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View Poll Results: Favorite recurring character: Season 3
A -- Excellent 2 4.17%
B -- Good 11 22.92%
C -- Average 14 29.17%
D -- Poor 17 35.42%
F -- Failure 4 8.33%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 30th 04, 17:48   #11
grumbler
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Re: EpDis: TKO

Even the Ivanova subplot was too heavy-handed for me. I know DiTillio was trying to show that the humans were not universally loved (a Centauri could fight, a human could not) and that Ivanova's career came at a price, but there are ways to handle those issues without hitting me over the head with a sledgehammer. Not quite an out-and-out failure, but one of the least interesting 5 episodes in the series.
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Old January 1st 05, 02:31   #12
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Re: EpDis: TKO

Personally I always liked the Mutai part the best. There is something I can't put my finger on with the Ivnova subplot that just doesn't work for me. I think the reason I like the Mutai is because straight forward. Theres a persona on the down and out he wants to fight he gets to fight and draws. there is also the issues of respect for other people and there ideas.

All and all its still only a C but Half is better than none.
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Old February 2nd 05, 17:24   #13
Shaal Mayan
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Re: EpDis: TKO

Average and mainly for the Ivanova story of greiving for her dad finally.
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Old February 3rd 05, 14:42   #14
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Re: EpDis: TKO

I liked the Ivanova plot, She is trying to get over her fathers death privatly by working all the time and not giving herself time to think about it.. The Rabbi makes her stop and grieve properley.. It was touching..

However the fighting story was probably the worst sub story I have seen on B5, It was Rocky in space, The old Alien was Mickey and Garabaldi was Apollo Creed, It was a combination of Rocky 2 and Rocky 4, I half expected Smith to shout out ADRIAN.... at the end
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Old August 16th 07, 19:55   #15
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Re: EpDis: TKO

I generally hate boxing episodes. So no big surprise in my dislike for this one.

What especially bugged me about it though was how it fell into a Star Trek-y trap that the universe is split up into humans and aliens.

"The mutai is not for humans!" .. when it's obvious that it's quite fine for a few gazillion alien races to join.

Maybe it's a league thing, and the Centauri wouldn't be allowed in either, for example. But not once did they mention it. It was always just "not for humans", as if humans would be anything but random alien species #783 for the mutai-do.
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Old August 19th 07, 00:00   #16
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Re: EpDis: TKO

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Originally Posted by Chilli View Post
"The mutai is not for humans!" .. when it's obvious that it's quite fine for a few gazillion alien races to join.
Humans were 'new,' upstarts, and had no knowledge, of or respect for the traditions involved. That is why they were not allowed. Although we never saw it, that could apply to other species as well. We only see a few species competing. I doubt it would apply to the Centauri, but perhaps. I guess we'll never know, unless JMS decides to make a series about the Mutai Doh.
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Old August 19th 07, 01:53   #17
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Re: EpDis: TKO

One can hope not

It's just something that bugs me me about so many Sci-Fi genres .. how aliens from any culture will always treat humans as "the normal" guys, as opposed to a random alien species - which, of course, humans SHOULD be to any alien race in a unvierse where there are X races.

Take Star Trek, for example. Spock is half human, half Vulcan. He grew up on Vulcan, and identifies himself as Vulcan. Yet, he refers to himself as "half Human and half alien". It just makes no sense - he should be seeing himself as "half Vulcan and half alien"

Babylon 5 was extremely good about this, in general. This is the one time over the run of the series that my pet peeve got petted.

Yes, other explenations are quite plausible, that races need to go through rites to get to join the mutai, or god knows what. But this was never introduces. We just saw "The mutai is not for you humans! It is for us aliens!"
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Old August 19th 07, 03:31   #18
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Re: EpDis: TKO

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Yes, other explenations are quite plausible, that races need to go through rites to get to join the mutai, or god knows what. But this was never introduces. We just saw "The mutai is not for you humans! It is for us aliens!"
This is a lot like sumo was in Japan. They were very reluctant to accept non-Japanese competitors, but no longer. I think the current champ is Mongolian. They are mad at him for not keeping tradition.
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Old August 19th 07, 10:26   #19
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Re: EpDis: TKO

It made me think of Bloodsport actually with the same this competition is not for you attitude.

As for him being refused entry at the beginning it was hardly surprising considering his attitude and big mouth.Was this done to show Humans general lack of respect for aliens?Clarke played on this later in the series.

As I understood it Humans were also one of the weaker races when it came to physical strength.Was it not shown that female Minbari had more strength by far than your strong Human?

It also seems to me that the other races seem to have been in space nearly a thousand years and resent the new boys pushing there way around the block.Considering they are new to space the Humans do seem to have a big political influence and a powerful military one.A certain amount of specism would be expected anyway and the Human Race would still be fighting to be accepted in many ways.

I didn't mind this episode at all,in fact one of the things about B5 was that I liked it all,well apart from the bits where Byron was in it.It opened up the rest of the universe a little more and made it a little richer.

Ivanova was,as usual,nice to watch as well.

I'd say a B
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Old August 22nd 07, 01:55   #20
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Re: EpDis: TKO

This is the episode that sold the show to me. Both arcs worked for me and all of the characters just jelled. I still get choked up when Ivanova recites the mourning prayer - and I'm not Jewish. I guess my username is sort of a give away.
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