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Old May 11th 15, 18:49   #23
Lennier's Tears
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: DC-ish
Posts: 329
Re: EpDis: Objects At Rest

Originally Posted by Jan View Post

I think jealous isn't the word at this point. Obsessive would better describe it. Delusional is another good word. He tried to convince Marcus that his love was "higher, nobler" which was pure self-delusion. Then he joined the Rangers in order to be worthy of her and trained too hard. Look back at the script from 'The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari' when they discuss his leaving for the Rangers.

I only wish to
add a few more. To become more of
what you might want me to be. More
of what you might find --
He feels their relationship is a mistake because he feels that he's the best one for her.

Yes, I think "obsessive" and "delusional" are accurate descriptions. I think there's still a world of difference between "maybe if I do this or this thing she'll like me" (and I thought that conversation was out of character, too. It'd be one thing for him to THINK that, to actually say it to her is another), and "I'm clearly the best possible partner for her". This is humble, self-effacing Lennier we're talking about. He's practically a kid, too. In his more rational moments, he must realize that it'll be several decades before he would have enough life experience to where he could be a kind of equal partner to Delenn. (And conveniently, she's going to be without a husband in a couple decades anyway ... He could have just waited!)

I feel that for him to be THIS out of touch with reality, he must be suffering from some mental illness that apparently no one picked up on. My other explanation, as I've mentioned elsewhere, is that he's going through some type of Minbari puberty that we're just never told about on the show.

Originally Posted by Mororless View Post
As I said in the other thread I think the weakness of this is that it means the whole situation is less of a comment on the character. When the likes of Delenn, Londo, G'Kar, Ivanova, etc suffer some kind of "fall" a lot of the weight comes from the fact that there actions are very much in character.
Yes, I liked your comments in the other thread about how his "fall" could have happened more in character. I guess the problem is that with a character like his, it's hard to have any kind of fall. His only possible fault is that he might be TOO loyal, if there is such a thing. If he had gone against the Rangers to save Delenn , perhaps none of us would have considered that a failing at all ... Depending on circumstances, I guess.

I guess it was simply considered too boring to have a character who is nothing but humble and loyal to the end, and perhaps that is true, although it's not like there's an overabundance of them in the B5 universe. I might be retconning things in my memory because it's been almost 20 years but I think I always felt like something horrible was going to happen to Lennier. I definitely remember expecting that character to be killed off before the end, even before Morden's prophecy in Day of the Dead. You can't have a character like that without something horrible happening to them ... Turns it out it was something way worse than death. I suppose I can see why he'd be written that way, but I don't have to like it
I think we're well beyond pastels now.
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