Thread: Aborted Reboot
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Old August 22nd 13, 00:20   #7
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Re: Aborted Reboot

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshN View Post
When I was watching Crusade, NEVER did it make me think of Trek. Babylon 5 never made me think of Deep Space Nine, because of how they diverged over time, and because the tone was so different. The writing was so different. Sure, the command structure on the Excalibur was similar to the command structure on Trek, but the same can be said for other ship based shows and movies (e.g. the cold war, submarine movie "Phantom"). Big deal! The writing and characters on Crusade were not copies of Trek characters.
I'll use a more neutral example: SeaQuest DSV was derivative of TNG. Same kinds of stories, equally badly told, the characters were ciphers, the conflicts were artificial. Yeah, it's set in a submarine on earth in the future, but it might as well have been a starship. Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda likewise felt derivative. Not *AS* derivative at first because it had an arc, something Roddenberry always strenuously avoided, but it definitely felt derivative of TNG. TNG was derivative of TOS.

Conversely, if you watch another ship-based SF show from the period of TOS - I'm going to pick Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea - it feels NOTHING like TOS. Partially because it's really stupid, but also because there's a fundamental structural difference in the way they tell the stories.

I didn't say JMS was ripping off Trek. I said it was DERIVATIVE of the wave of ship-based shows that appeared in the wake of Trek. And I said it ALMOST felt like he was maybe doing it to show Paramount and all those others how he could do it BETTER than them.

How better to make your enemies burn with shame? Out do them at their own game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshN View Post
Perhaps it's because I've cut all ties with the Trek universe, and no longer care even one tiny bit what happens with the Trek universe, but having watched all of B5 and Crusade and having read all of the B5 novels, when watching Crusade and B5, I'm 100% IN the B5/Crusade universe, not thinking of Trek anything. B5 and Crusade made me see the weaknesses in Trek and have absolutely no further use for Trek at this point. Sure, I may watch an episode of TOS or TNG if it comes on TV while I'm channel surfing, but I don't own any Trek on DVD, and wouldn't spend the money now for even TOS or TNG.
I'm with ya' there, brother. I actually only started watching some episodes of Trek again this year. The last one I'd seen before that was the DS9 Tribble ep which was (looking it up) holy crap! 1996! SO 17 years with no Trek. And I only watched that because R2 was nagging me about it. It'd probably been a year since I watched the last thing prior to that (looking it up) Voyager. 1995.

I watched a few old faves, tried to watch some stuff that happened after I left the party, quickly grew bored, and that's that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshN View Post
Why? Because BSG and SGU were trashy soap operas that were set in space, and TOS and TNG weren't? BSG (2003+) started out well, but turned completely into crap by Season 3. The transition was gradual but by Season 3's end, I could no longer stand it. I'd been buying the BSG miniseries and Season sets since the beginning, but got so fed up with the backbiting and trashy daytime soap opera nature of it that I sold all of my BSG DVDs. I never liked SGU, SG-1 and SGA yes, but NOT SGU.
Oh, I love Gate! Love it! SGU was admittedly the weakest of the series, but the strength of Gate has always been its ability to re-invent itself and course-correct (Which Trek was never any good at). Season 2 was, on the whole, WAY better than season 1. I totaly get why people didn't like it, though, and I'm not gonna' say they're wrong. It made a bunch of false assumptions about their audience.

As to why BSG (Actually both old and new BSG) were different from Trek, c'mon, do you really need to ask that? The reasons you liked the RDM BSG in the early days were probably because it was so un-treklike. It utterly fell apart in the last couple seasons, and I agree it's unwatchable in retrospect. For a season or so, though, it was the best show on TV. And for 3 seasons, it wasn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshN View Post
I NEVER felt like that, but again perhaps it's because I was so thoroughly immersed in the B5/Crusade story. Crusade never made me think of Trek.
Fair enough. A problem of ship-based shows is that they eventually become ABOUT the ship. I don't like that. I mean, it's ok once, but EVERYONE does it now. One of the things I loved about B5 is that it WASN'T about a ship. Likewise one of the major failings of SGU was that it WAS about a ship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshN View Post
Haven't you read the Centauri or the Technomage trilogies? The only thing in the B5 universe that qualifies as a buildup, to a great big nuthin' was the non-canon B5 novel "Book #5 The Touch of Your Shadow, the Whisper of Your Name" and if I wasn't a completest, it wouldn't be in my house.
Read 'em when they came out. They were ok. Admittedly my memory is fuzzy of them now. However no matter how assured I am that something is canon, I always take it with a grain of salt. If JMS decides to do a new show tomorrow, I gurantee he's not going to say, "Oh, wait, this contradicts something in that piece of shit John Vornhort novel, so we can't do it." He's just going to do what he wants to do, and screw all the books.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshN View Post
Other than The Telepath War, it WAS handled in the Psi Corps trilogy of novels. Only The Telepath War was skipped, left for a theatrical release or series of theatrical releases.
Which seemed a mistake then, and seems a bigger mistake now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshN View Post
Not me. I want to see the Rangers forgotten as a show, and Crusade continued in some form. I'll take anything in that respect, even comic books , but I'd vastly prefer non-graphic novels IF I can't have it as a TV series.
You misunderstand. I don't want "Legend of the Rangers" to become a TV show. That was a turd. I want a TV show based around various teams of rangers, and several central characters, doing things in different parts of the galaxy, including (Among other things) fighting the telepath war.
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