B5TV.COM. Babylon 5 forums Babylon 5 message for the fans from Claudia Christian Babylon 5

Go Back   B5TV.COM > Babylon 5, Crusade and Rangers > B5.world

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 31st 09, 16:03   #31
B5_Obsessed
First One
 
B5_Obsessed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Orlando, FL USA
Posts: 1,933
Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by squish View Post
Omg I always thought of Tolkein as the worst example, given what one of my college english professors told me about him... He said he just wrote bit by bit. He got up to the introduction of Aragorn and had absolutely no idea where the story was going--no plan whatsoever--and a friend writer had told him that when you have nowhere to go, you just throw in a dark brooding character and go from there, so that's what he did! Tolkein actually said of Lord of the Rings "It's only a story" or "It's just a story" or something, about the people who would write theses analyzing its involved structure and depth and themes, he was amused that people got that much out of it since he didn't put all that into it.
I think that's true of anything, though. You rarely know where a character is going when you start writing, but you figure it out along the way. The timing of the death of Kosh surprised JMS himself, and Marcus, who had been brought in for Season 3 to give us a swashbuckling "face" of the Rangers, conveniently fell into place as the one most likely to use the alien healing device that had been sitting in storage since Season 1.

Writing is synchronicity, serendipity, and just plain luck.
B5_Obsessed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4th 09, 23:29   #32
ryuu
Psi Cop
 
ryuu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 2,417
Send a message via AIM to ryuu Send a message via MSN to ryuu
Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?

i watch lots of anime, and those who say it's badly acted/dull, need to stop watching dubs, expecially those done by for kids. most animes have a well thought out/planned story as they come from manga which isn't in danger of being canceled every year, as it's cheap to produce. the bleach anime is over 200 episodes long, and while it has the odd filler episodes/serieses that is merely to account for the diferences in speed of action against comic (it takes 2 or 3 chapters of manga to fill one 30 minuite anime episode, and their both relesed weekly).
please don't dis anime if you've only seen the dubbed versions
__________________
Code:
          /\/\          r-.,
         (<  >)         |   \
   /\    \ '' /    /\   |    |\     /|     ||     |
  //\\   /\  /\   //\\  |   /  \   / |     ||     |
 /____\ /((\/))\ /____\ |,-'    \ /  |     ||     |
{/     Y(((())))Y     \}|',      Y   |     ||     |
       |((____))|       |  \     |   \     /\     /
       / /    \ \       |   \    |    \   /  \   /
       WW      WW       |    \   |     \_/    \_/
ryuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6th 09, 04:48   #33
GKarsEye
First One
 
GKarsEye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 16,754
Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?

I tried to watch Akira and... well I forgot what the other famous anime thing was, ghost something.... they were dubbed but that's not what made me lose interest. Because let's be honest- reading subtitles can be a pain in the ass.

Some genres are just not gonna connect with people...
__________________
"Most smart people cannot watch most TV, because it has generally been a condescending medium, explaining everything immediately, offering no ambiguities, and using dialogue that simplifies and mitigates against the idiosyncratic ways in which people in different worlds actually communicate. It eventually requires that characters from different places talk the same way as the viewer. This, of course, sucks." - David Simon
GKarsEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6th 09, 05:23   #34
hypatia
First One
 
hypatia's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 27,315
Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?

I actually liked "Ghost in the Shell" somewhat. Anime is awfully violent for me, and a bit predictable sometimes. I likely haven't seen the best of it, I admit. But I"ll take "The Seven Samauri" or most any Kurosawa movie any day.

Just my opinion, of course. But the anime I've seen look a lot like video games to me.
__________________
"If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal."
-- Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot
hypatia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6th 09, 13:24   #35
ryuu
Psi Cop
 
ryuu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 2,417
Send a message via AIM to ryuu Send a message via MSN to ryuu
Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?

anime can look like computer games, but that's cause most modern anime is CG and anything that isn't live action will look like a computer game
__________________
Code:
          /\/\          r-.,
         (<  >)         |   \
   /\    \ '' /    /\   |    |\     /|     ||     |
  //\\   /\  /\   //\\  |   /  \   / |     ||     |
 /____\ /((\/))\ /____\ |,-'    \ /  |     ||     |
{/     Y(((())))Y     \}|',      Y   |     ||     |
       |((____))|       |  \     |   \     /\     /
       / /    \ \       |   \    |    \   /  \   /
       WW      WW       |    \   |     \_/    \_/
ryuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6th 09, 14:14   #36
hypatia
First One
 
hypatia's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 27,315
Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?

Actually, I wouldn't tend to agree with you there. Disney's "Snow White" or even "Shrek" doesn't look like a video game to me. And I was speaking about the action, actually. Nothing wrong with it, it just was not much to my taste. It did, however, bring up a topic or two that were interesting which is why I didn't say I didn't like it at all.

I admit, that the cop team science fiction story base is one that I think has been terrily overused in sci-fi.
__________________
"If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal."
-- Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot
hypatia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 13th 09, 13:48   #37
Lyta's Shadow
Lurker
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NW UK
Posts: 27
Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?

I think an example of a show axed before it had a chance to achieve what it wanted is Dark Skies. That was to have a five year structure and had ambitious plans. The future glimpse in Ancient Future always reminded me of the similar visions that cropped up in B5 every now and then. The series bible for DS was recently published online, but was taken down quickly. It seems there was a structure outlined for the whole show. A great shame it was never produced because it's one of my all time favourites.
Lyta's Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th 09, 00:22   #38
Republibot 3.0
Psi Cop
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,540
Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?

I'd say, arguably, that there are several shows that do. Most obviously, and popularly, is "Lost," which had a conceptual beginning, middle, and end when they started out, and although they are guilty of winging it quite a bit when actors decide to leave or when the network told 'em to stretch it out in the 2nd season, I do think it's comparable to B5. I don't think it's as good, but I think it's in the ballpark.

Others have pointed it out, but I think "Avatar: The Last Airbender" is every bit as epic, heroic, sprawling and noble as B5, and beautifully animated. I love that it's aimed at kids, but doesn't really talk down to 'em. I'd also say the first two seasons of "Justice League Unlimited" were nearly as good. Of course that brings up the point of the DCAU as a whole, which, if we assume it to be one series (Which it isn't) and internally consistent (Which it mostly is) ends up being....well, I dont' want to say it's better because it's nowhere near as focused, but it almost became like one series in its final iteration, you know, where they aggressively incorperated the history of all the shows in to one.

I'd probably mention Stargate SG1, which did it accidentally and simply by virtue of a very long run. It's nowhere near as noble nor as smart, nor as good, but by the end its plot structure was labrynthine.
Republibot 3.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd 09, 11:53   #39
Dangerousapple
Ranger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 31
Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?

I too love B5 for its commitment to one planned out arc – it allowed for one of the most epic and ambitious stories on television. But I’d also like to add a criticism to that praise. Because of its pre-planned nature, upon re-watching the series there are points where you feel that events aren’t happening organicly, but because the structure of the story needed them to.

The most obvious moments are when a actor left the show and a new character had to be created. Instead of being their own unique person, that charcter inherits the narrative burden of the previous character. For instance, it’s obvious Cahterine Sakai was set up to have the same fate as Sheridan’s wife. As it stands, were are left with foreshadowing in Sakai’s arc to events that eventually DID expire, but with the replacement character instead.

Again, this is only noticeble a second time around, but it is distracting and in some ways a disadvantage of creating a planned out arc: it can feel constructed instead of organic.

Last edited by Dangerousapple; November 23rd 09 at 13:24.
Dangerousapple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd 09, 12:35   #40
Galahad
First One
 
Galahad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Alcester, Warwickshire, UK
Posts: 3,779
Send a message via MSN to Galahad Send a message via Yahoo to Galahad Send a message via Skype™ to Galahad
Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerousapple View Post
I too love B5 for its commitment to one planned out arc it allowed for one of the most epic and ambitious stories on television. But Id also like to add a criticism to that praise. Because of its pre-planned nature, upon re-watching the series there are points where you feel that events arent happening organicly, but because the structure of the story needed them to.
Ironically I think life itself sometimes works out that way.
__________________
We live for The One, we die for The One

"We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

Visit NiCK'S SANCTUARY
Galahad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
jms, plot, structure, writing

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 18:45.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2008 B5TV.COM