EpDis: Objects At Rest

Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for Objects At Rest
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for Objects At Rest

As we approach the end of Babylon 5 in our EpDis series of threads, I thought I'd just go ahead and say that we won't end here. I intend to continue on and do a thread for each of the telemovies as well as for the Crusade episodes.

If only they would have had alcohol on Minbar, for visiting dignitaries, ...special occasions like Londo's visit.

KoshN said:

If only they would have had alcohol on Minbar, for visiting dignitaries, ...special occasions like Londo's visit.

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I've always thought the "no alcohol" thing was a little phoney. So, they don't have a bottle of Jim Beam in the back room, but certainly they would have near-100% ethyl alcohol, for use for any number of things, and without de-naturants such as we use. They could have put that in some fruit juice, or something, and easily given Londo a drink.

I'd say that prudishness was a more likely real reason for not giving him a drink. If only they had known why he needed it! He should have known to bring his own bottle(s). Any ordinary alkie would have.

I'm not sure the Keeper would have allowed it into the luggage.

Jade Jaguar said:

If only they had known why he needed it!

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TRUE!!!

Jade Jaguar said:

He should have known to bring his own bottle(s). Any ordinary alkie would have.

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The Drakh, Shiv'kala, was watching him. Remember the conversation back on his ship as it was leaving? Any alcohol Londo would have been able to drink, would have to have been supplied outside of the Drakh's control, on Minbar.

KoshF and KoshN, why would they let him have it on Centauri Prime, but not let him take it with him? Wouldn't they have eliminated it there, or at least kept him away from it, on CP as well, if they had fully realized the danger?

Jade Jaguar said:

KoshF and KoshN, why would they let him have it on Centauri Prime, but not let him take it with him? Wouldn't they have eliminated it there, or at least kept him away from it, on CP as well, if they had fully realized the danger?

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They have less control over Londo on Minbar than they do in their immediate presence on Londo's ship. A drink with dinner would be part of perfectly acceptable behavior for Londo. In fact, Londo not having a drink with dinner would look positively strange for all those who know him, and John and Delenn KNOW Londo. The Drakh probably figured that there would be no alcohol available to Londo on Minbar because of the Minbari reaction to alcohol, and hence it was relatively safe to let him go there.

Remember, they want him to deliver the Keeper, but don't want to raise suspicions by having Londo not acting like Londo, and we all know that Londo drinks.

That still doesn't explain why they let him have alcohol on Centauri Prime, if they realized the danger. Also, he could have gotten drunk, and hidden a bottle in his luggage, before leaving. I'm sure he is clever enough to do that, if only for a contingency plan.

Perhaps he did, but didn't realize that the Keeper would know what he had done once he sobered up. In that case the Keeper would have alerted the Drakh, who would have quickly and efficiently removed the alcohol.

SPOILERS FOR CENTAURI PRIME TRILOGY:

On Centauri Prime the desire to have Londo act normal would have been almost stronger, as there were those who knew him there. In the books and short stories the Drakh are truly paranoid about keeping their secret.

Moreover, they've got those implaced nukes all over the place, and were within range to trigger them if necessary. On Minbar they had to be more careful, being too far from CP to trigger the explosives right away. (And they were nearly done in by Delenn's vision/latent telepathy/whatever, anyway. If only she'd gotten more information...)

Jade Jaguar said:

That still doesn't explain why they let him have alcohol on Centauri Prime, if they realized the danger. Also, he could have gotten drunk, and hidden a bottle in his luggage, before leaving. I'm sure he is clever enough to do that, if only for a contingency plan.

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I always suspected that perhaps he had attempted to get inebriated prior to arriving on Minbar, but had not consumed enough alcohol to put the keeper under (on Centauri Prime, Londo has access to plenty of alcohol, on a ship he has a more limited supply). I thought that is why Delenn semi saw the Keeper... because it was only just tipsy enough to be starting to lose it's ability to remain cloaked...

Jade Jaguar said:

KoshF and KoshN, why would they let him have it on Centauri Prime, but not let him take it with him? Wouldn't they have eliminated it there, or at least kept him away from it, on CP as well, if they had fully realized the danger?

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Why would they bother? On CP, they have the place wired with nukes. He can get as drunk as he wants, he still can't do anything there while they have that hanging over him. The dinner on Minbar was probably going to be his best (if not only) ever chance to do something outside the control of the Drakh.

Good stuff! Gets a B from me.

I liked this episode! It's the scene between Lennier and Sheridan that makes it for me. I remember the first time I saw it. I was so shocked to see Lennier just standing there, looking around...struggling with the decision of whether or not to help him, and was speechless as I watched him leave. I know he went back but I just could not believe it.

Boxie said:

I liked this episode! It's the scene between Lennier and Sheridan that makes it for me. I remember the first time I saw it. I was so shocked to see Lennier just standing there, looking around...struggling with the decision of whether or not to help him, and was speechless as I watched him leave. I know he went back but I just could not believe it.

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IIRC, neither could Bill Mumy, believe it, that is.

I do not recall it from the Centauri Prime Trilogy but I just wonder when Sheridan ever got around to remembering that he saw Londo's keeper in WWE. Granted, Sheridan thought he was avoiding that particular future by going against Dellen's advice, but once he learned about his 20 years to live, the wheels should have started turning in his head.

More closure in this episode - we find out for whom G'Kar left that recorded message. Ta'Lon is a great choice as his replacement! Then comes the next replacement - Dr. Hobbes. Interesting choice, as the one with whom Franklin probably had the most disagreements. Nice when someone can see farther than that to recognize the true worth of a person.

Garibaldi also chooses replacements - not for himself, but for the fired board members. He too wants those who will stand up, against him if necessary. Good for him!

Sheridan is saying his farewells too. I got a kick out of the X-Files reference, whether intentional or not - "What's out there? The truth." And Lochley speaks for us all when she says, "This place grows on you." Delenn's words upon leaving, "Our souls are part of this place."

Zack says he'll be there when they turn the lights off - prophetic, iirc, isn't it?

I love that look into C&C from the White Star, with everyone lined up. It's touching when Lochley and Sheridan exchange salutes.

Then comes the chance event that brings on Lennier's betrayal. He doesn't get the opportunity to rectify his mistake, as Sheridan rescues himself. We see him change his mind and know that he came back out of a good motive, but Sheridan has his justified doubts. "There has to be a price." Lennier did step over the line. However, I have the greatest admiration for Sheridan, who keeps the secret and saves face - not only Lennier's but also his and Delenn's. It would have been a very inauspicious start to have that become known.

Ah, Londo - Emperor Mollari, that is. He comes because he is sent, with evil intentions on the part of the Drakh. But he genuinely enjoys seeing his friends again. Apparently the Drakh realize that alcohol is disadvantageous for the Keeper, since they rarely allow it to him.

Sheridan's recorded message for his child is a very poignant way to end the episode, especially since the visuals show the others. It's hard for me, the viewer, to let go of B5 and the characters I've come to love, echoing their own reluctance.

I so much expected to see that new lineup on C&C on Crusade, and was so disappointed when I didn't. You might guess that, from my avatar...

Jade Jaguar said:

That still doesn't explain why they let him have alcohol on Centauri Prime, if they realized the danger. Also, he could have gotten drunk, and hidden a bottle in his luggage, before leaving. I'm sure he is clever enough to do that, if only for a contingency plan.

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Remember though that sobriety is actually considered a "vice" among Centauri (the Regent's "only vice" as Londo had put it). Their spiritual beliefs are bacchinalian in nature. So not only would Londo arouse some curiosity among his acquaintances on Centauri Prime, but quitting drink would actually be a little scandalous, and everyone would be looking at him more closely. And as KoshFan said, the Drakh were very paranoid about anything looking out of place and arousing curiosity that could go places they didn't want it to.

In the Centauri Trilogy, the Drakh didn't need the Keeper awake and monitoring constantly to ensure their general will (and occasional specific instructions) was kept. The threat of them finding out what he'd done after the fact was enough. He was also effectively kept out of the loop on a lot of things, so there weren't too many beans he could spill anyway.

If you haven't read the trilogy, read it if you can find the books. I'll just say that the way the Drakh orchestrated events and actions on Centauri Prime was tragically fascinating--subtle yet thorough, and for the most part didn't even require Keepers on the various players, or even direct communications from the Drakh to them (most of them never knew they were there).

Lousy_Dodgers said:

I do not recall it from the Centauri Prime Trilogy but I just wonder when Sheridan ever got around to remembering that he saw Londo's keeper in WWE. Granted, Sheridan thought he was avoiding that particular future by going against Dellen's advice, but once he learned about his 20 years to live, the wheels should have started turning in his head.

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If he ever did put two and two together, it never says.

Which is something I've wondered about too. The Rangers seemed to know about keepers, as Marcus spotted the one on Captain Jack (not sure if he knew its nature though, but its nature was revealed by Franklin's examination of it, and Captain Jack telling them what he knew about it). You'd think that Sheridan, curious "collector of secrets" that he is, would have done some digging to find out what it was he'd seen in his "time jump" experience, maybe found out what intelligence the Rangers had on these (and we know from the CT that the Technomages, or at least Galen, knew what they were too), and begun wondering if Londo had already had this "Keeper" on him from the out-of-character things he was doing (or that were being done in his name). Maybe not investigating all this before "Objects at Rest", but some time in the next several years. Maybe even figuring out that the Drakh (who 5 years later would attack Earth) were hiding out on Centauri Prime. But none of that seemed to happen from anything I saw or read.

I'm sort of surprised to see Boxie upthread say that the Sheridan/Lennier scene is what made the episode for them. I like to pretend it never happened We've been discussing it so much in the other threads, I have very little left to say about it, other than once again: It doesn't fit with the character. Not even if you consider Delenn's "explanation" about how there are moments when we are not ourselves. Another interesting thing we haven't yet discussed is how Delenn mentions that in Lennier's diary, he talked about how he think that Delenn's relationship with Sheridan is a mistake. This is .. odd. I get that he is jealous, but surely he can see that they are well suited to one another?

That bit sort of overshadows the whole episode for me, although it is really quite nice, otherwise.... More endings.... And some scary Keeper foreshadowing. It's good stuff.

I love that Ta'Lon is the new Narn ambassador, and Dr. Hobbes the new Chief of Staff of medlab. They are both characters I really like. However, what is the deal on this show with people picking their own replacements? I commented on this when Dr. Franklin was offered Dr. Kyle's old job at Earth Dome in "The Ragged Edge". Here we see Dr. Franklin not only picking his own replacement, but offering her the job on the day he is leaving. It's more than a little bit weird.

I love all the goodbyes. It's all very sad.