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Old March 9th 10, 16:16   #1
GKarsEye
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Comic book basis of Vorlon / Shadow conflict

Hey look at me, starting a thread in this forum...

Yesterday I was having this conversation about the show Lost and I was comparing the Jacob / vs his enemy conflict as looking like Vorlons vs Shadow and was ranting about how Lost = Babylon 5 (but not as good, natch) and then had to point out that B5 didn't come up with the idea of two big powers in ideological conflict using everyone else as pawns (Cold War, etc), and remember reading once that there was some comic book (or novel? but I'm pretty sure it was a comic book series) that had the same thing and JMS said it was the most direct and obvious influence to B5's thing.

What was that comic book or novel?
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Old March 9th 10, 18:14   #2
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Re: Comic book basis of Vorlon / Shadow conflict

All I'm coming up with is Babylonian mythology, Marduk (order) vs. Tiamat (chaos). Sorry.
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Old March 9th 10, 18:15   #3
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Re: Comic book basis of Vorlon / Shadow conflict

i don't know, but i was having a similar conversation at the weekend, and someone actually said babylon 5 sucks because it's trying to be too serious. really? he then said new BSG was cool because it was serious and DS9 rocked because it didn't take itslef too seriously, sadly i was locked in a house tanked up on booze (not a big drinker anymore but i went through a case there or thereabouts on saturday) with a bunch of B5 haters.
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Old March 9th 10, 19:37   #4
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Re: Comic book basis of Vorlon / Shadow conflict

I don't remember seeing anything about a comic series that was a big influence on B5, but I do remember JMS writing about how he's been influenced in general by epic sci fi novels like Lensman and the Foundation Trilogy.

But there is an excellent comic series from the 80's and early 90's called Dreadstar, about a group of rebels trying to stop a 200 year-old galactic war between two superpowers. It has tons of similarities with B5, including a scene where the hero orders some ancient and powerful beings to leave the galaxy. Dreadstar and B5 are my two sci fi favorites, as are their writers.

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Old March 9th 10, 22:12   #5
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Re: Comic book basis of Vorlon / Shadow conflict

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Originally Posted by Raw Shark View Post
I don't remember seeing anything about a comic series that was a big influence on B5, but I do remember JMS writing about how he's been influenced in general by epic sci fi novels like Lensman and the Foundation Trilogy.

But there is an excellent comic series from the 80's and early 90's called Dreadstar, about a group of rebels trying to stop a 200 year-old galactic war between two superpowers. It has tons of similarities with B5, including a scene where the hero orders some ancient and powerful beings to leave the galaxy. Dreadstar and B5 are my two sci fi favorites, as are their writers.

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I think you're right- Dreadstar, that must have been it. Thanks!
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Old March 9th 10, 23:21   #6
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Re: Comic book basis of Vorlon / Shadow conflict

You're welcome. Did JMS really say something about Dreadstar being an influence? I know he's mentioned his love for DC comics, and that he wrote a script for a Grimjack movie, another killer comic. Not sure what other comics he's discussed.

Another big similarity with Dreadstar is the tendency of governments to do whatever they think is in their interest, namely making war, while innocent beings get crushed underfoot and exterminated by the billions. That was the first comic I ever read, when I was ten. I've tried to find other sci fi comics that are as good, but never had any luck. Sci fi, mind you. Grimjack I always thought of as really dark fantasy.

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Old March 10th 10, 02:28   #7
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Re: Comic book basis of Vorlon / Shadow conflict

Dreadstar was done by Jim Starlin. I'm a big fan of his, and Dreadstar. There are some similarities to B5, but I'd say they are slight.
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Old March 10th 10, 14:14   #8
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Re: Comic book basis of Vorlon / Shadow conflict

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Originally Posted by Raw Shark View Post
You're welcome. Did JMS really say something about Dreadstar being an influence? I know he's mentioned his love for DC comics, and that he wrote a script for a Grimjack movie, another killer comic. Not sure what other comics he's discussed.

Another big similarity with Dreadstar is the tendency of governments to do whatever they think is in their interest, namely making war, while innocent beings get crushed underfoot and exterminated by the billions. That was the first comic I ever read, when I was ten. I've tried to find other sci fi comics that are as good, but never had any luck. Sci fi, mind you. Grimjack I always thought of as really dark fantasy.

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Re: JMS citing Dreadstar, that is the way I remember it at least. Certainly I could be wrong so I guess you shouldn't take my word for it because I can't point to it on record. It's possible I read that but it wasn't true, or that I misremembered it (like maybe someone thought it seemed like a natural influence and said something like 'JMS was influenced by Dreadstar' and I then I didn't remember it right). Who knows.

Either way I knew there was at least comic like that and my inner-geek just need to know that so that I could come off as a big smart-ass to all my fellow Lost-viewers.
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Old March 10th 10, 16:37   #9
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Re: Comic book basis of Vorlon / Shadow conflict

I can't help you with the comics, but (A) the Shadows/Vorlon similarites to Jacob/Evil Locke are something we've commented on a lot over at Republibot, and also (B) we've commented on the fairly obvious similarities to Zoroastrian theology, with Ahura Mazda vs. Angra Manu
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Old March 10th 10, 20:24   #10
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Re: Comic book basis of Vorlon / Shadow conflict

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I can't help you with the comics, but (A) the Shadows/Vorlon similarites to Jacob/Evil Locke are something we've commented on a lot over at Republibot, and also (B) we've commented on the fairly obvious similarities to Zoroastrian theology, with Ahura Mazda vs. Angra Manu
that sounds interesting, because the station was supposed to be a futuristic city of babylon.
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