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View Poll Results: The Legend of the Rangers
A -- Excellent 4 9.30%
B -- Good 8 18.60%
C -- Average 20 46.51%
D -- Poor 10 23.26%
F -- Failure 1 2.33%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 18th 07, 16:01   #21
KoshN
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Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers

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Originally Posted by Telepath View Post
To comment on your arguments: I do not care for other people's opinion so much as others might do, so I don't care what's in last place.
I was going for more of a consensus, i.e. not just my opinion but that of hundreds or thousands of others.


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Originally Posted by raw_bean View Post
Craziness, craziness!
People voting LotR 'A', and In The Beginning 'F'! Are we in Bizzaro-world or something? Me am no confused!

I can't believe ItB has more 'Failure' votes than LotR, even if one of them was admitted as a joke!
Yeah, things are 180 degrees out of phase alright.




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Originally Posted by RMcD View Post
I think the figure that really says it all is:
Babylon 5: Arithmetic mean = 8.8 (1,605 votes)

I think that's about right - somehow none of the movies seemed to manage to rise as high as the standards that had already been set within the series itself. Partly I think it may just be that they came too late in the cycle - remember that with the exception of the Gathering, all of them were filmed after Sleeping in Light, and after the season 5 pickup, at which point B5 arguably didn't have anything left to prove.
And that JMS is better in loooong form storytelling, series over the course of years, not movies, at least as far as B5 is concerned. Maybe it's that as B5 fans, we're used to the long story and the short, encapsulated story of a movie in the B5 universe just doesn't do it for us anymore.



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Originally Posted by Sindatur View Post
It's SciFi channel's show. All their "Straight to DVD" stuff ends up playing on the network.
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Originally Posted by GaribaldisHair View Post
Yeah .. since they've paid for it already, why wouldn't they show it.
The Sci-Fi Channel itself is financing the Stargate SG-1 movies? That's why I asked if it was their reaction to fan uproar over the cancellation (like The Peacekeeper Wars was to Farscape), but nobody responded. I thoiught The Sci-Fi Channel just cancelled and was done with SG-1, and maybe NBC/Universal (the parent company) was coming through with money for the movies.

Stargate: Continuum (2008) (TV)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0929629/
Company credits:
Production Companies
Stargate SG-1 Production (II) Inc.
Distributors
Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (MGM) (2007) (USA) (DVD)
Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (MGM) (2007) (USA) (all media)

Stargate: The Ark of Truth (2008) (TV)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0942903/
Company credits:
Production Companies
Kawoosh! Productions VII
MGM Home Entertainment

...but since it's mentioned as "TV," I guess it'll be on The Sci-Fi Channel and it'll get added to the list of distributors.


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Originally Posted by GaribaldisHair View Post
And as far as the ItB stretching credulity to breaking point, I can see where that comes from but the problem is ItB is already loaded down with characters, and adding more would only confuse things ... not to mention probably stretch the budget to breaking point.

I am prepared to forgive the stretching because in all other respects I think it is a great piece of work.
I see the stretching credulity as a minor problem as far as ItB is concerned.



Quote:
And to get back on topic. LotR had some good ideas that were significantly undercooked, precisely because it was a backdoor pilot. If it had gone to series and these ideas had had the chance to be explored more fully then I think the movie would be looked back at more fondly. Sure it had some silly ones (the weapons thing!) but that would undoubtedly have disappeared come a series ... surely!
That's the problem. JMS has to learn to come out of the box and make s damned strong standalone movie, not banking on being able to fix the problems in the future, because if the problems stand out, bigtime, in the pilot, there's a good chance that there will BE no future. That's why I'm nervous when it comes to our banking the future of all things B5 on a single movie (TV or feature). That's not his strong suit.



Quote:
Unfortunately I never saw The Gathering as a standalone as it wasn't shown on UKTV until well into the run (possibly between S1 and S2 if memory serves). If I had, I am not convinced I would have much higher an opinion of it than I do of LotR. The Gathering (original version) is great in the context of leading into the series, but as a standalone it is fairly forgettable ,,, but without anything jaw-droppingly stupid.
Key words: ....but without anything jaw-droppingly stupid.
TLaDiS: "We do not retreat for any reason." a.k.a. Suicide as a matter of policy.
TLaDiS: the weapons system
TLaDiS: the idiotic, bad guy, flunkies.

The only thing that comes close to jaw-droppingly stupid in The Gathering, was the "zoo" scene (which was cut for the TNT version).
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Old April 18th 07, 16:10   #22
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Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers

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Originally Posted by KoshN View Post
The only thing that comes close to jaw-droppingly stupid in The Gathering, was the "zoo" scene (which was cut for the TNT version).
And at a push... frictionless Carnellian bedsheets.

Man am I glad that B5 didn't waste too much time inventing unseen races who provide gimicky technology. the Carnellian bedsheets wer one... but they didn't go on ad infinitum.

Presumable "frictionless" was an exaggeration if people weren't to be floating out of their beds and landing smack on the floor every night.
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Old April 18th 07, 16:26   #23
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Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers

Quote:
JMS has to learn to come out of the box and make s damned strong standalone movie, not banking on being able to fix the problems in the future, because if the problems stand out, bigtime, in the pilot, there's a good chance that there will BE no future. That's why I'm nervous when it comes to our banking the future of all things B5 on a single movie (TV or feature). That's not his strong suit.
That's true. As you say, JMS is great at long-term stories involving character changes and building tension.

Concerning LotR, the rule "never retreat from battle" is stupid alright, but it has occurred on earth in various traditions, and it's JMS' universe after all. Yet I do not think Sinclair would have created a rule as absurd as that... perhaps Minbari tradition corrupted his teachings, it happens (it already happened in the first war against the shadows, with that radical group mentioned In Valen's Name... I forgot its name). [EDIT: I seem to have forgot that Delenn was Entil'Zha for some time then... she could have changed such a rule. As things stand, it really seems stupid enough. Even suggesting that such a rule might make an enemy think twice before engaging ranger ships is a poor explanation, so... you're right. Not very logical.]

The weapons system: ditto. It's crap.

The bad guys: What was wrong about them? That they looked like executioners? I think they were hooded and their voice was modulated because there was not much terror underneath. I think there was a lot of fake involved... Sad that there was no series.

Well, tastes are different (and hundreds and thousands of different tastes won't change mine ) But since I now see your point with some obvious flaws of LotR, I can understand why you would classify it as a failure. Yet I still think that the merits outweigh the flaws - and I still like it in comparison to other B5 feature films.

Last edited by Telepath; April 18th 07 at 16:48. Reason: change evaluation
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Old April 18th 07, 17:07   #24
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Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers

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Originally Posted by KoshN View Post
Well, they cancelled SG-1, so after these last 10 episodes (205-214) air, all that's left is SG-A of the Stargate franchise on The Sci-Fi Channel.

You can't count that against them. That show was on the air for TEN YEARS. I don't think I have ever seen a Sci-Fi show run close to that long (in the US, so hold off on the Doctor Who stuff please).


And frankly, they should have pulled the plug a while ago. Their series "reboot" with the new enemy and new team isn't working as well as it should. Hell, it took them a long time to go almost no where with their first enemy. The show as a whole never really impressed me that much, so I was very surprised it lasted 10 seasons.

Can't knock SciFi channel for cancelling SG1 though, it had more than its run, and there are possibly a couple movies to come. Also, Stargate Atlantis (which is MUCH better IMO) is still running strong.

But Kirbu is right. Back when Rangers aired, SciFi wanted to get away from Aliens and Sci Fi. Well gee whiz. When they got back to their roots their ratings went up again. Imagine that!
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Old April 18th 07, 22:36   #25
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Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers

The Scifi channel deserves the bad rep. Stargate SG-1 was cancelled prematurely. The Ori story arc should have lasted at least three seasons. Also, scifi canceled 'farscape' after season 4 after they declared an unprecedented 2-year renewal after season 3. They flat-out reneged, lied, cheated...whatever you want to call it. Their judgment is incredibly poor regarding programing.

Legend of the Rangers was a good 'concept' that was badly executed. I was disappointed with the filming and the shallow story. It was like they rushed a good core idea but didn't care to fill it out or interweave it into the B5 canon. The weapons system wasn't well thought. A virtual interface is a good idea, but someone squirming around against a green screen then showing the ship shooting doesn't cut it. There has to be a correlation between the gunner's movements and the weapons fire. There was absolutely none.

As for the Hand, it felt like a copout rather than an extention of the B5 story. The Ori in stargate made sense, the Hand didn't. I like B5 and the rangers are a good, no, great platform for a series, but somewhere along the line it got reallllllllllly screwed up.

Oh, and stargate didn't originate at scifi. It came from showtime after a five-year run there. Scifi has only had it for five seasons.

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Old April 19th 07, 23:41   #26
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Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers

What? I did a big detailed reply to Galahad, Telepath and Recoil, and it's "Poof!" gone????? It was there at around Noon when I left.
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Old April 20th 07, 00:08   #27
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Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers

"We live for The One, we die for The One, but we don't die stupidly"

F-
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Old April 20th 07, 01:25   #28
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Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers

I have to confess, that line made me cringe when I heard it.

Reminds me a bit, now, of a rather notable line from another film:
"Because all you of Earth are idiots. Stupid! Stupid!"

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Old April 20th 07, 03:01   #29
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Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers

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Originally Posted by Recoil View Post
"We live for The One, we die for The One, but we don't die stupidly"

F-
And that's one of the better lines from TLaDiS.
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Max Eilerson: "The story of my life. I finally find a city like this, intact, deserted for ten thousand years. Probably contains hundreds of patents that I could exploit and I'm going to die. I can appreciate dramatic irony as much as the next person, but this is pushing it a bit."
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Old April 20th 07, 03:02   #30
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Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers

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Originally Posted by Galahad View Post
And at a push... frictionless Carnellian bedsheets.

Man am I glad that B5 didn't waste too much time inventing unseen races who provide gimicky technology. the Carnellian bedsheets wer one... but they didn't go on ad infinitum.

Presumable "frictionless" was an exaggeration if people weren't to be floating out of their beds and landing smack on the floor every night.

Oh, it was a throwaway line. No big deal.
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Max Eilerson: "The story of my life. I finally find a city like this, intact, deserted for ten thousand years. Probably contains hundreds of patents that I could exploit and I'm going to die. I can appreciate dramatic irony as much as the next person, but this is pushing it a bit."
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