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View Poll Results: Eyes
A -- Excellent 13 39.39%
B -- Good 18 54.55%
C -- Average 2 6.06%
D -- Poor 0 0%
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Old February 9th 05, 21:23   #11
A_M_Swallow
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Re: EpDis: A Voice In The Wilderness Part 1

Yes I meant the old keeper.
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Old February 9th 05, 21:45   #12
KoshFan
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Re: EpDis: A Voice In The Wilderness Part 1

Maybe the Zathras brothers had their hands full keeping the Machine together as Varn fell apart. But even still I have to admit it's a little hard to explain.

Best answer? JMS had Zathras's first appearance in Babylon Squared already mapped out and didn't want to spoil the surprise.
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Old February 9th 05, 22:48   #13
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Re: EpDis: A Voice In The Wilderness Part 1

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The first thing I think of when I look at this episode is Londo. It's his last hurrah, last noble and "fun" adventure before entering the darkness that would consume the rest of his life. Once you've seen the series straight through, Londo in this episode takes on a whole new meaning- the first viewing, it's comical or silly. The second one, it's bittersweet.


Ah, that's right. That might be my favorite Londo sequence.......up there with teaching bugs not to triffle with a Centauri.

"Landing thruster.......landing thruster.......let's see, if I were a landing thruster, where would I be????"

It kind of feels like we are getting a glimpse into who he was before he came to B5 and ended up being "touched by darkness". I can see the swashbuckling Paso Leati flying fearlessly through the storm of battle for the glory of the old republic. But, given the coming darkness, it is quite accurate to describe it as bittersweet to see him free of his station, even if only for a little while.

I thought part 1 was a bit better than part 2, mostly because I found the attacking aliens to be more rediculous than fearsome. The presence of Earthforce was a mildly amusing sideline player in the story. Really, the best of it was seeing Draal find a place for himself just shy of leaving entirely. It feels alot like when Sinclair describes himself as having found his place, like the arrow that springs forth from the bow, no doubt, no hesitation. Draal's place with the great machine felt very similar.


Altogether I would give it a B, probably B+. Kind of rough, but very worthwhile and easily entertaining.
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Old February 10th 05, 02:36   #14
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Re: EpDis: A Voice In The Wilderness Part 1

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Really, the best of it was seeing Draal find a place for himself just shy of leaving entirely. It feels alot like when Sinclair describes himself as having found his place, like the arrow that springs forth from the bow, no doubt, no hesitation. Draal's place with the great machine felt very similar.
It was kinda built to be similar, I think. Draal said that Varn chose to appear to him, Londo, and Sinclair because of their being so aquainted with the "3rd Principal of Sentient Life" -- the whole sacrificing oneself for another or others. Draal does it in going to the planet to take the position at the heart of the Great Machine, Sinclair does it in going back into the past to become Valen and take the Minbari Babylon 4 to help win in that struggle against the Shadows, and Londo does it in asking G'Kar to kill him to save Delenn and Sheridan.
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Old February 10th 05, 10:29   #15
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Re: EpDis: A Voice In The Wilderness Part 1

If a Zathras was shuttling people around during these episodes, both the sense of urgency and sacrifice created by the situation would have been lost.

"Great pardonings, but machine needing guardian. Old one dying... need new center. You being replacement, yes?" isn't as effective as having Draal see the consequences of inaction, feel the sense of wonder and sacrifice directly from Varn or Flarn or whatever that dude's name was.

And, of course, the machine was acting haywire- maybe the Zathrases couldn't fly away.
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Old February 10th 05, 12:19   #16
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Re: EpDis: A Voice In The Wilderness Part 1

Great episode. I love Ivanova's mantra (have it as my windows shut down) and her apology afterwards.
It's moments like that that set apart B5 from the other sci-fi out there.
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Old February 13th 05, 21:13   #17
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Re: EpDis: A Voice In The Wilderness Part 1

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It kind of feels like we are getting a glimpse into who he was before he came to B5 and ended up being "touched by darkness". I can see the swashbuckling Paso Leati flying fearlessly through the storm of battle for the glory of the old republic. But, given the coming darkness, it is quite accurate to describe it as bittersweet to see him free of his station, even if only for a little while.

Yes, in retrospect it is sad to see that this, the Londo as Londo thought of himself (noble, self-sacrificing, carefree) was not the Londo that fate had decreed. The best feature of this episode was telling us that about Londo - and explaining why Delenn continued to feel it worth her time to try to draw him into the Conspiracy of Light.
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Old February 14th 05, 18:21   #18
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Re: EpDis: A Voice In The Wilderness Part 1

That's a good point. Being able to glimpse something of Londo's virtue at this point does provide more viewer confidence that Delenn's efforts are more than just a general atempt to save as many people as possible, but rather a capability to see some positive potential in the heart of Londo. I like that Londo does manage to start doing some good things in late season 4 and early season 5 when he becomes "married" to Gkar, though his fate has already been sealed by his past actions and this window of virtue is also far too short lived.
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Old March 1st 05, 11:59   #19
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Re: EpDis: A Voice In The Wilderness Part 1

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What really bothers me about the Great Machine is that they didn't know it was there. There just happened to be one of the most powerful and mysterious devices in the galaxy sitting little right under the station and- oops- no one had the foggiest notion. Ok.
Yeah, I know, LOL!! It was like, "Oh, wow, the biggest most powerful in the machine in the world? Right here? And we have access to it? BRILLIANT!!"

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The odd thing is that one of the Zathras brothers did not take Draal to Babylon 5.
I don't understand this statement. Why would a Zathras brother transport Draal to B5 from the Minbari homeworld? Do you mean why didn't a Zathras brother transport the dying Varn from the planet to the station instead of leaving it up to Ivanova and Sinclair to go down to the planet and bring him back?
The way I reconciled this was that either 1) Zathras took care of the machine as was pretty much unaware of the Keeper, or, being able to travel through time Zathras knew that Susan and Sinclair would remove him and that Draal would take his place. Besides, the keeper was burnt out. There was nothing they could have done for him on B5 even if Zathras did bring him up there.

Quote:
I like that Londo does manage to start doing some good things in late season 4 and early season 5 when he becomes "married" to Gkar, though his fate has already been sealed by his past actions and this window of virtue is also far too short lived.
Yeah, that bummed me out. You really did see that he was a good guy and I so wanted him to stay that way.


(sorry to bring up yet another old thread. Last one, I promise. Probably.)
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Old September 6th 08, 18:10   #20
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Re: EpDis: A Voice In The Wilderness Part 1

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