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<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by traveller:
<font color=yellow>108 War Zone
107 The Long Road
106 The Well of Forever
109 The Path of Sorrows
111 Ruling from the Tomb
113 Appearances and Other Deceits
103 Racing the Night
102 The Memory of War
101 The Needs of Earth
104 Visitors from Down the Street
105 Each Night I Dream of Home
110 Patterns of the Soul
112 The Rules of the Game
Official Leopald(tm) approved..
It doesn't have any conflicts at all besides the mysterious uniform switchback</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Sorry, just spotted another problem. Visitors From Down the Street has a date shown as May, while in the background of Ruling From the Tomb you can see it's June. So RFTB has to come after Visitors.
There's just no way to make sense of it all /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif
<font color=yellow>108 War Zone
107 The Long Road
106 The Well of Forever
109 The Path of Sorrows
111 Ruling from the Tomb
113 Appearances and Other Deceits
103 Racing the Night
102 The Memory of War
101 The Needs of Earth
104 Visitors from Down the Street
105 Each Night I Dream of Home
110 Patterns of the Soul
112 The Rules of the Game
Official Leopald(tm) approved..
It doesn't have any conflicts at all besides the mysterious uniform switchback</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Sorry, just spotted another problem. Visitors From Down the Street has a date shown as May, while in the background of Ruling From the Tomb you can see it's June. So RFTB has to come after Visitors.
There's just no way to make sense of it all /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif
Kribu
Administrator
Eh, I don't frankly even notice small things such as dates and stuff. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif
I can't remember the order in which I watched it the first time - it was whatever Finnish TV deemed the best - but this last time I watched it in the order that Amazon shipped my tapes, and that didn't even follow the numbering of the tapes. Seemed as good as order as any. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif
I guess that in a way it's good that those first 13 eps were kind of stand-alone'ish, just hinting at an arc. So if you're willing to overlook some minor things (OK, I suppose that finding/using the nano-shield in the wrong order is kind of silly, for example), it doesn't really matter *that* much in which order you watch it.
I can't remember the order in which I watched it the first time - it was whatever Finnish TV deemed the best - but this last time I watched it in the order that Amazon shipped my tapes, and that didn't even follow the numbering of the tapes. Seemed as good as order as any. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif
I guess that in a way it's good that those first 13 eps were kind of stand-alone'ish, just hinting at an arc. So if you're willing to overlook some minor things (OK, I suppose that finding/using the nano-shield in the wrong order is kind of silly, for example), it doesn't really matter *that* much in which order you watch it.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kribu:
<font color=yellow>Eh, I don't frankly even notice small things such as dates and stuff. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
OK, I admit it, I'm obsessive /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif
<font color=yellow>Eh, I don't frankly even notice small things such as dates and stuff. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
OK, I admit it, I'm obsessive /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr> Actually 108 and 103 conflict with one another in how they got Eilerson. No order works if 108 is included. <hr></blockquote>
I don't take it as a contradiction - unless I'm forgetting a line here and there. How I looked at it was that Eilerson was one of the researchers they picked up in "War Zone". He proved helpful and they used him - especially when translating for the Drakh on the way back to Mars. There either Gideon or the Senate asked for Eilerson (given his expertise and already had begun to study the Drakh) or IPX decided he should go with the Excaliber ... it would be good publicity for them (helping to save Earth) and it would give him and IPX access to countless planets and ancient civilizations while riding on the finest vessel under Earth control. Eilerson's contact with his bosses later on in the series proved he was working for that interest even if he had not been assigned by IPX but asked for. I doubt the Senate or Gideon would have passed up the opportunity to use him if offered. Gideon's comment might have just been that Eilerson was assigned - as opposed to be rescued. He would have had been assigned after that since in real situations you don't - and can't - just give jobs to any and everyone.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr> They aired it in "the order it was meant to be seen" on Sci-Fi channel. <hr></blockquote>
Um ... I know they said that ... and even JMS basically said that ... but no, it can't be. For the simple fact that "War Zone" was not originally meant to be shown - nor some of the scenes and ways and uniforms and props and settings and etc that TNT demanded. They would have to redo the series to show it was meant to be shown. So there is room for debate - since chronologically "War Zone" has to be first if you include it and I personally do include it.
I don't take it as a contradiction - unless I'm forgetting a line here and there. How I looked at it was that Eilerson was one of the researchers they picked up in "War Zone". He proved helpful and they used him - especially when translating for the Drakh on the way back to Mars. There either Gideon or the Senate asked for Eilerson (given his expertise and already had begun to study the Drakh) or IPX decided he should go with the Excaliber ... it would be good publicity for them (helping to save Earth) and it would give him and IPX access to countless planets and ancient civilizations while riding on the finest vessel under Earth control. Eilerson's contact with his bosses later on in the series proved he was working for that interest even if he had not been assigned by IPX but asked for. I doubt the Senate or Gideon would have passed up the opportunity to use him if offered. Gideon's comment might have just been that Eilerson was assigned - as opposed to be rescued. He would have had been assigned after that since in real situations you don't - and can't - just give jobs to any and everyone.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr> They aired it in "the order it was meant to be seen" on Sci-Fi channel. <hr></blockquote>
Um ... I know they said that ... and even JMS basically said that ... but no, it can't be. For the simple fact that "War Zone" was not originally meant to be shown - nor some of the scenes and ways and uniforms and props and settings and etc that TNT demanded. They would have to redo the series to show it was meant to be shown. So there is room for debate - since chronologically "War Zone" has to be first if you include it and I personally do include it.
Recoil
Regular
OK it HAD to be included in the airing order for Crusade cause they paid for it. JMS hated it and didnt want to include it, so he pretty much had it shown last. If you want to include it, include it there. Or put it first, or leave it off. But their airing order was pretty much "how it was meant to be seen."
If you watch the show with the first 5 filmed scripts done first, it gets a real good feeling to the start of the show
If you start with Warzone, that feeling just isn't there
So, stuff the date....Warzone just should NOT be shown first /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
If you start with Warzone, that feeling just isn't there
So, stuff the date....Warzone just should NOT be shown first /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
I think Sci-Fi overstepped their authority in claiming that the new order was how the series was meant to be seen. Standard uniforms weren't meant to vary from one episode to the next. Characters weren't meant to meet each other twice (although some could argue that having sex doesn't have to be considered a date). The series wasn't meant to be only thirteen episodes. And it was never meant to end without any plot resolution. The Sci-Fi order is the order in which the original scripts with their original dialogue and plot devices were meant to be shown. Since the episodes do not exist the way they were meant to be seen, no one can show them the way they're meant to be seen.
Interesting this thread came up again now. I finished copying my Crusade VHS tapes into my computer (.avi format so I can now write to CD) a few minutes ago and as I did, couldn't help but notice how badly the order was screwed up. In the order I copied, War Zone was the first episode after "A Call to Arms" and the uniforms used in War Zone stood out like a sore thrumb. It is a damned shame TNT got involved and screwed everything up. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif
KoshN
Super Moderator
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by ElScorcho: </font color>
I think Sci-Fi overstepped their authority in claiming that the new order was how the series was meant to be seen.
[/quote]
Well, Sci-Fi has been known to exaggerate, and besides, the Sci-Fi order is a whole lot better than the TNT order.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by ElScorcho: </font color>
Since the episodes do not exist the way they were meant to be seen, no one can show them the way they're meant to be seen.
[/quote]
True. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif There is no possible order of the existing 13 episodes which works perfectly. The existing 13 were also never meant to be seen back-to-back. TNT royally screwed the pooch (and the fans) here.
<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by ElScorcho: </font color>
I think Sci-Fi overstepped their authority in claiming that the new order was how the series was meant to be seen.
[/quote]
Well, Sci-Fi has been known to exaggerate, and besides, the Sci-Fi order is a whole lot better than the TNT order.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by ElScorcho: </font color>
Since the episodes do not exist the way they were meant to be seen, no one can show them the way they're meant to be seen.
[/quote]
True. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif There is no possible order of the existing 13 episodes which works perfectly. The existing 13 were also never meant to be seen back-to-back. TNT royally screwed the pooch (and the fans) here.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I think Sci-Fi overstepped their authority in claiming that the new order was how the series was meant to be seen.
[/quote]
They asked JMS for his preferred order, and that's the one they went with. When the creator of the series tells you this is the order he means for it to be seen in, that becomes "the way it was meant to be seen." The War Zone debate is, of course, irrelevant, since there is no such epiosde. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Regards,
Joe
I think Sci-Fi overstepped their authority in claiming that the new order was how the series was meant to be seen.
[/quote]
They asked JMS for his preferred order, and that's the one they went with. When the creator of the series tells you this is the order he means for it to be seen in, that becomes "the way it was meant to be seen." The War Zone debate is, of course, irrelevant, since there is no such epiosde. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Regards,
Joe
KoshN
Super Moderator
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino: </font color>
The War Zone debate is, of course, irrelevant, since there is no such epiosde. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
[/quote]
Even though that's where your avatar comes from? /forums/images/icons/grin.gif
<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino: </font color>
The War Zone debate is, of course, irrelevant, since there is no such epiosde. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
[/quote]
Even though that's where your avatar comes from? /forums/images/icons/grin.gif
>>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
The War Zone debate is, of course, irrelevant, since there is no such epiosde.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even though that's where your avatar comes from?<<
I suppose since Joe said "The War Zone" episode doesn't exist, it it figment of my imagination so I'll have look and see what "I don't have on my hard disk and VHS tapes." /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif
The War Zone debate is, of course, irrelevant, since there is no such epiosde.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even though that's where your avatar comes from?<<
I suppose since Joe said "The War Zone" episode doesn't exist, it it figment of my imagination so I'll have look and see what "I don't have on my hard disk and VHS tapes." /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif
hypatia
Regular
That's the problem with B5 and Crusade. No matter how horrible an episode is, there is something redeeming in the "sub-plot" at least. If any one episode were just awful from start to finish, I could skip it. But even the “Zarg” episode had some great moments in the sub-plot for that week’s ep.
I have trouble skipping any ep. I just groan through half of it, and pay attention during the other half. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif
I have trouble skipping any ep. I just groan through half of it, and pay attention during the other half. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif
I have to agree with those that say that the JMS order is not the best order. After seeing all the episodes once again, this time in the order Traveller approved of I find that there are several things that decide the order.
Dates puts 108 first, then 102 four months later and 104 in may.
Uniforms puts the necessary episode 113 before the black episodes, and those should be finished before returning to grey and red. JMS internal order of the black episodes is ok, but I see no reason to put grey episodes in beetween, if its not to send a message to TNT that I`m pissed, but they won`t notice so why bother.
The nanotech virus is invented in 102, mentioned in 105 and used in 110.
The Lochley Gideon relation starts in 111 with dinner, continues in 105 with a date and further evolves in 112.
To see examples of Gideon not leaving anybody behind before Dureena talks about it in 109 that episode should come towards the end.
Gideons box puts 103 up before 109 where we see how he gets it.
The suspense is best kept about Gideons connection to Cerberus if 101 is in the middle and 109 late.
If we then forgets about the june date shown, which I dont`t notice anyway, decide that dinner and a date are different things and that the black uniforms disappears offscreen, we have it.
By writing all this relations on post-its and juggle them around, and then place the not related episodes 107, 106 and 110 so that the Galen heavy episodes alternate, we arrive at a useful order, like this:
108 War zone (if its in, its here, january)
111 Ruling from the tomb (Lochley 1)
103 Racing the night (box 1)
101 The needs of Earth (Cerberus mentioned)
102 The memory of war (virus 1, 4 months later)
104 Visitors from down the street (13. may)
105 Each night I dream of home (Lochley 2, virus exists)
106 The well of forever
110 Patterns of the soul (use virus)
109 Path of sorrows (a lot is revealed)
112 Rules of the game (Lochley 3)
107 The long road
Dates puts 108 first, then 102 four months later and 104 in may.
Uniforms puts the necessary episode 113 before the black episodes, and those should be finished before returning to grey and red. JMS internal order of the black episodes is ok, but I see no reason to put grey episodes in beetween, if its not to send a message to TNT that I`m pissed, but they won`t notice so why bother.
The nanotech virus is invented in 102, mentioned in 105 and used in 110.
The Lochley Gideon relation starts in 111 with dinner, continues in 105 with a date and further evolves in 112.
To see examples of Gideon not leaving anybody behind before Dureena talks about it in 109 that episode should come towards the end.
Gideons box puts 103 up before 109 where we see how he gets it.
The suspense is best kept about Gideons connection to Cerberus if 101 is in the middle and 109 late.
If we then forgets about the june date shown, which I dont`t notice anyway, decide that dinner and a date are different things and that the black uniforms disappears offscreen, we have it.
By writing all this relations on post-its and juggle them around, and then place the not related episodes 107, 106 and 110 so that the Galen heavy episodes alternate, we arrive at a useful order, like this:
108 War zone (if its in, its here, january)
111 Ruling from the tomb (Lochley 1)
103 Racing the night (box 1)
101 The needs of Earth (Cerberus mentioned)
102 The memory of war (virus 1, 4 months later)
104 Visitors from down the street (13. may)
105 Each night I dream of home (Lochley 2, virus exists)
106 The well of forever
110 Patterns of the soul (use virus)
109 Path of sorrows (a lot is revealed)
112 Rules of the game (Lochley 3)
107 The long road
M
MOmega
Guest
I think your order doesn't contain "113 Appearances and Other Deceits" (uniform change). But I guess it can be places between 111 and 103 in your order. What do you think?
