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View Poll Results: Confessions And Lamentations
A -- Excellent 28 53.85%
B -- Good 16 30.77%
C -- Average 3 5.77%
D -- Poor 3 5.77%
F -- Failure 2 3.85%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 29th 07, 03:17   #51
KoshFan
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Re: EpDis: Comes The Inquisitor

The "Jack the Ripper" gimmick works fairly well, I thought, but it's really the acting -- and the concept of really testing your would-be messiahs -- that makes me love this one to pieces.
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Old August 29th 07, 04:07   #52
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Re: EpDis: Comes The Inquisitor

I really liked it, too. But at the same time, I have to agree with Maneth's point of view.

Usually that's the kind of trick I consider to be rather... cheap.

But he didn't do this kind of thing again. If JMS had, then it really would have been pretty pathetic.

But just this once, I allowed myself the guilty pleasure of enjoying it.
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Old August 29th 07, 04:14   #53
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Re: EpDis: Comes The Inquisitor

I think in other writer's hands, it would have been cheap, but jms pulled it off far better than most would have. I think most would have had it been Jack the Ripper for the sake of "Ooh, it's Jack the Ripper". But jms used him as a demonstration of what Sheridan and Delenn aren't: they aren't ego-driven World-Savers™. In this particular instance, and written in this particular way, it works for me. I can easily imagine it not working for me too, though, had the writing been different.
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Old August 29th 07, 04:20   #54
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Re: EpDis: Comes The Inquisitor

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Originally Posted by KoshFan View Post
The "Jack the Ripper" gimmick works fairly well, I thought, but it's really the acting --
...plus the writing, especially Sebastian's words when speaking about his experiences with the Vorlons, and that final "Jack" speech (which gives me goosebumps. ). I knew it was coming, but to hear Wayne's delivery and see that camera work...... <Brrrrr!> It just sends a chill. It's a combination of the writing, the acting and the camera work. Great stuff!
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Old August 29th 07, 04:22   #55
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Re: EpDis: Comes The Inquisitor

Indeed.

But different people like different things. Like so much of B5 this is either a favored episode for you, one one that didn't cut it for you.

At least his writing gets a response, eh?
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Old September 2nd 10, 20:28   #56
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Re: EpDis: Comes The Inquisitor

I find this episode almost unbearable. Having the race we think is good, the Vorlons, initiating the torture of an ally, is inexplicable. This is where first doubts come up as to the real nature of the Vorlons. Both they and Sebastian are sadistic - does the end justify the means? And do the Vorlons use him to keep their hands clean of the dirty work?

The whole interrogation and torture scenario reminded me of one of the best Star Trek NG shows, where Picard is interrogated by a Cardassian - a foe, not an ally.

I thought it was interesting that the lighting in Grey 19 was so similar to that of the Grey Council - where we last saw Delenn being expelled from the Nine.

The other thing that I noticed throughout the inquisition was the number of Bible references. The final quote was the most noticeable, of course, about "no greater love than to lay down your life for another", but there are others as well. Did anyone else think that Sheridan's body position when held captive had a remarkable similarity to a crucifixion position?

As to the second plot element - the elevator scene between Vir and G'Kar was excellently done! What a difficult situation to find yourself alone with your enemy at close quarters, an enemy to whom the greatest injustice has been done by your people. Both Vir's apology and G'Kar's reply were well written and well acted, moments of character development crucial to future episodes.
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Old September 2nd 10, 21:08   #57
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Re: EpDis: Comes The Inquisitor

I don't recall the name but JMS's theory about the identity of the Ripper was that it was a reverend. Part of the logic was that the murders stopped when that person emigrated to the States.

The fact that the Vorlon's morality was questionable at best had been with me ever since Kosh fragged Deathwalker. But when you look closely, you'll also see that sometimes our 'good guy' characters use an 'ends justify the means' excuse, too. They check private financial records, skirt the rules for telepaths regularly and indulge in other 'grey' behavior.

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Old September 8th 10, 16:54   #58
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Re: EpDis: Comes The Inquisitor

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I don't recall the name but JMS's theory about the identity of the Ripper was that it was a reverend.
Samuel Barnett.
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Old March 26th 11, 05:31   #59
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Re: EpDis: Comes The Inquisitor

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The fact that the Vorlon's morality was questionable at best had been with me ever since Kosh fragged Deathwalker.
Hmmm, I had no problem with that whatsoever. I figured they probably knew (telepathically, or through infiltrating the Wind Swords who harbored her, or just... the way they seem to know things, to be paying a lot more attention than they appear to sometimes) how the drug worked--the stuff Deathwalker revealed at the end, about it requiring the death of another to provide a key ingredient--and knew full well the implications that she described ("you will become us"). It would have set the Shadow agenda, writ large, even if Shadows weren't involved with her work or even her people (and who knows?). A literal, brutal, survival of the most ruthless. Very rarely if ever in those times, did the Vorlons pop out with a warship and expose themselves in that way--their interventions tended to be a lot more subtle than that. I can see why they chose to in this case, if that became the only way of stopping her invention from getting out into the larger galaxy. Indeed this move saved millions or billions of lives, as this was not an invention that "could be used for good or evil": the way it worked required murder. Such decisions, weighing one or a few lives against many, are made in war, too.

I think everyone watching in that room, rightly, gave a sigh of relief that the Vorlons did what needed to be done, and took the responsibility for doing so when politics, orders, greed for advantage, etc. impeded anyone else from doing it.

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Old March 26th 11, 14:36   #60
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Re: EpDis: Comes The Inquisitor

Just watched this one in my second time through the series. Oh yeah, this is definitely one of the best ones.

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I doubt very much whether the Vorlons believe any of that impure motive yields impure results stuff.
Well, I believe that. I mean, your motives are what guide your decisions, not just the great ones, but the small ones in between, that keep things together, and that lead to the next great decision. Doing the right thing is a continuous act, a journey if you will. It will determine the further direction of the results of your act, how you will use what you've built. They weren't destined to just fight the Shadows, but to build a lasting structure of peace afterwards.

A good decision for a bad motive is incidental. What follows from that is not guaranteed to be good. Once they started, Delenn and Sheridan had to see this through all the way, and had to be motivated by love of their fellow person at the gut level--a love that will be there whether it is seen and celebrated or totally unseen and unrewarded--to carry it through successfully, to be guided continuously in all their actions by that love. They are about to take on a great responsibility with the fate of all the peoples of the galaxy in the balance, for the side of "light"--they'd better be for real. There are many examples as bad (or worse) than Jack the Ripper, of people who've presumed for themselves such a task, without real love of their fellow people on that basic, gut level. "Without love, all my actions are meaningless" to sum up Paul's letter to the Corinthians. The test was brutal, sure, but for something like this, for the commission they had, it had to be. If they were the wrong kind of people, it would end in disaster. And I think they also had to know for themselves this danger, so they could be sure to keep this love at the center of their endeavors. It was a lesson for them as well as a test--and if Kosh already knew they were the right people, they still had to know, and know why, so they could stay so.

I like to think that at least Kosh among the Vorlons knew that the time of the first ones' supervision of the galaxy was coming to an end, or that it should. He told the Captain he must learn to "fight legends". Some other things he said and did seem to hint at this too, that he was attempting to prepare them for succession--and I think he forfeited his life knowing it would further this process along. So yeah, these people would stand for the side of "light", be the ones to take the lead, when they were gone. He wanted to be damned sure they would start it off with the best footing possible.
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