Shaal Mayan
Regular
I tend to go with Joe D comments there is no way that David Martel is Sheridan son's end of story.
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2nd viewing of Rangers, I have ALL THE ANSWERS....
- Thread starter 2aMageing
- Start date
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>So Martel could be the son of Sheridan and Anna or Sheridan and Lochely.<hr></blockquote>
Sheridan and Lochley, technically possible because the dates work. Sheridan and Anna? Not a chance. Martel was born before the two even met.
But Sheridan and Lochley? Think about it. Sheridan finally tells Delenn that he and Lochley were married once, but he neglects to tell her that they had a child? In all the years since Sheridan and Lochley have had no contact in all these years, so that he's unaware that he has a son? Unlikely. They're Academy classmates, and they'd keep track of each other careers. (Always a big deal in such a group to see who gets promoted fastest.) Besides, Sheridan must have some idea of Lochley's current character, not just his memories from 20 years ago, to request her as commander of B5. If she'd had his son, I'm sure he'd know about it. It would be out of character for both of them otherwise. He wouldn't cut her out of his life so completely that he'd miss something like that, and she wouldn't hide it from him.
Did Lochley give the kid up for adoption? Why? I would think EarthForce would have ways of dealing with such things short of forcing an officer to give up her kid.
So Lochley's out, Anna's out, and there is no evidence beyond what people want to read into quite innocuous lines of dialogue and the presence of G'Kar to even remotely suggest a connection. Martel being Sheridan's son would throw a monkey wrench into the established continuity for no good reason. It would also be the kind of cliche JMS loathes. If he'd meant this to be the case there would be some real clues, subtle, but unmistakable when analyzed, right out in the open.
Like I said, I don't understand why people seem to need these connections between things in a story that is already quite interconnected and richly textured as it is.
Regards,
Joe
Sheridan and Lochley, technically possible because the dates work. Sheridan and Anna? Not a chance. Martel was born before the two even met.
But Sheridan and Lochley? Think about it. Sheridan finally tells Delenn that he and Lochley were married once, but he neglects to tell her that they had a child? In all the years since Sheridan and Lochley have had no contact in all these years, so that he's unaware that he has a son? Unlikely. They're Academy classmates, and they'd keep track of each other careers. (Always a big deal in such a group to see who gets promoted fastest.) Besides, Sheridan must have some idea of Lochley's current character, not just his memories from 20 years ago, to request her as commander of B5. If she'd had his son, I'm sure he'd know about it. It would be out of character for both of them otherwise. He wouldn't cut her out of his life so completely that he'd miss something like that, and she wouldn't hide it from him.
Did Lochley give the kid up for adoption? Why? I would think EarthForce would have ways of dealing with such things short of forcing an officer to give up her kid.
So Lochley's out, Anna's out, and there is no evidence beyond what people want to read into quite innocuous lines of dialogue and the presence of G'Kar to even remotely suggest a connection. Martel being Sheridan's son would throw a monkey wrench into the established continuity for no good reason. It would also be the kind of cliche JMS loathes. If he'd meant this to be the case there would be some real clues, subtle, but unmistakable when analyzed, right out in the open.
Like I said, I don't understand why people seem to need these connections between things in a story that is already quite interconnected and richly textured as it is.
Regards,
Joe
2aMageing
Regular
Re: 2nd viewing of Rangers, I have ALL THE ANSWERS
Let me toss one more factor out here. Granted there is not much to be done with timeline setup by Asleep in the Light, but as I recall wasn't this episode shot REALLY EARLY in the B5 series, like around season 2 / 3 when it was not certain that the series was going to make a complete 5 season run???
And if JMS was forced to "create cannon" so early on, is it not reasonable to assume he ended up wanting to go in a different direction as he flushed out his story arcs during seasons 3,4 and 5?
If you can agree <font color=yellow>(at least within the scope of the Rangers movie)</font color=yellow> that there are multiple indications of Martel being THE david, and considering the conditions the only contradictory episode was written under, does it not seem reasonable that the most recent JMS material (the rangers movie) would be JMS's "last say" on issues, so to speak. Especially if prior "canon" was done under unusual conditions?
Just another factor to consider.
BTW, I have NO COMMENT on how many childern Kirk has fathered in his "time". But it must be in the thousands......
And as was brought up by another, people should not RULE OUT a possibility, especially when, throug the use of time travel, Sinclair turned out to be something most would have said was impossible without JMS filling in all the details. If ya'll will remember, in the episode where Sheridan is "unstuck" in time, Delenn tells him their son is safe (safe where? like Luke Skywalker kind of safe??).
Eitherways, my thanks to people for giving my humble possibility consideration. Even though many believe it to be impossible (not in a sci fi vocabulary, actaully... /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif )
Hand quotes still coming..."Please Stand By".....(within next 48 hours) /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Let me toss one more factor out here. Granted there is not much to be done with timeline setup by Asleep in the Light, but as I recall wasn't this episode shot REALLY EARLY in the B5 series, like around season 2 / 3 when it was not certain that the series was going to make a complete 5 season run???
And if JMS was forced to "create cannon" so early on, is it not reasonable to assume he ended up wanting to go in a different direction as he flushed out his story arcs during seasons 3,4 and 5?
If you can agree <font color=yellow>(at least within the scope of the Rangers movie)</font color=yellow> that there are multiple indications of Martel being THE david, and considering the conditions the only contradictory episode was written under, does it not seem reasonable that the most recent JMS material (the rangers movie) would be JMS's "last say" on issues, so to speak. Especially if prior "canon" was done under unusual conditions?
Just another factor to consider.
BTW, I have NO COMMENT on how many childern Kirk has fathered in his "time". But it must be in the thousands......
And as was brought up by another, people should not RULE OUT a possibility, especially when, throug the use of time travel, Sinclair turned out to be something most would have said was impossible without JMS filling in all the details. If ya'll will remember, in the episode where Sheridan is "unstuck" in time, Delenn tells him their son is safe (safe where? like Luke Skywalker kind of safe??).
Eitherways, my thanks to people for giving my humble possibility consideration. Even though many believe it to be impossible (not in a sci fi vocabulary, actaully... /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif )
Hand quotes still coming..."Please Stand By".....(within next 48 hours) /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Recoil
Regular
Re: 2nd viewing of Rangers, I have ALL THE ANSWERS
Ok,
I think this guy is just posting this stuff here to get a bunch of people talking about silly theories and yanking everyones chain. Seriously.
And Sleeping in Light was filmed at the VERY end of Season 4 ONLY because they thought it may not have Season 5. JMS could have changed it if he wanted, but there was no need. So that whole argument is gone.
Ok,
I think this guy is just posting this stuff here to get a bunch of people talking about silly theories and yanking everyones chain. Seriously.
And Sleeping in Light was filmed at the VERY end of Season 4 ONLY because they thought it may not have Season 5. JMS could have changed it if he wanted, but there was no need. So that whole argument is gone.
GaribaldisHair
Regular
Re: 2nd viewing of Rangers, I have ALL THE ANSWERS
No No No ... I see exactly how this is going to play out, and there WILL be a Rangers series.
David Martel is not the son of Sheridan but Captain James T Kirk (who also calls all his sons David).
Eventually it will leak out that right from the start JMS and Brannon Braga were cooking up a plan for Rangers to be a massive epic new SF series in which the B5 and Star Trek universes collide and make perfect sense of everything that has happened in both universes up to that point.
You know I'm right.
/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif
No No No ... I see exactly how this is going to play out, and there WILL be a Rangers series.
David Martel is not the son of Sheridan but Captain James T Kirk (who also calls all his sons David).
Eventually it will leak out that right from the start JMS and Brannon Braga were cooking up a plan for Rangers to be a massive epic new SF series in which the B5 and Star Trek universes collide and make perfect sense of everything that has happened in both universes up to that point.
You know I'm right.
/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif
StarForBram
Regular
Re: 2nd viewing of Rangers, I have ALL THE ANSWERS
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Recoil:
<font color=yellow>Ok,
I think this guy is just posting this stuff here to get a bunch of people talking about silly theories and yanking everyones chain. Seriously.
And Sleeping in Light was filmed at the VERY end of Season 4 ONLY because they thought it may not have Season 5. JMS could have changed it if he wanted, but there was no need. So that whole argument is gone.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Give him a break Recoil. We're just having some fun...
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Recoil:
<font color=yellow>Ok,
I think this guy is just posting this stuff here to get a bunch of people talking about silly theories and yanking everyones chain. Seriously.
And Sleeping in Light was filmed at the VERY end of Season 4 ONLY because they thought it may not have Season 5. JMS could have changed it if he wanted, but there was no need. So that whole argument is gone.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Give him a break Recoil. We're just having some fun...
Re: 2nd viewing of Rangers, I have ALL THE ANSWERS
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr> Eventually it will leak out that right from the start JMS and Brannon Braga were cooking up a plan for Rangers to be a massive epic new SF series in which the B5 and Star Trek universes collide and make perfect sense of everything that has happened in both universes up to that point. <hr></blockquote>
So ... the Hand is the Federation! Yeah, that makes sense ... big and powerful ... likes to pursuade and bribe other races to join and do their bidding ... gives them trickets when they do ... thinks they are so rightious and pure they are "like onto gods" ... yeah, makes sense. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr> Eventually it will leak out that right from the start JMS and Brannon Braga were cooking up a plan for Rangers to be a massive epic new SF series in which the B5 and Star Trek universes collide and make perfect sense of everything that has happened in both universes up to that point. <hr></blockquote>
So ... the Hand is the Federation! Yeah, that makes sense ... big and powerful ... likes to pursuade and bribe other races to join and do their bidding ... gives them trickets when they do ... thinks they are so rightious and pure they are "like onto gods" ... yeah, makes sense. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Recoil
Regular
Re: 2nd viewing of Rangers, I have ALL THE ANSWERS
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by StarForBram:
<font color=yellow>Give him a break Recoil. We're just having some fun...</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Look, Im all for having fun and discussing possibilities with shows like this (I do it all the time with Jeremiah). But I seriously thought he was just playing with everyone trying to get people to come up with stupid theories. I really didnt think he was serious. At first I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he didnt know the timeline, but when it was explained to him in simple english and he went on to say how Martel still is David Sheridan, then I thought he was joking. And why should I take it seriously? When he goes on and on about this David Sheridan/David Martel idea when it flat out is NOT POSSIBLE (especially since JMS said there will NEVER be time travel again in B5). Sorry, but someone ignores rational posts from someone like Joe D and throws logic to the wind how can that be taken seriously?
This thread should have been one post long. "David Martel cant be David Sheridan, because David Sheridan is born in 2263 and Rangers takes place in 2264." End of frickin story.
Debating possibilities is fine, but when you ignore blatant facts as above, you might as well start talking about how JMS was going to have a future Rangers Episode where some space-born pink elephant the size of the moon goes around gobbling up planets and to have the Battlestar Galactica come through a wormhole to save the Interstellar Alliance and the Rangers from it. And dont even tell me that "it could happen" cause you know damn well it won't. Try to at least cling to some thread of realistic discussion.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by StarForBram:
<font color=yellow>Give him a break Recoil. We're just having some fun...</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Look, Im all for having fun and discussing possibilities with shows like this (I do it all the time with Jeremiah). But I seriously thought he was just playing with everyone trying to get people to come up with stupid theories. I really didnt think he was serious. At first I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he didnt know the timeline, but when it was explained to him in simple english and he went on to say how Martel still is David Sheridan, then I thought he was joking. And why should I take it seriously? When he goes on and on about this David Sheridan/David Martel idea when it flat out is NOT POSSIBLE (especially since JMS said there will NEVER be time travel again in B5). Sorry, but someone ignores rational posts from someone like Joe D and throws logic to the wind how can that be taken seriously?
This thread should have been one post long. "David Martel cant be David Sheridan, because David Sheridan is born in 2263 and Rangers takes place in 2264." End of frickin story.
Debating possibilities is fine, but when you ignore blatant facts as above, you might as well start talking about how JMS was going to have a future Rangers Episode where some space-born pink elephant the size of the moon goes around gobbling up planets and to have the Battlestar Galactica come through a wormhole to save the Interstellar Alliance and the Rangers from it. And dont even tell me that "it could happen" cause you know damn well it won't. Try to at least cling to some thread of realistic discussion.
Re: 2nd viewing of Rangers, I have ALL THE ANSWERS
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Recoil:
<font color=yellow>Debating possibilities is fine, but when you ignore blatant facts as above, you might as well start talking about how JMS was going to have a future Rangers Episode where some space-born pink elephant the size of the moon go around gobbling up planets and to have the Battlestar Galactica come through a wormhole to save the Interstellar Alliance and the Rangers. And dont even tell me that "it could happen" cause you know damn well it won't. Try to at least cling to some thread of realistic discussion.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Damn... Recoil, have you been reading my story notes?
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Recoil:
<font color=yellow>Debating possibilities is fine, but when you ignore blatant facts as above, you might as well start talking about how JMS was going to have a future Rangers Episode where some space-born pink elephant the size of the moon go around gobbling up planets and to have the Battlestar Galactica come through a wormhole to save the Interstellar Alliance and the Rangers. And dont even tell me that "it could happen" cause you know damn well it won't. Try to at least cling to some thread of realistic discussion.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Damn... Recoil, have you been reading my story notes?
Recoil
Regular
Re: 2nd viewing of Rangers, I have ALL THE ANSWERS
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by channe:
<font color=yellow>Damn... Recoil, have you been reading my story notes?</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
You have better taste and ideas than that. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by channe:
<font color=yellow>Damn... Recoil, have you been reading my story notes?</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
You have better taste and ideas than that. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Re: 2nd viewing of Rangers, I have ALL THE ANSWERS
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Recoil:
<font color=yellow>You have better taste and ideas than that. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, well I don't ... what's the name of that pink baby elephant?
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Recoil:
<font color=yellow>You have better taste and ideas than that. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, well I don't ... what's the name of that pink baby elephant?
taichidave
Regular
Re: 2nd viewing of Rangers, I have ALL THE ANSWERS
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by channe:
<font color=yellow>*checks her story notes* Baby Jane.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Ah.
Obviously the heretofore unknown offspring of Mary JANE Watson-Parker, who was bitten by a radioactive elephant during her mysterious disappearance a couple of years back.
/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by channe:
<font color=yellow>*checks her story notes* Baby Jane.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Ah.
Obviously the heretofore unknown offspring of Mary JANE Watson-Parker, who was bitten by a radioactive elephant during her mysterious disappearance a couple of years back.
/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: 2nd viewing of Rangers, I have ALL THE ANSWERS
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Obviously the heretofore unknown offspring of Mary JANE Watson-Parker, who was bitten by a radioactive elephant during her mysterious disappearance a couple of years back.<hr></blockquote>
Oh, damn, Kevin Smith is going to be pissed. The baby elephant thing was going to be the main story for his first eight issues of The Amazing Spiderman. Now that it's leaked...
(And we all know that there's nothing worse than a leaky elephant. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif)
Joe
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Obviously the heretofore unknown offspring of Mary JANE Watson-Parker, who was bitten by a radioactive elephant during her mysterious disappearance a couple of years back.<hr></blockquote>
Oh, damn, Kevin Smith is going to be pissed. The baby elephant thing was going to be the main story for his first eight issues of The Amazing Spiderman. Now that it's leaked...
(And we all know that there's nothing worse than a leaky elephant. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif)
Joe
