episode is the atheists telling of the story (of the insanity) of the blind faith in the face of *a* Black Death type disease.

Probably easier just to read it as "theist" though!
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Old May 14th 08, 13:54   #48
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Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations

If this had been a typical Trek episode Dr Franklin would have found a cure, saved his Markan friend and mentor(a character that i genuinely liked) and the whole Markan race. But the episode illustrates that sometimes the calvary arrives to late to save the situation. Sometimes hope does fail and thats one of life's unfortunate truth of true of life, the Heroes don't and can't win every battle.

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Old August 29th 10, 22:08   #49
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Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations

I had similar thoughts - in almost every other TV show, the cavalry would have arrived to save the day, i.e. Dr. Franklin would have found the cure on time. The fact that he got a clue too late for it to help is what makes this episode special. And the fact that it prompted discussion of the religious aspects testifies to its effectiveness!

The "too late" reminds me of the episode where the information on the President's planned assassination doesn't reach his ship in time to warn him.

Introducing a Markab child to the plot made the tragedy even more moving and visible. At one point, we see through the child's eyes by way of the camera angle.

Interesting to see how the catastrophe promotes the relationship between Delenn and Sheridan. At the beginning, it's all formalized in the ritual meal; in the end, what really matters is life, death, love and compassion. I do like her reference to meeting again in a place where no *shadows* fall. One detail I also noticed was her story about being lost as a child and finding refuge in a temple. Who is the figure she sees? His mention of "my little ones" sounds very like Jesus, speaking of children being allowed to come to him. That doesn't sound like Valen, and he wouldn't have been around during her childhood anyway. Are there Minbari gods?
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Old September 8th 10, 17:48   #50
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Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations

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Who is the figure she sees? His mention of "my little ones" sounds very like Jesus, speaking of children being allowed to come to him. That doesn't sound like Valen, and he wouldn't have been around during her childhood anyway. Are there Minbari gods?
Pretty sure that's supposed to be Valen. I believe Sinclair has some similar lines later in the show. And we don't know what appearances Valen has made over the years - after all, he just vanished from existence like Sheridan does later. Joe mentioned that Delenn goes on a quest to find Valen after seeing him near the end of her life as well (though no one else believes it.)
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