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View Poll Results: Ceremonies Of Light And Dark
A -- Excellent 25 86.21%
B -- Good 4 13.79%
C -- Average 0 0%
D -- Poor 0 0%
F -- Failure 0 0%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 23rd 07, 00:08   #11
hypatia
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Re: EpDis: War Without End Part Two

Yea. I think it is one of my favorite (if not my #1 favorite) of the arc-related/arc-fulfilling stories. It was... fantastic.

Could someone run that thing with the suit by me again? The One(s) and, uh, when and why the suit switched hands so frequently?

But basically, this was the perfect way to "maybe-you-could-almost-see-it-happening" time travel story work. It ain't something you will use every day, or even twice.

As far as the acceptance of his fate, I don't see that as much reasoning it out as it "feeling right". He always "felt" he had some hidden, possibly great, destiny, and you get the impression it always haunted him that he had no real idea what that was. But suddenly, it all came together. And I bet it didn't even take much self-debate before he decided what he "must" do.

Ah, did he make the ultimate sacrifice, or did he embark upon the ultimate adventure? I guess it's all how you look at it.

Anyway, yes, fantastic story, and truthfully the one that I'll always see as being the "real payoff" to the Babylon 5 story arc.
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Old October 23rd 07, 17:52   #12
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Re: EpDis: War Without End Part Two

Yep. Great bombshell for referring back and it was something you could guess. I suspected Sinclair was Valen long before Marcus summed it up. It starts you second-guessing every epsiode after that.

Best one for insistent skeptics who admit they were surprised and impressed by the referral back to 2 years ago. Babylon squared wasn't just a standalone episode.

And "the beginning of the story, the middle of the story and the end of the story, that makes up the next great story" kinda puts everyone in their place - that B5 is just one story the universe has to tell...
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Old October 24th 07, 00:39   #13
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Re: EpDis: War Without End Part Two

One thing that always confused me and seemed unresolved was the scene where Sinclair said to Deleen that it still all happened as he remembered

Was he not older then?How did he come back?As a human too.

Or have I just got stuff mixed up again
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Old October 24th 07, 14:23   #14
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Re: EpDis: War Without End Part Two

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhorse View Post
One thing that always confused me and seemed unresolved was the scene where Sinclair said to Deleen that it still all happened as he remembered

Was he not older then?How did he come back?As a human too.

Or have I just got stuff mixed up again

You've got stuff mixed up again.
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Old October 24th 07, 19:34   #15
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Re: EpDis: War Without End Part Two

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhorse View Post
One thing that always confused me and seemed unresolved was the scene where Sinclair said to Deleen that it still all happened as he remembered

Was he not older then?How did he come back?As a human too.

Or have I just got stuff mixed up again
Sinclair is referring to his attempt to warn Garibaldi to "watch his back" prior to the events of "Chrysalis". If he'd succesfully got word to Garibaldi, Santiago might never have been assassinated and the Earth Civil War might have been delayed or averted. This would mean that Earth would possibly be more actively involved in the coming Shadow War, against the Shadows. Also Catherine Sakai would in all likelihood not have ended up being sucked through the rift in sector 14. However it could have had disastrous implications too:
  • Sinclair never becomes Ranger One on Minbar, as he is never reassigned by Clarke.
  • Sheridan doesn't become commanding officer of Babylon 5 and never meets Delenn, nor has his critical encounter with Morden.
Losing those two important segments from history would severely interfere with the spacetime continuum which would prevent B4 going back in time, make the Shadows come back twice as strong. Delenn would never be born because Valen never existed... the Minbari culture would be entirely different... and the Earth minbari War probably never happened because the Minbari are both a fundamentally different and weaker culture in that alternative universe.

So it's a pretty good job Sinclair's good intentions failed tocome to fruition.

Obviously prior to Michael O'Hare leaving, that clip was going to reference bigger things that would have made a lot more sense, but you can't have your cake and eat it.

I remember seeing the the One's encounter with Sinclair from first time around... and I always believed that to be Sinclair as well. I thought JMS was making a double reference to Michelangelo's "Creation of Man" and the Oroubouros snake.
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Old October 26th 07, 01:59   #16
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Re: EpDis: War Without End Part Two

I was not thinking of the warning given .As I said I'm probably mistaken and my DVD's are lent out at this moment so I can't check it but I was sure you seen an older Sinclair talking to Deleen at some point.I thought it might of had something to do with his finding of Catherine and just of been another unused story arc.
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Extract from the Declaration of Arbroath, 1320.

"me and other folk were just tryin tae get the boot in and some other guy banjoed him"

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Old October 26th 07, 05:04   #17
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Re: EpDis: War Without End Part Two

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhorse View Post
I was not thinking of the warning given .As I said I'm probably mistaken and my DVD's are lent out at this moment so I can't check it but I was sure you seen an older Sinclair talking to Deleen at some point.I thought it might of had something to do with his finding of Catherine and just of been another unused story arc.


But he BECOMES older Sinclair in the middle of the episode and they explain why.


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Old October 26th 07, 09:41   #18
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Re: EpDis: War Without End Part Two

Quote:
Obviously prior to Michael O'Hare leaving, that clip was going to reference bigger things that would have made a lot more sense, but you can't have your cake and eat it.
I was hoping to get some information on this in Script Book vol. 7. Sadly, it contained none. And neither does the book with "Babylon Squared" in it. I'm waiting for volume 15, but I suppose that the outline will not mention such a small detail. Still, it's such details that I would have liked to see in the Script Books.
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Old November 23rd 07, 13:14   #19
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Re: EpDis: War Without End Part Two

I absolutely loved the character of Zatharus. Shame they had to leave him behind. Oh well, at least there are 9 more of him out there.
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Old November 23rd 07, 14:12   #20
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Re: EpDis: War Without End Part Two

And he/they're running for President!

Jan
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