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-   -   EpDis: A Call To Arms (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=9908)

KoshN August 12th 09 17:03

Re: EpDis: A Call To Arms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 348516)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad (Post 348509)
I never understood such revulsion to the Crusade music. It was strange the first time through, but, I grew to appreciate it fit the new series perfectly

But therein lies a problem... when it's an established series, new music can grow on you (B5's music consistently changed but because in the first series it was dynamic, it hit the ground running). Crusade had no such advantage, it was something new and unusual from scratch and didn't really have a chance to grow on you in a single run.

It grew on me upon repeated watchings of the existing 13 Crusade episodes.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 348516)
It was strange, and perhaps a bit jarring, but, I never found it objectionable like so many did. I seen/heard many people absolutely horrified by it.

Horrified by it? In my experience, the people who've had the most negative and absolutely unshakeable opinion of somebody else's music, are musicians. It's also possible that people heard that the music was horrible, and adopted that opinion, to fit in, and join in on the bashing rather than stand up to it and maybe get bashed themselves. <shrug>


Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 348516)
Of course, I didn't loathe Byron's gang and their "We Will All Come Together In a Better Place..."

That one I can't stand. I just :rolleyes: and suffer through it.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 348516)
or the JMS written song that Dr. Franklin's Caitlin sang either.

That one I really liked. :)


Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 348516)
Byron's Gang in general I enjoyed being part of the series, because you were supposed to dislike their characters, where other people felt they really hurt the show tremendously.

Me, I don't like feckless characters, especially if they're supposed to be leaders. Never liked the actor (Robin Atkin Downes), either. On B5 he played Byron (feckless & passive), and Morann (a weasel, unlikeable Minbari). :p

dreamer August 16th 09 16:36

Re: EpDis: A Call To Arms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade Jaguar (Post 348523)
Chen's music was strange and jarring, and quite a change from Franke. But I liked it quite a bit, even though I don't like "industrial" music, which it resembles. I particularly liked it in the battle scenes.

I found it very out-of-place, but more importantly always very, very empty. It has absolutely no heart of any kind nor does it contribute any sense of feeling. It's more like "Hey, look at me! I'm here too! Making some weird noise and all! Enough with the picture, focus on me!"

Leaving aside the factory-set soundbank that Chen used and how it lacked everything in the sense of composition, his soundtrack for this movie really, really fell flat considering the huge events that took place and I just have to wonder how this crap got past anyone at any point of production. I mean... the hell?

Almost like replacing Williams' score of Star Wars with numb-tongued yodeling.

Heck, even that would be more entertaining.

KoshFan August 16th 09 17:53

Re: EpDis: A Call To Arms
 
If you'd replaced John Williams with yodeling, you'd never have heard of Star Wars. Those movies would be next to nothing without that score.

Music can make or break any movie or show.

Jade Jaguar August 16th 09 22:43

Re: EpDis: A Call To Arms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamer (Post 348850)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade Jaguar (Post 348523)
Chen's music was strange and jarring, and quite a change from Franke. But I liked it quite a bit, even though I don't like "industrial" music, which it resembles. I particularly liked it in the battle scenes.

I found it very out-of-place, but more importantly always very, very empty. It has absolutely no heart of any kind nor does it contribute any sense of feeling. It's more like "Hey, look at me! I'm here too! Making some weird noise and all! Enough with the picture, focus on me!"

Industrial and techno music generally strike me as "music without a heart," in fact, I call them 'music for androids.' But, although Chen's music resembles those genres, I found that it did have a soul, or a heart. I found that it DID contribute to the impact of the visuals. It did often strike me as empty, although probably not in the way you mean. Emptiness is the most profound aspect of space. Chen's battle music, to me, conjured images of massive mechanical things entering the vast emptiness of space. Very appropriate.

KoshN August 17th 09 02:55

Re: EpDis: A Call To Arms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade Jaguar (Post 348862)
Industrial and techno music generally strike me as "music without a heart," in fact, I call them 'music for androids.' But, although Chen's music resembles those genres, I found that it did have a soul, or a heart. I found that it DID contribute to the impact of the visuals. It did often strike me as empty, although probably not in the way you mean. Emptiness is the most profound aspect of space. Chen's battle music, to me, conjured images of massive mechanical things entering the vast emptiness of space. Very appropriate.

I just finished watching "A Call to Arms" in order to pay particular attention to the music. I found it to be grim, militaristic and mechanised, and that was fitting. I think that it lent the right tone to the movie. A lot of the music was discordant, but it was supposed to be. The movie didn't have a happy ending.

Overall, I like Chen's Crusade music better, but that was often more hopeful and upbeat, to match the Crusade episodes.

KoshFan August 17th 09 16:34

Re: EpDis: A Call To Arms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade Jaguar (Post 348862)
Industrial and techno music generally strike me as "music without a heart," in fact, I call them 'music for androids.'

Industrial I'm with you. Techno can have a soul, however; a small, simple, and extremely repetitive soul, but a soul.

Galahad August 17th 09 22:53

Re: EpDis: A Call To Arms
 
The reason the music sounded discordant was that it was using Eastern musical structure instead of Western there's more range... but it doesn't sound like it to our ears.

Estelyn May 1st 10 16:19

Re: EpDis: A Call To Arms
 
Hi! I just finished a B5 marathon, having purchased the box with the complete series and the movies. When I first saw the series back in the 90s, I was blown away by it, even though I couldn't hear the original voices and dialogues. (Like almost every production, it was translated and dubbed for German TV.) Ever since then I've wanted to be able to hear it in the original English version, and the DVDs now give me that option.

Enough introduction - now to this particular film: I think the visuals and the story are very good and agree that the music is probably the one factor that keeps it from finding the emotional reception that the series had. It's very percussive, with little harmony and almost no melody at all. That works well for battles etc., as it feels more like sound effects than music. At its best, it's "interesting", yet it doesn't appear to have the means for conveying deep emotions.

I've ordered the Crusade DVDs and can't remember enough about it to comment yet.

As to Sheridan's beard, well I like it. Early in the series he had rather a baby face, and his look by this time in the story arc is stronger, giving him the appearance of wisdom that suits his role as President.

Republibot 3.0 May 3rd 10 13:36

Re: EpDis: A Call To Arms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 360625)
Hi! I just finished a B5 marathon, having purchased the box with the complete series and the movies. When I first saw the series back in the 90s, I was blown away by it, even though I couldn't hear the original voices and dialogues. (Like almost every production, it was translated and dubbed for German TV.) Ever since then I've wanted to be able to hear it in the original English version, and the DVDs now give me that option.

Enough introduction - now to this particular film: I think the visuals and the story are very good and agree that the music is probably the one factor that keeps it from finding the emotional reception that the series had. It's very percussive, with little harmony and almost no melody at all. That works well for battles etc., as it feels more like sound effects than music. At its best, it's "interesting", yet it doesn't appear to have the means for conveying deep emotions.

I've ordered the Crusade DVDs and can't remember enough about it to comment yet.

As to Sheridan's beard, well I like it. Early in the series he had rather a baby face, and his look by this time in the story arc is stronger, giving him the appearance of wisdom that suits his role as President.

I actually really liked the music. I felt it gave the familiar old locations and characters an interesting detachment, like visiting your old school after years away and finding it's changed and isn't yours anymore, or perhaps like the impression of an outsider coming for the first time to a place you know well.

I *do* agree that the music kind of lost its way during the battle scenes in the second half of the movie, and it kind of becomes indistinguishable from the battle sound effects.

I bought the soundtrack album when it came out because I liked the music on the series, but curiously while I think the music mostly works on the show, it doesn't really work by itself.

K_Roon May 3rd 10 17:08

Re: EpDis: A Call To Arms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 348919)
Techno can have a soul, however; a small, simple, and extremely repetitive soul, but a soul.

Haha, I know this is an old post, but I am always incredulous at people's talk about "techno." As a trance, house, electro and progressive house DJ and long-time electronica fan I find that electronic music can contain so many different emotions, just like any other form of music. Electronic music is not so repetitive... Well it depends on the genre; house is pretty repetitive because it's meant purely for dancing, but trance is all about evolution and progression.

Tell me this piece doesn't stir up any emotion in you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iomMFeVirHg

What about this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJiRpWMvx90

And this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOrAlPE18mg

And finally probably the most beautiful song I have ever heard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bto5T0bAuWE

It is not music for androids; it is for humans, it is for dancing and listening to and emotional connection. Give it a chance before you judge it.

Battlestar May 3rd 10 22:53

Re: EpDis: A Call To Arms
 
I enjoyed the movie ALOT. IMHO it only trails In The Beginning in quality.

Republibot 3.0 May 5th 10 00:40

Re: EpDis: A Call To Arms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Battlestar (Post 360792)
I enjoyed the movie ALOT. IMHO it only trails In The Beginning in quality.

I prefered it to In The Beginning, myself.

Republibot 3.0 May 5th 10 00:45

Re: EpDis: A Call To Arms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by K_Roon (Post 360741)
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 348919)
Techno can have a soul, however; a small, simple, and extremely repetitive soul, but a soul.

Haha, I know this is an old post, but I am always incredulous at people's talk about "techno." As a trance, house, electro and progressive house DJ and long-time electronica fan I find that electronic music can contain so many different emotions, just like any other form of music. Electronic music is not so repetitive... Well it depends on the genre; house is pretty repetitive because it's meant purely for dancing, but trance is all about evolution and progression.

Tell me this piece doesn't stir up any emotion in you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iomMFeVirHg

What about this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJiRpWMvx90

And this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOrAlPE18mg

And finally probably the most beautiful song I have ever heard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bto5T0bAuWE

It is not music for androids; it is for humans, it is for dancing and listening to and emotional connection. Give it a chance before you judge it.

"he knew that there were those people who would always treat any attempt to create beauty as a personal attack." -- The Art Of Noise, 1999

Lennier's Tears May 14th 15 05:13

Re: EpDis: A Call To Arms
 
I just watched this for the first time in years. Many years! I don't always make it to the movies during my Babylon 5 re-watches, and if I do, I don't necessarily watch all of them. I can't say how long it's been since I watched A Call to Arms, exactly, but it was almost like watching it with new eyes. I've also still not watched Crusade, but that's up next :)

As a movie, I like this alright. I certainly like it a lot better than The River of Souls, but not as much as In the Beginning.

Re: Sheridan's hair and/or beard ... Doesn't remotely bother me. A man can change his hair/facial hair ... And I think he looks good with that particular combination (unlike that weird, almost mullet he had going on in the weeks leading up to Z'Ha'Dum. :p )

Re: The music ... Yea, I can see why that's controversial. When I watched this movie before, it didn't bother me. But when I watched today, it kept throwing me off. I kept thinking I heard an old-school cellphone go off, or some alarm or something. To be fair, I often have issues where I can't tell if something is supposed to be in the movie or the soundtrack ... Although I don't think that even happened on Babylon 5.

The effects are pretty good on this, I thought. There's a few less than perfect scenes ... The outdoor scenes for one. They're just a bit better than the Star Trek foam rocks we were just discussing in some other thread (I'd link but I don't recall which thread). There's a bit somewhere, where Sheridan taps a console, and it sort of moves, like the plastic that it is. But, the space stuff looks nice! And hey, new ships.

For the story, I think my main (minor, so minor) issue is with how everyone reacts when Sheridan first gets that message. Especially Garibaldi, who is SO paranoid and suspicious of everything. That same trick was used on him, and yet he just lets it go when Sheridan mysteriously stares at a blank screen for 20 minutes?

Also, a question about another minor detail: Two guys on the Excalibur bridge are wearing glasses. What's the deal with that? Enhanced console vision?

That's it for now ... I'm sure I'll be back when I think of other stuff ....


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