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View Poll Results: Walkabout
A -- Excellent 39 88.64%
B -- Good 3 6.82%
C -- Average 2 4.55%
D -- Poor 0 0%
F -- Failure 0 0%
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Old March 2nd 06, 03:52   #11
FreeBaGeL
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Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

My favorite episode, and despite its great ratings so far I still see it as somewhat underrated.

A for sure.
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Old March 2nd 06, 04:57   #12
RW7427
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Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

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John "Get the hell out of our galaxy" Sheridan would totally own any Trek character
Don't let hypatia hear you say that. She LOVES Patrick Stewart.
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Old March 2nd 06, 16:33   #13
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Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

This was THE episode that sold me on B5. I had my TV alarm set to TNT when B5 was being shown there so I ended up waking up just about every morning to B5 but I usually only caught the last half-quarter of the show but eventually curiosity overwhelmed me and I finally started taping some of the episodes and this was the most exciting and awesome few moments of TV that I have ever seen with the possible exception of some of DS9 and it led me to going back and watching the entire series once they started running B5 on Sci-Fi. Seeing the earlier episodes that lead up to Z'Ha'Dum made me appreciate it even MORE. Words alone simply can't describe how totally awesome this episode is! Now only if they would make more movies/TV shows like this...............
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Old March 3rd 06, 11:44   #14
Enlightened_GKar
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Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

Arguably the best script in the entire 5-year run. Every main character featured in this episode leaves with at least one quotable comment. Furthermore, the juxtaposition of Sheridan on Z'Ha'Dum, Sheridan's message to Delenn, and the Shadows hovering over Babylon 5 all occuring simultaneously is carried out with skillful excellence.

The only qualm I can even dare mention is Sheridan mentioning the possible future he saw in "War without End." It was kind of counter-dramatic to talk about possible futures--it was just a bad idea to talk about the timeline in general, especially at that moment.

Still, "you cannot let that get in the way of the dream" of this episode. The scene on Z'Ha'Dum with Sheridan discussing the Shadows' doctrine amidst Morden, Anna, and Justin displays stunning dialogue. That entire scene is worthy of memorization. That shit is wonderful.
Even better is when things hit the peak once the Shadows drop the diplomatic act. (Ironically, Justin exclaiming: "But you do what you are told! And so will you!" before the Shadow steps in sounds unbelievably Vorlon.)
Sheridan's run through the corridors of Z'Ha'Dum is something I would pay money to see, but to leave it off screen is a gamble that pays off. Less is more may not be JMS' calling card, but leaving out that scene leaves so much to the imagination. Plus, Sheridan's bloody ascent to the top of the tower is thematically breathtaking. There is no more than five minutes of real time in between Sheridan firing his PPG at that Shadow and the climb to the tower, but leaving out that five minutes - somehow - makes a drastic effect.

The usage of Kosh . . . oh Hell yeah! Sheridan in his quarters preparing for Z'Ha'Dum and seeing Kosh in the mirror was good; having Kosh speak to him on the edge was better.

G'Kar's narration at the end is, quite obviously, well done, but what I like even more is how it is interrupted by Corwin's news to Ivanova:
"There's one more thing. We checked the fighter bays. One of the fighters we sent out didn't come back."
"Who was the pilot?"
"Mr. Garibaldi."

Check out Ivanova's expression when she hears this. Phenomenal acting. What a look.

From the moment the snowglobe shatters, this episode is perfect.
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Old March 3rd 06, 16:46   #15
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Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

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It was kind of counter-dramatic to talk about possible futures--it was just a bad idea to talk about the timeline in general, especially at that moment.
Possibly slightly counter-dramatic.
However, JMS had always, as much as possible, followed the dictum that the logic of the situation will out.

Given that he had that glimpse of the future (or possible future) and discussed it Delenn, there is absolutely no way that he would not addess that issue at all in his message to Delenn.


Quote:
Less is more may not be JMS' calling card
When it came the First Ones (whether Vorlons, Shadows, or Walkers), I would disagree. The absolute rule of JMS' writing when he directly brushed up against any of the First Ones was always an extreme case of "less is more". He kept them out of view as much as possible, and when they were around he kept their words to an absolute minimum (or less). (Well, up until Into the Fire, anyway.)


Quote:
Check out Ivanova's expression when she hears this. Phenomenal acting. What a look.
There have been discussions of the acting on B5 around here in the past. In them, CC has generally taken a hit as being one of the weaker links in the cast.

I just wanted to take this opportunity to say that I have always thought that CC was a very good *reactor*. Where she tended to come up short (at least in comparison to the likes of AK, PJ, and MF) was when she needed to summon emotion entirely internally (such as entering the scene cold to tell Sheridan about EF's destruction of unarmed refugee ships). However, put Ivanova in a room opposite someone like Marcus or Zathrus or Brother Theo and just let CC react to what they're giving her ...... that was always a strong suit of hers.
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Old March 3rd 06, 16:49   #16
Granite
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Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

Actually the moment when Anna is looking at Sheridan standing at the edge of the cliff is one of the most terrifying in the episode. You realize as the shadows move up behind Anna with her outstretched hand what truely awaits Sheridan if he chooses to grab hold.


...a note though: with regards to Justin's speech in the episode, can the shadows truely be considered evil. or was their philosophy just flawed. We learn later that the good guys (the Vorlons) are just as capable of unspeakable horrors (including subtle ones - telepath maniupulation)

Also let's not forget one of the most amazing quotes of the series (which closes the episode):

Citizen G'Kar: G'Quon wrote, "There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain."
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Old March 3rd 06, 16:56   #17
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Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

Pillow, though I'm usually one of the harshest critics of CC's acting around here, I do agree with your assessment.

Yes the Shadows are "evil." Philosophy, schmilosophy.

And the Vorlons are evil, too. Just because two groups are opposed to each other doesn't mean they can't both be deplorable.
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Old March 3rd 06, 19:12   #18
KoshFan
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Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

I would say that most Vorlons are evil. Kosh wasn't -- or at least he grew out of it. And we can't be sure of the rest. Or of the Shadows, for that matter; they may not have been monolithic either.

But that's just splitting hairs. The Shadows leading the fight were evil, just as the Vorlons who took over whenever Kosh wasn't around to restrain them were evil.
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Old March 3rd 06, 19:35   #19
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Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

We've probably had this argument before, but I consider Kosh's participation, or at least acceptance of, the Vorlon eugenics campaigns on countless races to be "evil," or at least horrifically immoral.
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Old March 3rd 06, 20:06   #20
Enlightened_GKar
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Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

Quote:

Possibly slightly counter-dramatic.
However, JMS had always, as much as possible, followed the dictum that the logic of the situation will out.

Given that he had that glimpse of the future (or possible future) and discussed it Delenn, there is absolutely no way that he would not addess that issue at all in his message to Delenn.


Quote:
Less is more may not be JMS' calling card
When it came the First Ones (whether Vorlons, Shadows, or Walkers), I would disagree. The absolute rule of JMS' writing when he directly brushed up against any of the First Ones was always an extreme case of "less is more". He kept them out of view as much as possible, and when they were around he kept their words to an absolute minimum (or less). (Well, up until Into the Fire, anyway.)

Any time you attempt to predict the future -- as Sheridan did in his message to Delenn -- the final assumption made leaves itself open to criticism. I love the continuity, but this was an extreme case of it. There have been thousands of works from Greek tragedies to corny Star Trek episodes about deciphering the future--it never works. If the truth is a three-edged sword, then arguing about how future events will occur is an infinitely-bladed weapon. You just cannot do it. Fogetit, Sheridan.

The less is more is just generality, because in general JMS wrote dialogue, plots, and siutations to their edge. Sometimes it was effective; sometimes it was not. Look at that. I just wrote another generality.

For more good acting look to Richard Biggs. (Taken from the scene where Franklin intersects Ivanova.)

Franklin (rushed): I gave him the report. I know he read it!
Ivanova: What report?
Franklin (grimly): There's a problem with Anna . . .

The script set it up so that I could train a monkey to deliver it well, but Biggs voiced it exceptionally.
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