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View Poll Results: Rising Star
A -- Excellent 7 28.00%
B -- Good 7 28.00%
C -- Average 4 16.00%
D -- Poor 5 20.00%
F -- Failure 2 8.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 5th 06, 18:59   #11
Jan
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Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery

I'm with you, Hypatia. Why do people seem to think that we've met every race in the b5 universe? There was the same reaction to the baddies in Rangers. To quote a wise woman from Trek, "it's a big galaxy, Mr. Scott".

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Old October 5th 06, 20:14   #12
PillowRock
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Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery

Yes, it's a big galaxy and we (the known "younger races" of the B5 universe) certainly don't know everything that there is in it ......... But ........

There is the question of where Babylon 5 (the station, not the show) is. The station is not anywhere near any of the frontiers of known and charted space, where you would expect to make the vast majority of first contacts. The station was specifically built in a location where it would in neutral territory between the major powers, where proximity wouldn't give one race or group of races and advantage in the diplomacy going on there (any more than could possibly be helped).

Therefore, a new race coming in should have had to have passed through the territory of at least one of the known spacefaring powers to get to B5. Doing so (or even getting close) unnoticed and unchallenged seems unlikely at best.

Now one might postulate that the new race might possibly have bypassed other populated areas (whether intentionally or accidentally) by using unknown (to the "known" races) and superior hyperspace navigation techniques / technology, thereby arriving at B5 without having been spotted in hyperspace by ship traffic that was sticking to the routes implied in following the established beacons. The various races of First Ones had certainly demonstrated that this was possible. The problem with that is that what we do see of this race's capabilities in this episode certainly does not seem to indicate they are significantly more advanced than, say, the Centauri or Minbari ... who do still rely on the beacons.

The reason that the ep (as it stands) feels a bit unlikely to me isn't that there is this unknown race out there somewhere. It's that this first contact / strength test battle takes place at Babylon 5 and not somewhere less central to the known powers.

The only resistance free approach angle that I can think of would through what had been Vorlon space. I still see a problem with that option as well. If they had been a neighbor on the opposite side of the Vorlon Empire, then I would expect them to have had basically the same experiance with probing in that direction that Humans had ..... all exploratory ships disappear with all hands. For them to already be coming out the other side of the Vorlon Empire toward B5 so soon after the Vorlons had left would seem to imply that they had continued to probe in that direction regularly in spite of those losses. However, if *that* was how they operated, then you wouldn't expect them to disappear and never be heard from again just because they lost one battle with the White Star fleet at Babylon 5.
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Old October 5th 06, 20:17   #13
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Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery

Didn't B5 already know they were coming? Perhaps they had attacked others on the way, and that's how they deduced they'd be hitting B5.
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Old October 5th 06, 20:19   #14
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Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery

Maybe they lived within former-Shadow territory. Now with the Shadows gone, they themselves have decided to poke their heads out while before they were fine with providing supplies to the Shadows.
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Old October 5th 06, 22:09   #15
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Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery

It's been a while since I watched it, so some pricise details are a little hazy.

They had some warning, as I recall ...... but clearly not enough to get the White Stars back ahead of them (much less cut them off en route). So, by the time they got much of any information just about unknown or possibly hostile ships headed in this general direction, the alien battle fleet was already closer then the White Stars patrolling in known space (or at least most of them).

As for coming from formerly Shadow space, Shadow space had been out on the Rim. Again, they would have to come through some of the already known races' territorries to get to Babylon 5.


The other thing about the being a one-shot, is that it just felt incongruous with everything that JMS had done in the rest of the 5 years. Babylon 5 had just never been a show where a large fleet of ships showed up to be the main antagonist in one episode without ever being hinted at before or after. Hanging threads had always lead somewhere in this show.
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Old October 5th 06, 22:28   #16
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Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery

Quote:
As for coming from formerly Shadow space, Shadow space had been out on the Rim. Again, they would have to come through some of the already known races' territorries to get to Babylon 5.
While one can make a really big deal about it if they want, I don't see it as some big thing. It's not as if there's some meticulously canon map of the galaxy and who controlled what territory out there. And it's not like any such map could be concrete anyway because of just how much space there is out there in space. Space is HUGE. I can't imagine that any of the races, even major ones, have utter and total domination and awareness over absolutely every sliver of space they claim to be theirs.

Quote:
The other thing about the being a one-shot, is that it just felt incongruous with everything that JMS had done in the rest of the 5 years. Babylon 5 had just never been a show where a large fleet of ships showed up to be the main antagonist in one episode without ever being hinted at before or after.
Not a fleet of ships, but still one-shots that travelled through space, mattered for an episode, and then never mattered again:

the probe in "A Day In The Strife"
the Streib in "All Alone In The Night"
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Old October 6th 06, 00:30   #17
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Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery

I once heard that JMS intended to end S4 at "Intersections in Real Time." In other words, the fight in "A View From the Gallery" would have been before "Endgame." As he'd already wrapped up that plotline, but still wanted the station in peril for this ep, he had to drum up a previously-unknown race.
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Old October 6th 06, 01:35   #18
hypatia
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Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery

You'll have to ask someone like Jan or Joe about that.
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Old October 6th 06, 04:12   #19
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Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery

i am as we speak re-watching season 5, and i admit that i never liked it compared to the other four, ultimately the storylines felt rushed and because it was never intended, the arcs were all finished in season 4. there are some great episodes in season 5 but really they are just great episodes in a mediocre season. oh and it was the pak'ma'ra (presumably the correct spelling) who warned them of the incoming strike.
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Old October 6th 06, 08:48   #20
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Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery

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... and because it was never intended ...
Just a small point, but S5 was always intended ... it was just that having been told that there would be no S5 renewal because PTEN had disappeared, the story arcs had to be accelerated to conclude in S4 rather than continuing on into early S5 as was originally intended.

That meant that S5 had to pick up from a completely standing start which ruined the momentum of the story, and elements that would have been introduced more naturally during late S4, such as the telepath colony, had to be pushed back into S5 in order to isolate S5 from the others.
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