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vacantlook April 16th 07 06:11

EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for The Legend of the Rangers
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for The Legend of the Rangers

GaribaldisHair April 16th 07 08:25

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Looked at as a piece of standalone TVSF LotR was actually pretty good. Looked at as a part of B5 I was disappointed. I thought it had some good ideas (and some bad ones, whether forced on the production team or otherwise) but just failed to gel them together into anything resembling the sort of quality we had from 5 years of the original show.

That said, I do pull it out occasionally, watch and (as long as I disengage my B5 level expectations) enjoy it.

Overall, an everage from me.

Babylon5fan07 April 16th 07 11:43

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GaribaldisHair (Post 294737)
Looked at as a piece of standalone TVSF LotR was actually pretty good. Looked at as a part of B5 I was disappointed. I thought it had some good ideas (and some bad ones, whether forced on the production team or otherwise) but just failed to gel them together into anything resembling the sort of quality we had from 5 years of the original show.

That said, I do pull it out occasionally, watch and (as long as I disengage my B5 level expectations) enjoy it.

Overall, an everage from me.

I haven't quite gotten to that episode yet...even though I've seen all 5 seasons with the movies twice already my best friend bought me the Legends of the Rangers for last Christmas so I'm going to hold off watching it until I complete watching the series on my own again..(on my own I just have to watch The Fall of Night in 2nd season then season 3) of course I will be watching all the shows again with my wife and best friend. I want to keep the lineage that's why I'm holding off.
Alex

Sindatur April 16th 07 14:07

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Eh...I think if it wasn't for the whole weapons fiasco, and it had gone to series, we would have seen much more in LotR. The Gathering, viewed by itself, is certainly no stellar movie (Heck, some of us are afraid of showing it to potential B5 converts as a first episode), but, viewed as part of the 6 year arc, gains much more appreciation from me.

RW7427 April 16th 07 14:32

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
I loved it! :D

KoshN April 16th 07 21:38

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
This is the only "F" (Failure) I've given to any episode or movie in the B5 universe. It almost makes it up to the level of "D" (Poor) because of Dulann, Na'Feel, Firell and David. The only other things to get an "F" from me are Dell #4 and Dell #5.

torkste April 17th 07 07:34

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
I gave it a B.

When I think back on The Gathering, I remember buying it on vhs i Norway way back when, as a movie, and at the time I knew nothing of plans for a TV serie.
I watched it several times, didn't like it that much.
This was when vhs tapes were expensive, and numerous tapes with so-so movies on it, got a tape strip so the tape could be re-recorded.
Somehow The Gathering survived, probably because it was SF and had aliens in it, and years later I got hooked when B5 was shown on TV.

Then LOTR came, and it can be looked at from different angles.
Was it Great ? Maybe not, but it was ok.
Was the targeting system silly, maybe, but to me that is not important.
Why a B ?
To me it was the chance to start a new series, taking place before the aborted Crusade, planned with a 5 year arc, that would catch up to the events in Crusade, and hopefully answer a lot of questions.
And had events happened a little different (you Americans sure a crazy when it comes to sport events), the Nielsen rating may have been good enough to launch the series.

hypatia April 17th 07 15:08

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
I am not sure if this is true at all or not, but:

I kind of got the impression that another factor in Sci-Fi's not adopting "Rangers" was their programming shift at the time. That was back when they wanted more "psychics talking to the dead" and stuff.

But yea, the ratings competition certainly didn't help.

darth_librarian April 17th 07 15:27

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Funny that. With BSG and numerous Stargates they seem to like the space shows now ...

KoshN April 17th 07 20:46

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by darth_librarian (Post 294848)
Funny that. With BSG and numerous Stargates they seem to like the space shows now ...

Well, they cancelled SG-1, so after these last 10 episodes (205-214) air, all that's left is SG-A of the Stargate franchise on The Sci-Fi Channel.

hypatia April 17th 07 21:07

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by darth_librarian (Post 294848)
Funny that. With BSG and numerous Stargates they seem to like the space shows now ...

Yea, but I think it was about the same time when Bonnie Hammer announced the "new vision" for Sci-fi. I could be mistaken.

And didn't SG-1 have quite a good run? Best not to run a series until it's stale. The only reason I think Dr. Who can get away with it is that the Doctor changes over time.

Sindatur April 17th 07 21:24

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 294872)
Well, they cancelled SG-1, so after these last 10 episodes (205-214) air, all that's left is SG-A of the Stargate franchise on The Sci-Fi Channel.


And the two Stargate Movies, which will likely be aired on SciFi as well as released on DVD

Telepath April 17th 07 21:53

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
I actually gave this one an "A". I loved the wonderful new atmosphere and looks, the music was neat, and I think many B5ers underestimate JMS when they think he just pulled another super race outta his sleeves. LotR takes place during the 20-year period beginning with 2261, when Delenn says that the two great wars afterward would be the Telepath War and the Drakh War - the Hand is mentioned nowhere. Now my guess is the Liandra would have gone into another dimension, or the Hand was a means of the Drakh to destabilize the Alliance - or their new masters, after the Shadows were gone. Not enough info to judge conclusively or condemn JMS prematurely. Loved the rangers theme, too. And it had G'Kar... oh well, here you go.

The movie itself deserves a B grade, but since most of the other B5 movies sucked, I upgrade it to an A.

KoshN April 17th 07 23:50

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 294880)
And the two Stargate Movies, which will likely be aired on SciFi as well as released on DVD

Why do you think they'll be aired on The Sci-Fi Channel? Was this Sci-Fi's reaction to fan uproar over the cancellation? I thought it was going to be straight-to-DVD, and not on The Sci-Fi Channel.





Quote:

Originally Posted by Telepath (Post 294886)
I actually gave this one an "A". I loved the wonderful new atmosphere and looks, the music was neat, and I think many B5ers underestimate JMS when they think he just pulled another super race outta his sleeves.

The music sounded like generic "adventure" stuff, to me. I honestly don't know how anybody could rate this thing an "A." Compared to B5, it looked like an amateur production. The Ranger edict of "We do not retreat for any reason." was ridiculous. This thing looked like a saturday morning cartoon with live actors replacing the animation.


Quote:

LotR takes place during the 20-year period beginning with 2261,
TLaDiS (the Rangers pilot) is set "just under 3 years after the events of 'Objects at Rest.'"
Ref. http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countr...de/117.html#JS
So, TLaDiS is set ~October~November 2265, a little over a year before A Call to Arms. That would probably make the planned 5-year TV show (B5:LotR) take place 1/2266-12/2270, or a one year shift before Crusade. I thought B5:LotR (pilot through planned year five of the series) took place after the Telepath War. In "Objects in Motion (12/2262)" Lyta was going to give Garibaldi two years, so she would have come back to remove his block and fight the war ~12/2264. In TLaDiS, G'Kar said Lyta's "gone now." (i.e. dead), and she died in the Telepath War. In TLaDiS, nobody mentions anything about the Telepath War going on at the time. I think the Telepath War took place in 2265, and it was over by the time TLaDiS happened.


Quote:

The movie itself deserves a B grade
There were parts of this movie that sucked like nothing has ever sucked before. Parts of this movie could put black holes to shame.


Quote:

most of the other B5 movies sucked
So that means three of the following sucked?
In the Beginning
The Gathering
A Call to Arms
Thirdspace
The River of Souls.

IMDb
In the Beginning: Arithmetic mean = 7.9 (2,399 votes)
The Gathering: Arithmetic mean = 7.3 (3,073 votes)
A Call to Arms: Arithmetic mean = 7.2 (1,395 votes)
Thirdspace: Arithmetic mean = 6.9 (1,154 votes)
The River of Souls: Arithmetic mean = 6.5 (967 votes)
To Live and Die in Starlight: Arithmetic mean = 6.2 (848 votes)

Note what's in last place.

Telepath April 18th 07 10:04

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

So that means three of the following sucked?
In the Beginning
The Gathering
A Call to Arms
Thirdspace
The River of Souls.

IMDb
In the Beginning: Arithmetic mean = 7.9 (2,399 votes)
The Gathering: Arithmetic mean = 7.3 (3,073 votes)
A Call to Arms: Arithmetic mean = 7.2 (1,395 votes)
Thirdspace: Arithmetic mean = 6.9 (1,154 votes)
The River of Souls: Arithmetic mean = 6.5 (967 votes)
To Live and Die in Starlight: Arithmetic mean = 6.2 (848 votes)

Note what's in last place.
Hi KoshN, I hope that's nothing personal... everyone his opinion, yes? :)

To comment on your arguments: I do not care for other people's opinion so much as others might do, so I don't care what's in last place.

I think ItB sucked flat out because it ruined suspension of disbelief by stretching coincidences too far so that it became fiction that is perceived as fiction. River of Souls was awful, as was A Call to Arms (Dureena could have sprung out of a D&D adventure). You got your three movies that sucked, imo.

But that's no discussion of course - you got your reasons for hating some movies, I got mine for rejecting others :)

raw_bean April 18th 07 10:05

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Craziness, craziness!

People voting LotR 'A', and In The Beginning 'F'! Are we in Bizzaro-world or something? Me am no confused!

I can't believe ItB has more 'Failure' votes than LotR, even if one of them was admitted as a joke!

Telepath April 18th 07 12:07

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

TLaDiS (the Rangers pilot) is set "just under 3 years after the events of 'Objects at Rest.'"
Ref. http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countr...de/117.html#JS
So, TLaDiS is set ~October~November 2265, a little over a year before A Call to Arms. That would probably make the planned 5-year TV show (B5:LotR) take place 1/2266-12/2270, or a one year shift before Crusade. I thought B5:LotR (pilot through planned year five of the series) took place after the Telepath War. In "Objects in Motion (12/2262)" Lyta was going to give Garibaldi two years, so she would have come back to remove his block and fight the war ~12/2264. In TLaDiS, G'Kar said Lyta's "gone now." (i.e. dead), and she died in the Telepath War. In TLaDiS, nobody mentions anything about the Telepath War going on at the time. I think the Telepath War took place in 2265, and it was over by the time TLaDiS happened.
Yes... I just wanted to point out that between the end of season 4 and SiL, there was no Hand War occurring in the galaxy putting the shadows to shame. Speaking of which...

Quote:

Parts of this movie could put black holes to shame.
LoL! :) Admittedly true... I hated the Liandra weapons system. And the fact how G'Kar relays the story of the force of light and force of darkness... it seems awkward in the B5 universe. But perhaps the series would have answered that question.

Quote:

I can't believe ItB has more 'Failure' votes than LotR
The problem with ItB is that it's utterly incredible to me. No matter how good it is in all its constituent parts, I think it ruins the B5 canon by stretching credibility beyond the breaking point.

RMcD April 18th 07 13:23

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 294893)

IMDb
In the Beginning: Arithmetic mean = 7.9 (2,399 votes)
The Gathering: Arithmetic mean = 7.3 (3,073 votes)
A Call to Arms: Arithmetic mean = 7.2 (1,395 votes)
Thirdspace: Arithmetic mean = 6.9 (1,154 votes)
The River of Souls: Arithmetic mean = 6.5 (967 votes)
To Live and Die in Starlight: Arithmetic mean = 6.2 (848 votes)

Note what's in last place.

I think the figure that really says it all is:

Babylon 5: Arithmetic mean = 8.8 (1,605 votes)

I think that's about right - somehow none of the movies seemed to manage to rise as high as the standards that had already been set within the series itself. Partly I think it may just be that they came too late in the cycle - remember that with the exception of the Gathering, all of them were filmed after Sleeping in Light, and after the season 5 pickup, at which point B5 arguably didn't have anything left to prove.

Sindatur April 18th 07 14:04

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 294893)
Why do you think they'll be aired on The Sci-Fi Channel? Was this Sci-Fi's reaction to fan uproar over the cancellation? I thought it was going to be straight-to-DVD, and not on The Sci-Fi Channel.

It's SciFi channel's show. All their "Straight to DVD" stuff ends up playing on the network.

GaribaldisHair April 18th 07 14:42

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 294954)
It's SciFi channel's show. All their "Straight to DVD" stuff ends up playing on the network.

Yeah .. since they've paid for it already, why wouldn't they show it.

And as far as the ItB stretching credulity to breaking point, I can see where that comes from but the problem is ItB is already loaded down with characters, and adding more would only confuse things ... not to mention probably stretch the budget to breaking point.

I am prepared to forgive the stretching because in all other respects I think it is a great piece of work.

And to get back on topic. LotR had some good ideas that were significantly undercooked, precisely because it was a backdoor pilot. If it had gone to series and these ideas had had the chance to be explored more fully then I think the movie would be looked back at more fondly. Sure it had some silly ones (the weapons thing!) but that would undoubtedly have disappeared come a series ... surely!

Unfortunately I never saw The Gathering as a standalone as it wasn't shown on UKTV until well into the run (possibly between S1 and S2 if memory serves). If I had, I am not convinced I would have much higher an opinion of it than I do of LotR. The Gathering (original version) is great in the context of leading into the series, but as a standalone it is fairly forgettable ,,, but without anything jaw-droppingly stupid.

KoshN April 18th 07 16:01

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Telepath (Post 294941)
To comment on your arguments: I do not care for other people's opinion so much as others might do, so I don't care what's in last place.

I was going for more of a consensus, i.e. not just my opinion but that of hundreds or thousands of others.


Quote:

Originally Posted by raw_bean (Post 294942)
Craziness, craziness!
People voting LotR 'A', and In The Beginning 'F'! Are we in Bizzaro-world or something? Me am no confused!

I can't believe ItB has more 'Failure' votes than LotR, even if one of them was admitted as a joke!

Yeah, things are 180 degrees out of phase alright.




Quote:

Originally Posted by RMcD (Post 294952)
I think the figure that really says it all is:
Babylon 5: Arithmetic mean = 8.8 (1,605 votes)

I think that's about right - somehow none of the movies seemed to manage to rise as high as the standards that had already been set within the series itself. Partly I think it may just be that they came too late in the cycle - remember that with the exception of the Gathering, all of them were filmed after Sleeping in Light, and after the season 5 pickup, at which point B5 arguably didn't have anything left to prove.

And that JMS is better in loooong form storytelling, series over the course of years, not movies, at least as far as B5 is concerned. Maybe it's that as B5 fans, we're used to the long story and the short, encapsulated story of a movie in the B5 universe just doesn't do it for us anymore.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 294954)
It's SciFi channel's show. All their "Straight to DVD" stuff ends up playing on the network.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaribaldisHair (Post 294957)
Yeah .. since they've paid for it already, why wouldn't they show it.

The Sci-Fi Channel itself is financing the Stargate SG-1 movies? That's why I asked if it was their reaction to fan uproar over the cancellation (like The Peacekeeper Wars was to Farscape), but nobody responded. I thoiught The Sci-Fi Channel just cancelled and was done with SG-1, and maybe NBC/Universal (the parent company) was coming through with money for the movies.

Stargate: Continuum (2008) (TV)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0929629/
Company credits:
Production Companies
Stargate SG-1 Production (II) Inc.
Distributors
Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (MGM) (2007) (USA) (DVD)
Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (MGM) (2007) (USA) (all media)

Stargate: The Ark of Truth (2008) (TV)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0942903/
Company credits:
Production Companies
Kawoosh! Productions VII
MGM Home Entertainment

...but since it's mentioned as "TV," I guess it'll be on The Sci-Fi Channel and it'll get added to the list of distributors.


Quote:

Originally Posted by GaribaldisHair (Post 294957)
And as far as the ItB stretching credulity to breaking point, I can see where that comes from but the problem is ItB is already loaded down with characters, and adding more would only confuse things ... not to mention probably stretch the budget to breaking point.

I am prepared to forgive the stretching because in all other respects I think it is a great piece of work.

I see the stretching credulity as a minor problem as far as ItB is concerned.



Quote:

And to get back on topic. LotR had some good ideas that were significantly undercooked, precisely because it was a backdoor pilot. If it had gone to series and these ideas had had the chance to be explored more fully then I think the movie would be looked back at more fondly. Sure it had some silly ones (the weapons thing!) but that would undoubtedly have disappeared come a series ... surely!
That's the problem. JMS has to learn to come out of the box and make s damned strong standalone movie, not banking on being able to fix the problems in the future, because if the problems stand out, bigtime, in the pilot, there's a good chance that there will BE no future. That's why I'm nervous when it comes to our banking the future of all things B5 on a single movie (TV or feature). That's not his strong suit.



Quote:

Unfortunately I never saw The Gathering as a standalone as it wasn't shown on UKTV until well into the run (possibly between S1 and S2 if memory serves). If I had, I am not convinced I would have much higher an opinion of it than I do of LotR. The Gathering (original version) is great in the context of leading into the series, but as a standalone it is fairly forgettable ,,, but without anything jaw-droppingly stupid.
Key words: ....but without anything jaw-droppingly stupid.
TLaDiS: "We do not retreat for any reason." a.k.a. Suicide as a matter of policy.
TLaDiS: the weapons system
TLaDiS: the idiotic, bad guy, flunkies.

The only thing that comes close to jaw-droppingly stupid in The Gathering, was the "zoo" scene (which was cut for the TNT version).

Galahad April 18th 07 16:10

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 294965)
The only thing that comes close to jaw-droppingly stupid in The Gathering, was the "zoo" scene (which was cut for the TNT version).

And at a push... frictionless Carnellian bedsheets.

Man am I glad that B5 didn't waste too much time inventing unseen races who provide gimicky technology. the Carnellian bedsheets wer one... but they didn't go on ad infinitum.

Presumable "frictionless" was an exaggeration if people weren't to be floating out of their beds and landing smack on the floor every night.

Telepath April 18th 07 16:26

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

JMS has to learn to come out of the box and make s damned strong standalone movie, not banking on being able to fix the problems in the future, because if the problems stand out, bigtime, in the pilot, there's a good chance that there will BE no future. That's why I'm nervous when it comes to our banking the future of all things B5 on a single movie (TV or feature). That's not his strong suit.
That's true. As you say, JMS is great at long-term stories involving character changes and building tension.

Concerning LotR, the rule "never retreat from battle" is stupid alright, but it has occurred on earth in various traditions, and it's JMS' universe after all. Yet I do not think Sinclair would have created a rule as absurd as that... perhaps Minbari tradition corrupted his teachings, it happens (it already happened in the first war against the shadows, with that radical group mentioned In Valen's Name... I forgot its name). [EDIT: I seem to have forgot that Delenn was Entil'Zha for some time then... she could have changed such a rule. As things stand, it really seems stupid enough. Even suggesting that such a rule might make an enemy think twice before engaging ranger ships is a poor explanation, so... you're right. Not very logical.]

The weapons system: ditto. It's crap.

The bad guys: What was wrong about them? That they looked like executioners? I think they were hooded and their voice was modulated because there was not much terror underneath. I think there was a lot of fake involved... Sad that there was no series.

Well, tastes are different (and hundreds and thousands of different tastes won't change mine ;) ) But since I now see your point with some obvious flaws of LotR, I can understand why you would classify it as a failure. Yet I still think that the merits outweigh the flaws - and I still like it in comparison to other B5 feature films.

Recoil April 18th 07 17:07

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 294872)
Well, they cancelled SG-1, so after these last 10 episodes (205-214) air, all that's left is SG-A of the Stargate franchise on The Sci-Fi Channel.


You can't count that against them. That show was on the air for TEN YEARS. I don't think I have ever seen a Sci-Fi show run close to that long (in the US, so hold off on the Doctor Who stuff please).


And frankly, they should have pulled the plug a while ago. Their series "reboot" with the new enemy and new team isn't working as well as it should. Hell, it took them a long time to go almost no where with their first enemy. The show as a whole never really impressed me that much, so I was very surprised it lasted 10 seasons.

Can't knock SciFi channel for cancelling SG1 though, it had more than its run, and there are possibly a couple movies to come. Also, Stargate Atlantis (which is MUCH better IMO) is still running strong.

But Kirbu is right. Back when Rangers aired, SciFi wanted to get away from Aliens and Sci Fi. Well gee whiz. When they got back to their roots their ratings went up again. Imagine that!

Legan April 18th 07 22:36

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
The Scifi channel deserves the bad rep. Stargate SG-1 was cancelled prematurely. The Ori story arc should have lasted at least three seasons. Also, scifi canceled 'farscape' after season 4 after they declared an unprecedented 2-year renewal after season 3. They flat-out reneged, lied, cheated...whatever you want to call it. Their judgment is incredibly poor regarding programing.

Legend of the Rangers was a good 'concept' that was badly executed. I was disappointed with the filming and the shallow story. It was like they rushed a good core idea but didn't care to fill it out or interweave it into the B5 canon. The weapons system wasn't well thought. A virtual interface is a good idea, but someone squirming around against a green screen then showing the ship shooting doesn't cut it. There has to be a correlation between the gunner's movements and the weapons fire. There was absolutely none.

As for the Hand, it felt like a copout rather than an extention of the B5 story. The Ori in stargate made sense, the Hand didn't. I like B5 and the rangers are a good, no, great platform for a series, but somewhere along the line it got reallllllllllly screwed up.

Oh, and stargate didn't originate at scifi. It came from showtime after a five-year run there. Scifi has only had it for five seasons.

KoshN April 19th 07 23:41

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
What? I did a big detailed reply to Galahad, Telepath and Recoil, and it's "Poof!" gone????? :mad: :mad: :mad: It was there at around Noon when I left.

Recoil April 20th 07 00:08

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
"We live for The One, we die for The One, but we don't die stupidly"

F-

hypatia April 20th 07 01:25

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
I have to confess, that line made me cringe when I heard it.

Reminds me a bit, now, of a rather notable line from another film:
"Because all you of Earth are idiots. Stupid! Stupid!"

;)

KoshN April 20th 07 03:01

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Recoil (Post 295032)
"We live for The One, we die for The One, but we don't die stupidly"

F-

And that's one of the better lines from TLaDiS. :lol:

KoshN April 20th 07 03:02

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad (Post 294966)
And at a push... frictionless Carnellian bedsheets.

Man am I glad that B5 didn't waste too much time inventing unseen races who provide gimicky technology. the Carnellian bedsheets wer one... but they didn't go on ad infinitum.

Presumable "frictionless" was an exaggeration if people weren't to be floating out of their beds and landing smack on the floor every night.


Oh, it was a throwaway line. No big deal.

KoshN April 20th 07 03:34

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Telepath (Post 294967)
That's true. As you say, JMS is great at long-term stories involving character changes and building tension.

Concerning LotR, the rule "never retreat from battle" is stupid alright, but it has occurred on earth in various traditions,

Not as a matter of policy. Maybe for a specific battle, but not as a standard method of operations.



Quote:

and it's JMS' universe after all. Yet I do not think Sinclair would have created a rule as absurd as that... perhaps Minbari tradition corrupted his teachings, it happens (it already happened in the first war against the shadows, with that radical group mentioned In Valen's Name... I forgot its name). [EDIT: I seem to have forgot that Delenn was Entil'Zha for some time then... she could have changed such a rule. As things stand, it really seems stupid enough. Even suggesting that such a rule might make an enemy think twice before engaging ranger ships is a poor explanation, so... you're right. Not very logical.]
Having a policy of "We never retreat for any reason." is idiotic, especially when you're stretched thin on personnel (young kids in relatively high positions, e.g. ship captains) and resources (e.g. Whitestars), is idiotic, and Delenn is no idiot.



Quote:

The bad guys: What was wrong about them?
They were stupid (required for the plot to work). They passed many chances to destroy the Liandra (but then the story would have been over.). They got suckered over and over again. Not the sharpest knives in the drawer.



Quote:

That they looked like executioners? I think they were hooded and their voice was modulated
No, that part worked OK.

KoshN April 20th 07 03:56

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Recoil (Post 294969)
You can't count that against them.

I'm not counting it against anybody. I was just saying that Sci-Fi cancelled SG-1, so soon all there will be is SG-A. I don't think that qualifies as "numerous Stargates" (shows not gates).


Quote:

And frankly, they should have pulled the plug a while ago. Their series "reboot" with the new enemy and new team isn't working as well as it should.
I think it's going fine. I've watched SG-1 Seasons 1 thru 9. I haven't had The Sci-Fi Channel since Dec. 2003, when Comcast (Pittsburgh, PA) moved the channel from Extended Basic to Digital, so I've watched since then via the DVD sets. I've come to accept both Ben Browder and Claudia Black in SG-1 :D , and am looking forward to the SG-1 Season 10 DVD Set coming out on July 24th.


Quote:

Hell, it took them a long time to go almost no where with their first enemy. The show as a whole never really impressed me that much, so I was very surprised it lasted 10 seasons.
I'm not surprised. They had and have an excellent cast and a very accessible show (easy to step into).

Quote:

Can't knock SciFi channel for cancelling SG1 though, it had more than its run, and there are possibly a couple movies to come.
I'm not knocking anybody. I'm just stating it as a fact. The Sci-Fi Channel cancelled SG-1, and so there soon will be only SG-A left, and that hardly counts as "numerous Stargates" (darth librarian's words).


Quote:

Also, Stargate Atlantis (which is MUCH better IMO) is still running strong.
I've seen SG-1 Seasons 1 thru 9, and the pilot episode of SG-A. Still haven't bought or rented the SG-A DVD Season Sets. I wasn't all that impressed with SG-A, though I'm happy to hear that Carter (Amanda Tapping) is going over to SG-A. I was disappointed that Jessica Steen did not continue in the role of Dr. Weir. I prefer Jessica Steen to Torri Higginson.

Legan April 20th 07 17:10

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 295053)
I prefer Jessica Steen to Torri Higginson.

An actor change for the same character is never a good thing, but Torri is definitely hotter than Jessica. No complaints there.

KoshN April 20th 07 17:23

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Legan (Post 295094)
An actor change for the same character is never a good thing, but Torri is definitely hotter than Jessica. No complaints there.

:eek: How long has it been since you got your eyes checked? You need to see an optometrist/opthamologist.:lol: Torri Higginson reminds me of "Number 1" (played by Majel Barrett) from the Star Trek pilot, i.e. not hot at all. Jessica's cute. :D

Recoil April 20th 07 19:13

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 295053)
I wasn't all that impressed with SG-A, though I'm happy to hear that Carter (Amanda Tapping) is going over to SG-A. I was disappointed that Jessica Steen did not continue in the role of Dr. Weir. I prefer Jessica Steen to Torri Higginson.

I think having Carter over there could make things interesting, but to me its a bit of a cop-out. The show is great on its own, no need to keep bleeding SG1 people into it.

And Jessica Steen was only "Dr Weir" for like, one episode, maybe two, in SG1. The very next SG1 season Torri jumped in her place and obviously made the transition to SG-A. Frankly, I think Torri was better from Day 1. I always liked her in that role over Jessica.

(and while it doesn't directly relate to that opinion, I think Torri is better looking too. :p )

KoshN April 20th 07 23:33

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Recoil (Post 295101)
I think having Carter over there could make things interesting, but to me its a bit of a cop-out. The show is great on its own, no need to keep bleeding SG1 people into it.

I don't care, because I like seeing Carter.


Quote:

And Jessica Steen was only "Dr Weir" for like, one episode, maybe two, in SG1. The very next SG1 season Torri jumped in her place and obviously made the transition to SG-A. Frankly, I think Torri was better from Day 1. I always liked her in that role over Jessica.

(and while it doesn't directly relate to that opinion, I think Torri is better looking too. :p )
Oh come on! I think some of you just like disagreeing with me, regardless of how you actually feel. :p

Gotta admit Torri doesn't look bad here:
http://scifipedia.scifi.com/images/f/f8/Weir1.jpg

I just realized we've strayed waaaaay off topic. :o

Recoil April 21st 07 06:28

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Dude, seriously. I liked Torri in that role better than Jessica Steen from the start. No joke.

KoshN April 22nd 07 04:58

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
Would have preferred to do this as an Edit, but I guess that time has passed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 295052)
Not as a matter of policy. Maybe for a specific battle, but not as a standard method of operations.

Having a policy of "We never retreat for any reason." is idiotic, especially when you're stretched thin on personnel (young kids in relatively high positions, e.g. ship captains) and resources (e.g. Whitestars), is idiotic, and Delenn is no idiot.


http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-16471
Bear in mind that there were only ever about a hundred, maybe a hundred and fifty whitestars built during the Shadow War. A LOT of those got wiped out during said war, so now you've got maybe 80 or so. You conserve your best ships for big jobs, you don't have them doing this kind of grunt work.



http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-16472
>Trained and experienced officers were in VERY
>short supply.

Exactly, and after the shadow war, a lot of higher ranking/experienced rangers were dead, leading to getting promoted earlier.

Also, the Liandra isn't like the Enterprise, it's more like a PT boat, and there's a huge difference between the captain of a PT boat and a captain of the John F. Kennedy, though both are technically captains on their vessels.

.
.
.

RMcD April 22nd 07 11:37

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
I agree that it's stupid, but just to play devil's advocate, maybe the policy of never retreating for any reason has migrated over from the Minbari warrior caste and hasn't yet been revised for the current state of affairs?

Where you have one third of a planet's population devoted to training and arming for war, and for most of their history used to enjoying total technological superiority, the idea of tactically retreating from combat might actually be a bit of a moot point, since your military resources are never exactly stretched, you have little chance of being killed, and there are plenty more warm bodies where you came from, all fully trained already.

Now if we assume that the Rangers recruit some of their members from the warrior caste, they're going to need to appear at least as fanatical and probably even more nuts just to distinguish themselves. In fact they're a bit like the Crusader Knights - their job is to throw themselves at the enemy in a religious frenzy. Seeing them get slaughtered for the rightness of their cause is okay, seeing them in retreat could break the morale of the army behind them. Seeing a lot of expensive military hardware go down with them is probably regrettable, but ultimately that's a problem for the accountants.

Actually I think that's two separate points.

fisheggs April 25th 07 00:04

Re: EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers
 
This was a "D" from me, mainly because I expected much more than was given, saved only because of G'Kar ( Andreas). While I recall some roots on the "never retreat" idiocy in the episode on "terror', the ranger who got beat up and had to go after the "bad guys", it was still stupid, IMHO.:p

I also really hated the main character to be named David: I'd reserve that name for David Sheridan, personal foible.:D


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